Draft day musings & ill-considered knee jerk reactions

[ItsGood_ItsGood]

So far, the highlight of the draft is Belichick's press conference when a reporter questioned him on his penchant for draft day trades.
Reporter: "You don't really look like a wheeler/dealer."
BB: "Gee, thanks, I guess. What would I need, plaid pants and a white belt?"
Funny freakin' stuff. Is this some new, comedic side of BB? Will next years post game include bits about airplane food, McDonald's drive-thrus, or the difference between men and women?

How do you grade this thing? Most of us have spent weeks (if not months) going over draft previews. They virtually all rated Ty Warren as the decent leftovers from a run on the good defensive tackles. Like going through the buffet line to find that there's still a pretty good cut of the steamship roast left, but the stuffed shrimp and chicken marsala were wiped out by the Jets and Saints.

Is there a person among us dishonest enough to claim they are familiar with the other Day One selections? Not to say these guys can't help the Pats. But it's tough to wait for draft day, study up so you know your stuff, find that the weather is perfect for a day in front of the tube, and when the day is over, you have to do MORE research just to figure out what the hell you got.

...Like diving under the Xmas tree expecting to tear the wrapping paper off of an Air Hockey table, and instead you get, not socks from grandma or anything, but, say, Skittle Pool and a raincheck from the store that will be getting Air Hockey in stock in a few weeks. And with your other presents, maybe you weren't expecting something GREAT, just passable, like maybe "Rock 'em Sock 'em Robots" and instead you got a board game you never heard of. In the end, you might like it better than what you originally wanted, but that doesn't do much for you NOW...

I say, let this draft be, not a referendum on Belichick/Pioli, but on our attitudes towards same. I for one, trust them. If they decide NOT to pull the trigger on a splashy deal, they've earned my faith in their wisdom. Everybody drafted has great potential and upside in late April. That is, great potential for success and for Trevor Matich-like total crash-and-burnism. So I'll deal with the lack of a draft pick that "blows your hair back" (an up-and-coming draft cliche) and trust in the future.

Lastly, how this draft was conducted is a testament to the owner. Belichick has the rare luxury of his boss' confidence to make solid moves that simultaneously plan for the present and the future without having to worry about his job or have to toss red meat for the instant gratification of the uninformed wolves. Like me, for instance.

By the way, the early skinny on the 2004 draft: it'll be one of the best in years. And the Ravens are expected to stink. Are there any mock drafts available for it yet?

 

[naclone]

yeah, i had never heard of either of the second rounders, but from what i've read since, the bottom line is pretty much that they are BB guys. and we know BB likes to take guys off the beaten path. i think an oversimplification might be: non marquee guys intrinsically have to work harder - and that's something BB covets.

Bethel apparantly is the fastest guy in the draft but a bit of a project. my thinking is they need a speed receiver to catch up to brady's overthrown deep ball.

one GM likened him to a faster Terry Glenn, but unfortunately all i can think about is that other speedy WR, Tony Simmons. we'll see. other important note on this guy - 5'11" - what do we have against guys over 6 feet? again, i think BB know's short receivers have to work harder - and he likes that.

Wilson was compared to Ty Law by on GM and i think the bottom line on him is versatility. Same with Warren. i think the biggest question mark now is do we still move Seymour to End or to we put Warren on the outside?

without a doubt, the story of this draft is...next years draft. the conventional wisdom is that after the first dozen guys or so this year, the talent nose-dived. I think it was clear BB was eyeing those 2 for whatever odd BB reasons and used pickse to make sure we got them but more importanty put us in unbelievable shape for next year in what is supposed to be a talent stock pile. we could get an absolute stud RB in the top 10 next year (compared with taking a humongous gamble on mcgahee like the idiotic bills) and continue to get younger and faster on defense and still have some picks to work on OL.

