Dumb question of the day......

[BuckWild]

Recently, as I was ceremoniously dreaming about winning another SB, a question came to my mind that I could not answer. And it made me feel real stupid (not that that takes much). So here it goes.

Why do defensive tackles play on the interior of the line but offensive tackles play at the end of the line?

I am sure the great line analysts (Hawg) we have here can answer this question very simply for me. I promise to take any ribbing I may receive for not knowing this by standing up like a true Pats fan and saying .

BuckWild!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Guest]

Buck, a question such as this is complex and has many answers. Being a rookie it might be time for you to consult the wisdom of The Great Dialectizer for your answer.


Click here for you answer and then hit "dialectize".

 

[pookie]

Recently, as I was ceremoniously dreaming about winning another SB, a question came to my mind that I could not answer. And it made me feel real stupid (not that that takes much). So here it goes.

Why do defensive tackles play on the interior of the line but offensive tackles play at the end of the line?

I am sure the great line analysts (Hawg) we have here can answer this question very simply for me. I promise to take any ribbing I may receive for not knowing this by standing up like a true Pats fan and saying .

BuckWild!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It may be as simple as the fact that there are no guards on the D line. There is a nose guard, then the D tackles line up usually on the inside shoulder of the O tackle. Could be?

 

[BuckWild]

Buck, a question such as this is complex and has many answers. Being a rookie it might be time for you to consult the wisdom of The Great Dialectizer for your answer.


Click here for you answer and then hit "dialectize".

ROFL NR that answered all questions I had. My life is now complete. I have seen the light and attained oneness with my self (versus twoness which was getting expensive to feed). That was absolutely frigging hilarious.

BuckWild!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[bideau]

OK, I've done a little research (any excuse not to do work) and I've come up with this info. These are excerpts from The Professional Football Researchers Association at http://www.footballresearch.com.

From an article entitled "Camp and His Followers: American Football 1876-1889":

The names of the positions originated with the reduction to eleven players. The players at the extreme end of the line had been called "end men" all along, and this naturally evolved to "ends". The player at the middle of the line was called, with equal wit, the "center." The players on the center's left and right were at first called the "next-to-centers", but because they guarded the center during the snap back they eventually became "guards". Meanwhile, it was noted that the horribly-named "next-to-ends" made more tackles than anyone else. The next step was predictable.

And then from an article entitled "Evolution of NFL Players":

Offensive and Defensive Tackles

At the time of the founding of the NFL, tackles usually were huge, heavy men such as Wilbur (Pete) Henry and George (Bull) Lowe, who were not necessarily very fast or mobile. Their job was to open holes offensively and anchor the line defensively. Even today, a tackle's responsibilities still are that to a large extent, although pass protection has become a significant duty of the modern offensive tackle.

More than any other position, the tackle always had size. Whether on offense or defensc, he still is among the biggest men on the field.

As six-man defensive lines gave way to five-, four-, and even three-man lines, the size of tackles remained large, but the job requirements called for a different type of bigness. By the 1960s, the emphasis was shifting to speed. The inside pass rush demanded it. Henry Jordan, Bob Lilly, and Alan Page epitomized this type. Pursuit also was stressed, giving the defensive tackle a streamlined look. Merlin Olsen, and then Joe Greene signaled a return to the larger tackle, but they still brought quickness and speed for pursuit.

When four-man lines still were prevalent, the great defensive teams usually had outstanding combinations of ends and tackles. In Baltimore, Art Donovan policed the line of scrimmage while Gino Marchetti recklessly rushed the passer from end. In Los Angeles, Olsen policed his area, while David (Deacon) Jones applied relentless pressure from the outside.

Today, most NFL teams use the 3-4 defense. The defensive tackle really doesn't exist in the 3-4. His place has been taken by a nose tackle, who plays facemask-to-facemask on the center. The nose tackic is more compact. He has more space to patrol and absorbs more physical abuse. He must control the center. In the 1970s, Houston's Curley Culp became the prototype modern nose tackle, and players such as Fred Smerias and Bob Baumhower continue to fill the role.


