Would BB Be Elite If TB Had Not Been a Patriot?

Would BB have the same reputation as one of the best coaches of all time if he had not had TB?

  • 1- Yes. Belichick would have had the same success without Brady

    Votes: 1 4.3%
  • 2 - No Brady made Belichick, not the other way around. TB made Brady; BB did not make Brady

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 3 - It was the perfect storm: combo of coach and QB lead to all those championships

    Votes: 19 82.6%
  • 4- Brady would have all those championships with any other coach.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 5- BB having a losing record post-TB proves it was the player, not the coach who needs the credit

    Votes: 1 4.3%
  • 6- They would both have been elite.

    Votes: 2 8.7%

  • Total voters
    23
OBF, it looks like you and Mazz are soul sisters
The question missing is: Would TFB even been in NFL had BB not drafted him at #199. I suppose he could have been Mr. Irrelevant but who knows.
You are correct if not for BB Brady likely would never have gotten a shot in the NFL.
 
1. TB12 is the GOAT QB. and what he did in Tampa is straight out of a movie.
2. But the TB12 of 2007 and 2011 etc was not the same TB12 in 2000. Who taught TB12 how to be a pro? If a player improves 2X from where he started, does the HC not get any credit?
3. In an alternate universe, without BB, does TB12 even get drafted, and if he does get drafted, what other HC would have the balls to make a split-starter college-QB the starting NFL QB so soon?
4. BB was more than a defensive wizard who won Giants rings and turned around the Jets and Browns. The Patriots offense has reinvented itself multiple times (2007 option-routes, 2011 2TE, etc), that’s been via BB.
5. That 2003-2004 defense was so dominant, what are the chances BB still wins a ring by finding a different ball-control game-manager QB who doesn’t turn the ball over? (pretty high). BB showed in 2008 he could take a never-starter QB from college and turn that player into an eventual pro bowl attendee.

One tangential analogy for me is I’m a big Celtics fan of Bill Russell-Auerbach history. Russell was a transcendent talent. At the same time Russell probably doesn’t have the same success without the full support and organizational dynamics of Auerbach, especially in that historical societal climate/context. Similarly Auerbach doesn’t have the career he has without the centerpiece of the ultimate GOAT winner.
Tampa was bought and built just to fit what Brady had become. There are a number of quality QBs that would have had at least the same success there as Brady
 
you quoted me, i responded to your quoting of me.
What I was trying to point out is that regardless of the state of the team when Josh took over play calling, he had years of experience within the offensive side of the ball. They did just give him the role. Not only did Bill just give the role to Patrica and Judge, he also gave them responsibility of putting the entire system in.
 
RG - don't bother getting out of your jammies - I'm putting on my coat now...
and
PP- all is forgiven. You're probably suffering from golf withdrawals.
 
RG - don't bother getting out of your jammies - I'm putting on my coat now...
and
PP- all is forgiven. You're probably suffering from golf withdrawals.
Thank you OBF. It's just that this comparison stuff drives me up a wall and it's all due mostly to one poster here. If we haven't been constantly barraged with that for the past 3 years, then I'd feel differently.
After putting her on and off ignore I sought the advise of my bro, MEPATNUT. He is still alive but retired from message board posting. His advise was to put that poster on permanent ignore and if I so much as have a notion to take her off, he's going to kick me in the balls very hard.
So, now problem solved.
Oh yes, be slow and gentle with RG, his heart may explode if things get too vigorous, if you get my drift.
 
Aside from Gibbs is there any elite coach not tied to an elite QB? Coaching matters in football more than any other sport, and QB is the most important position. They were just the perfect mix. They won some mostly around great defenses and others mostly behind Brady's arm. I don't think Brady winning a SB with another team changes that one bit. That's the definition of too small a sample size, and that QB developed under BB for 20 years before going to Tampa. Do people really think Brady would be the same player if he played under someone like Arians for 20 years?
 