 

[bideau]

From NFL.com, here's the "experts" opinions of our picks:

Ty Warren:

The sixth defensive lineman in the first 13 picks, and the third defensive lineman to rise in the last month of the draft. Most considered Warren a second-round pick less than a month ago, but great workouts showed better speed than once thought. He originally ran 5.0 in the 40, and then got into the 4.8 range. Teamed with Richard Seymour, the Pats have two 6-foot-5, 300-pound plus linemen inside. If Belichick decides to go back to the 3-4, like most think, they are built to do it now.


Eugene Wilson:

Sooner or later, the Patriots had to find a replacement for Otis Smith. Wilson has a reputation for being a tenacious, man-to-man defender like Fred Smoot. He has the quickness and toughness to be a blitzer. Although Belichick likes to play more zone than man, last season, man coverages were used more. He'll be on the field as a nickel right away, and will be a starter soon.


Bethel Johnson

Johnson is a 4.4 player and a sprint champion. I love the guy -- if he would have had a quarterback (he caught 44 passes last year), he would have been a first rounder.



Also, comments from John Clayton on ESPN.com who listed the Patriots among a short list of winners:

Good teams normally don't have room for 10 or 12 rookies, but the Patriots are manipulating the draft like the 49ers used to do. During the past two offseasons, the Patriots brought in between 12 and 18 low-priced veteran role players and pulled a Super Bowl championship out of it. They've changed philosophies and you have to love how they've become a major player in the draft. They spent good money on veteran free agents (strong safety) Rodney Harrison and (linebacker) Rosevelt Colvin. The beauty of Saturday's draft is they are now loading the roster with quality young players. Sure, you might argue that they would have been better served to trade up and get a better nose tackle than Ty Warren, but what the heck, Warren was one of top three or four two-gap defensive tackles in the draft. Warren, if he can stay healthy, will have to do the dirty work to make Richard Seymour's job easier. The beauty of what the Patriots did is in the second round and in future years. Their second-round is pure quality -- cornerback Eugene Wilson and wide receiver Bethel Johnson. Plus, they've now accumulated two No. 1s, two No. 2s and three No. 4s for next year. That's clout. This new strategy will bring a lot more players who will be with the team for a lot longer.


The more analysis I read, the better I like the 2nd rounders. Now let's see if we can pick up some sleepers with all the picks we have on day 2 (I believe 7 picks today).

 

[bideau]

Yet more analysis. Peter King from CNNSI writes:

4. I think, from my vantage point here at Patriots headquarters, that New England has had an interesting draft so far. When you take a nose tackle first, then trade your other first-round pick for Baltimore's second-round pick (No. 41) and the Ravens' No. 1 pick in the 2004 draft, and then select non-marquee picks at corner and wideout, my conclusion is this: Bill Belichick must feel pretty secure in his job. And this: They have two first-rounders, two second-rounders, a third-rounder and three fourth-rounders next year. Wow. What a bounty.


And 2nd round analysis, also from CNNSI:

Eugene Wilson:

And the hitters keep coming. Wilson is a little undersized, but he's a CB, and the Pats could use him. Heck, anyone could at this point.

Bethel Johnson:

The Patriots, at least, aren't asleep. The most active team in the draft -- they've been trading picks left and right -- they used their first two selections on defense. They use their third one on one of the fastest players in the draft. He's a threat, and the Pats have a QB, so this could work out.

 

[ItsGood_ItsGood]

The Patriots, at least, aren't asleep. The most active team in the draft -- they've been trading picks left and right

A very good point by Peter King. It'll be three years of so before we know whether the Pats were right in passing on some highly touted guys who were still available with their 2nd or 3rd picks (EJ Henderson, Jon Stinchcomb, Pisa Tinoisamoa, Tyrone Calico and most surprisingly, Kelley Washington who went an astonishing 65th).

But none of us miss the days of Bobby Grier standing pat and drafting utterly without a plan. For example, what was his philosophy on CBs? Did he prefer them short (Chris Canty) or tall (TeBucky Jones)? Or did he just draft according to what the draft publications say. I believe that right after he defied conventional wisdom by taking Jones in the 1st round and said he would be the surprise find of the draft, someone found a quote from some magazine like "Heywood Jablowme's Draft Insider" saying "TeBucky Jones will be the surprise find of the draft." Verbatim what Greer later said.