Putting these two together, I'd say it all started when offensive and defensive lines virtually mirrored each other. In fact, the 2nd article discusses a position which used to be kow as defensive guard:

Until the 1950s, when five- and four-man lines were used, the guards on defense played in the middle of six-man lines, clogging the center of the line.

A key step in evolution of the defense was to drop one of the guards a yard off the line much like a latter-day linebacker and insert a larger man directly over the center. Detroit's Les Bingaman, a 349-pounder, filled the gap well, But so did Cleveland's Bill Willis at 210. This position, calied middle guard, was akin to today's nose tackle in the 3-4.



Hope all this helps. Loved the question and enjoyed the research.

 

[bideau]

Why do defensive tackles play on the interior of the line but offensive tackles play at the end of the line?

Oooops, almost forgot to address your specific question. Technically, offensive tackles are not on the end of the line, the ends are. See the above reply for the boring details.

 

[BuckWild]

Re: Re: Dumb question of the day......

Oooops, almost forgot to address your specific question. Technically, offensive tackles are not on the end of the line, the ends are. See the above reply for the boring details.

Thanks for the great research bideau. That definitely explains a lot. Now as I understand it, present day lines are a product of "evolution," and the positions that have remained are what we refer to.

I had neglected the TE position. Technically I suppose they can be considered linemen, and in fact when used primarily as blockers they are closer to linemen than receivers. Many moons ago when more defensive linemen where the norm I can see how the position titles actually seemed to line up against each other, but as defenses morphed into 4-3 and 3-4 and positions were dropped we were left with DTs facing off against OGs.

Now, the excerpts you posted beg the question, will we ever see the day when a team tries to use 5 or 6 true defensive linemen again?

Ofcourse this would drastically change the role of the secondary as we know it. With only 5 or 6 DBs there would be little or no difference between a safety and a linebacker. This would also put a premium on the covering abilities of the secondary, but the incredible pass rush would aid this a little bit. The biggest concern I see would be the big running play. If a RB was to make it through the line there would be few players to greet him and thus a huge gain. But I still wouldn't mind seeing a team try this approach. Offensively I don't think many teams could handle 5 or 6 DLs charging at them, but quick pass catching RBs like Priest Holmes and M. Faulk would probably have a hay day with them.

Well thanks again for the information and I'm glad I was able to allow you to escape from work for a bit.

BuckWild!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Hawg73]

That wasn't boring at all Bideau, and thank you for the kind words Buck but I really didn't know the exact answer to this excellent question. The article reminded me of the fact that I formerly played "middle guard" in Jr. High and had forgotten that term.

I enjoy reading about the history of the game. It's amazing how much it has evolved but many a new wrinkle has been tried before in one form or another. I keep waiting to see somebody try something like a drop kick in an NFL game. Or maybe the old Statue of Liberty play. Hell, I'll settle for a fullback that can actually run with the ball at this point - I miss the days when those guys would dominate the game. I can't think of a single one that runs with the ball at all now - they're just blockers and pass receivers.

Like in nature, every action seems to have an equal and opposite reaction. Right now the OT's are getting so huge that it seems like teams are trying to find quicker-type DE's and split them wide to exploit the lack of mobility. The 3-4 was almost extinct and now is starting to come back in vogue and the cycle repeats ad infinitum. The trends come faster now.

It's been a while since somebody tried to run an option offense in the NFL. I'm trying to remember the last one. Anyone? Was it the Colts?

 

[pookie]

Hell, I'll settle for a fullback that can actually run with the ball at this point - I miss the days when those guys would dominate the game. I can't think of a single one that runs with the ball at all now - they're just blockers and pass receivers.

It's been a while since somebody tried to run an option offense in the NFL. I'm trying to remember the last one. Anyone? Was it the Colts?

There is one fullback that runs well and often..... Mike Alstott.

I seem to remember the Squealers attempting an option offense when Slash (chuckle) first broke into the league.

 

[Phobia]

There is one fullback that runs well and often..... Mike Alstott.

I seem to remember the Squealers attempting an option offense when Slash (chuckle) first broke into the league.

Tony Richardson's carries are down the past 2 years (for obvious reasons), but he runs hard and gets some redzone carries. I was glad when the Bills cut Larry Centers because this opens the door for TRich to actually make a long deserved Pro Bowl.