BB would never have achieved what he did, nor would TB. They needed each other and neither would have the same legacy if TB has been drafted by another team. Pretty simple.
 
BB would never have achieved what he did, nor would TB. They needed each other and neither would have the same legacy if TB has been drafted by another team. Pretty simple.
Except we saw TB win in year one at age 43 without Bill with a clown at HC. The evidence we have would suggest Brady would still have been a multi-SB winner while Bill would have been a below .500 coach unless he drafted/acquired an elite QB during his career.
 
Except we saw TB win in year one at age 43 without Bill with a clown at HC. The evidence we have would suggest Brady would still have been a multi-SB winner while Bill would have been a below .500 coach unless he drafted/acquired an elite QB during his career.
he picked a team that was missing nothing but a good qb. just like peypey did. not hard to understand.
 
Except we saw TB win in year one at age 43 without Bill with a clown at HC. The evidence we have would suggest Brady would still have been a multi-SB winner while Bill would have been a below .500 coach unless he drafted/acquired an elite QB during his career.
You really do miss the forest for the trees. It is not worth anyone's time to attempt to explain anything to you any longer.
 
he picked a team that was missing nothing but a good qb. just like peypey did. not hard to understand.
LOL. Tampa had not made the playoffs in 13 years and not only did he get him to the playoffs, he went on the road beating Brees, Rodgers and then capped it beating Mahomes in the SB. It is considered Brady's best playoff run scoring 30+ every single playoff game.

Bill has had almost 3 seasons now and the team has gone backwards hiring his yes men at the OC positions and in the process causing Mac to regress to the point that he may not be the QB of the future as the #15 overall pick in the draft.

It's pretty clear, Brady would have been great and Hall worthy winning multiple SBs while Bill would have hovered around .500 as he has for his entire HC career (10 seasons) without Brady.
 
LOL. Tampa had not made the playoffs in 13 years and not only did he get him to the playoffs, he went on the road beating Brees, Rodgers and then capped it beating Mahomes in the SB. It is considered Brady's best playoff run scoring 30+ every single playoff game.

Bill has had almost 3 seasons now and the team has gone backwards hiring his yes men at the OC positions and in the process causing Mac to regress to the point that he may not be the QB of the future as the #15 overall pick in the draft.
For crying out loud girl. Brady didn't do jack on his own in Tampa. Tampa also went out and got

Joe Haeg, offensive lineman,​

TE Rob Gronkowski

Bryant Mitchell, wide receiver,​

Ndamukong Suh, defensive tackle,​

K Ryan Succop
RB LeSean McCoy.
And that is just a small number of the players they added for Brady.
 
For crying out loud girl. Brady didn't do jack on his own in Tampa. Tampa also went out and got

Joe Haeg, offensive lineman,​

TE Rob Gronkowski

Bryant Mitchell, wide receiver,​

Ndamukong Suh, defensive tackle,​

K Ryan Succop
RB LeSean McCoy.
And that is just a small number of the players they added for Brady.
SB winning teams have great players.
Haven't we been learning this the past 3 seasons with a bottom third roster?
 
Bored Bugs Bunny GIF by MOODMAN
 
Except we saw TB win in year one at age 43 without Bill with a clown at HC. The evidence we have would suggest Brady would still have been a multi-SB winner while Bill would have been a below .500 coach unless he drafted/acquired an elite QB during his career.
Except he did that after the benefit of 20 years with BB. It's impossible to know how he would have turned out if he'd started somewhere else.
 
Except we saw TB win in year one at age 43 without Bill with a clown at HC. The evidence we have would suggest Brady would still have been a multi-SB winner while Bill would have been a below .500 coach unless he drafted/acquired an elite QB during his career.
Clown or not, his defense held one of the best offenses in the NFL to 9 points in the SB. A defense that also needed to suffocate Brees for them to beat the Saints because Brady was so bad.

You are actually turning me into a Brady hater.
 
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