Right or wrong, Belichick has a draft philosophy. Despite the fact I would have preferred a 6'1" or 6'2" WR instead of another smurf, I'll continue to cast my lot with the Coach.

 

[naclone]

Klecko

Dan Klecko
Position: Defensive Tackle
College: Temple
Height: 5-11
Weight: 283
Hometown: Colts Neck, N.J.

Positives: Barrell-chested athlete with big legs and thick arms … Very effective on stunts, playing with his hand down wide to the open side to get after the quarterback quickly … Has the agility to make plays in pursuit and an explosive initial burst … Displays fine foot agility when sliding down the line … Has effective inside counter moves off his upfield rush and excellent recovery speed … Plays with good leverage to prevent blockers from containing him … Has the short-area agility to penetrate the line, collapse the pocket and pressure the quarterback … High intensity tackler with very good swim moves.
Negatives: Can get too reckless at times, overpursuing the play due to his intent on destroying the quarterback, rather than wrapping him up … His size and lack of bulk could pose problems in a 4-3 defense, limiting him to nose-guard duties in a 3-4 scheme … Despite his power, he needs to use his arms better when disengaging from blockers … At times, struggles to handle combination blocks, losing balance when having to move laterally in order to contain the outside run … Not a consistent separation defender, needing to better utilize his functional strength in order to get through the pile.


- so my question is this, is this a depth move or are we considering playing klecko at nose tackle and putting *both* seymour and Warren on the outside?

 

[naclone]

Another BC center!

Maybe Coppen can start and we move Woody to guard?

 

[Peg]

Originally posted by ItsGood_ItsGood

Is there a person among us dishonest enough to claim they are familiar with the other Day One selections? Not to say these guys can't help the Pats. But it's tough to wait for draft day, study up so you know your stuff, find that the weather is perfect for a day in front of the tube, and when the day is over, you have to do MORE research just to figure out what the hell you got.

IG_IG--
I am here to tell you that our own COOKIEinCOLLEGE, made the call on Ty Warren, LONG before our pick yesterday... YEAH!! When the rest of us were FREAKING out when N.O. moved up and took Sullivan, ol' COOKIE was like--"Don't worry-- Ty Warren is still on the board, and he fits our system just as well as Sullivan... (And truth be told, when some of the "cynics" in our group were extrapolating, long before our pick, that Sullivan might not be available, COOKIE was putting forth the thought of Ty Warren, to the rest of us... And we were all like, "Who?!?!"
Hmmm... Damn--- I really respect a chick that knows Football, don't you?!...
Y'all missed a really FUN time, by the way!

I say, let this draft be, not a referendum on Belichick/Pioli, but on our attitudes towards same. I for one, trust them. If they decide NOT to pull the trigger on a splashy deal, they've earned my faith in their wisdom.

I concur... I still trust them...

Lastly, how this draft was conducted is a testament to the owner. Belichick has the rare luxury of his boss' confidence to make solid moves that simultaneously plan for the present and the future without having to worry about his job or have to toss red meat for the instant gratification of the uninformed wolves. Like me, for instance.

Huh--- Kind of funny, as NoRespect espoused a very similar theory at our draft party... Perhaps REALLY GREATLY Twisted Minds, REALLY DO Think Alike!!!

By the way, the early skinny on the 2004 draft: it'll be one of the best in years. And the Ravens are expected to stink. Are there any mock drafts available for it yet?

OH!!--Well, then THAT would help to explain ol' JoePhoto dancin' the Jig, when he found out about our trading for Baltimore's first round pick next year!!... LOL!!...
p.s.--there will be a FEW photos to follow, but NOT too many, as we had a few shy fans, that don't care to see their photos posted on the net, here... Sorry guys---guess that you'll just hafta manage to make it to the next gathering to see everyone... (Including a VERY SPECIAL guest appearance, hopefully!!...) Stay tuned, fellow fans!

 

[Guest]

How do you grade this thing?

Is there a person among us dishonest enough to claim they are familiar with the other Day One selections? Not to say these guys can't help the Pats. But it's tough to wait for draft day, study up so you know your stuff, find that the weather is perfect for a day in front of the tube, and when the day is over, you have to do MORE research just to figure out what the hell you got.

I say, let this draft be, not a referendum on Belichick/Pioli, but on our attitudes towards same. I for one, trust them. If they decide NOT to pull the trigger on a splashy deal, they've earned my faith in their wisdom. Everybody drafted has great potential and upside in late April. That is, great potential for success and for Trevor Matich-like total crash-and-burnism. So I'll deal with the lack of a draft pick that "blows your hair back" (an up-and-coming draft cliche) and trust in the future.

IGIG:

I came here expecting some therapeutic bitterness and reflexive post-draft ranting and instead left with polite benefit-of-the-doubt. I have to say I am feeling a little disappointed -- not unlike my own genuine knee-jerk reaction to the draft.

I practically blew an aorta after the draft. My thinking went something like this: We tried to trade up and failing that -- logically -- decided to trade DOWN? To next year? We traded BACK up to take another guy named Eugene? (Fortunately not Chung....) We followed that up with a guy named Bethel? We took a guy with a "questionable football IQ? We also took a receiver of "questionable work ethic and....hands?" We didn't at least take Kwame Harris, Faine, Steinbach, Boss Bailey or any number of players (a dozen or more by my count who went after the 19th pick) who could have helped the Pats.

This team has some real needs and we would be better off filling some of those needs now rather than next year. Baltimore is going to have a hell of a defense and their pick will not be in the top ten. In fact it will probably be roughly the same as the one we traded, only a year older.

What is the "value" of a draft pick if it is never used? There's a paradox for you Alice (what do you call it -- a koan? I am clapping LOUDLY with one hand after that draft.) Every draft has depth: the trick isn't finding it in a year when the talent is obvious, the trick is finding it when it isn't. I don't think it was that difficult to find talent in the first round and in the early second without even making a trade. I think that Belichick likes to make the problem seem more difficult than it is.

I am fairly certain that we will be talking about this draft for years to come. Not because of who we drafted but because of who we could have drafted. I was fairly well-informed for this draft although not as much as some years. For the simple reason that I have come to understand two things about Belichick and the draft: he will defy convention (with little benefit), and he will suck the excitement out of the process.

I would grade it a D+. I think there will be some "players" out of this draft, but I will be genuinely surprised if this turns out to be a gold mine. There is an old saying: Given a number of possible solutions to a problem, the simplest one is often correct.

 

[spinaltap]

In case anybody wants to hear my opinion about this draft......here goes: When I went to the bar last night, I found myself scratching my head over what had transpired throughout the day. I was so psyched up for this draft and I had never heard of 2 or our 3 picks (wilson & johnson). The only things I had heard about Ty Warren was that he was a second tier DT that could possibly be a second round draft pick. Given all the hype about moving up into the top 5, I must say that I was disappointed when I sat back and thought about the draft. However, I think they molested the ravens by getting their 2nd round pick (wilson) and next year's first rounder. If Boller starts as a rookie, that first round pick will most likely be a top ten. I can't remember any rookie QB that had success in his first year in the fire. But enough about the Ravens. Here is how it shakes down for me. Bellicheck obviously did not feel like there was anyone available at 19 that was worthy of being the "19"th overall pick. I saw many mock drafts that had steinbach, kelly washington, and larry johson. steinbach & washington didn't even sniff the first round. larry johnson went 27th and probably shouldn't have been taken at that spot. It really does look like the draft was perceived by most NFL teams as being pretty weak. So then, why not set yourself up for next year in the exact same situation that you had this year? If you are looking for a franchise running back, look no further than maurice clarett. he will be in next year's draft and will certainly be a top 5 pick. If the patriots really want someone like that, they can go up and get him. So, maybe I have to wait another year to get that instant excitement that I hungered for yesterday. That's fine with me. Let's look at some of the, in my opinion, most ridiculous moves of yesterday's draft. The Jets had 2 picks in the first round and gave them up for a big fat guy. That's basically what all of these DT's are....big fat guys. They are all 6 foot something, they are all 300+ pounds, and they all have the potential to be total non-factors in the NFL. So what makes Robertson worth that much more than Warren? Only time will be able to answer that question. I think that I may already know the answer......there is no difference. Look at what the Saints did! Sullivan was supposed to go in the middle of the first round. If you are going to move up to #6, don't you take the sixth best player in the draft? Does anybody think that Sullivan is going to make a bigger differrence than Terrell Suggs? Not me. But hey, let's look at who we did get and not who we didn't get. I like the prospect of drafting cornerbacks. The Pats took two and if just one of them can start, it's a successful draft in that respect. They also took the fastest WR in the draft...Johnson. Of course we all know that speed alone does not a good wide receiver make. However, if Johnson can grasp the offense and become the "field stretcher" that this offense longs for, then I think that could work out beautifully for us. As for the fourth round and later picks......I love em. Why not take genes over combine numbers? (klecko). Why not take a QB that passed for 5,000 yards and 45 TD's? Why not draft an offensive lineman from the offensive line factory (BC)? I say that if we can come out of this draft with 2 starters and 2 more roster players, it's a good draft. While not exciting, I think the Pats did what they thought would be the best thing for the franchise. Just think about all of the excitement you will have again next year when we hold 2 first rounders, 2 second rounders, and 3 fourth rounders. The possiblities are endless...................................................................................

 

[dropKickMurphy]

So, intead of packaging their 2 first round picks to move up and get Robertson, the Pats parlayed those picks into Ty Warren, Eugene Wilson, and Baltimore's #1 in the 2004 draft.
Let's wait until the end of the 2005 season to give BB his final grade on this move. At this early stage, I have to say I like what he did.
Robertson could well turn out to be a dominant player. However, it did seem that a lot of folks who had seen him play a lot were hesitant to dub him a sure thing. Now, if it were the 2002 draft, and Julius Peppers was available, I would have traded both of our first round picks for him in a heartbeat. I'm just not as sure about Robertson.
Besides, that 2004 first rounder from Baltimore could turn out to be huge. The Pats will be in prime position in what could be a great draft. I've already penciled in Mike Williams at the top of my wish list.

 

[Flagg]

I did player rankings about a week pre draft, put them up on KFFL.

I had Warren as the #2 DT, behind Kennedy. Joseph at 3, Williams at 4, Robertson at 5, and Sullivan at 6.

I had Eugene Wilson at #4 CB, behind Newman, Trufant, and Woolfolk. And I went back and forth about Woolfolk and Wilson. I had Sammy Davis at 7.

Johnson? I didn't have him in my top 15 WRs. But I can see why, with the issues he was facing. A lot of the scouting services were all over the place on him, too.

As for day 2, I had Banta-Cain as an OLB, and ranked #11.

I had Asante Samuel rated as the #7 CB, and was FRIGGIN THRILLED when they grabbed him in round 4.

Koppen as the #5 OC, behind Faine, Johnson, Claxton, and Nelson.

I didn't know anything about DT Ethan Kelley, or the TE from BYU, but I did know about Klecko, and loved his fire, but thought his measurables were too weak for the pro game. I hope I was wrong.

Overall, I loved the draft for the pats, and the icing was the extra 1st and 2nd for next year's draft.

 

[dropKickMurphy]

I had Sammy Davis at 7.

He would have been higher, if not for the glass eye...and the fact that he's dead.

 

[Ballbustah]

This just in....


Between Robertson, Sullivan and Warren... no one knows yet who will have the most successful career.

 

[pookie]

This just in....


Between Robertson, Sullivan and Warren... no one knows yet who will have the most successful career.

To further your point Ballbustah.... nobody knows what Dan Klecko will be capable of in the pro's either.

 

[patriotmarty12]

Draft day musings...

Great stuff, it's all good, my mock draft for next year has pats cleaning up and moving up to pick glamour player whoever that maybe.. Thanks for adding some humor to this whole thing... Wish the Media had a sense of humor instead of thier hand in my pocket ..........