OJ: Made In America

[BradyGirl]

It must have been disheartening for the prosecution to realize that no matter what they did or said, there were jurors who had no intention of ever voting O.J. guilty, as admitted by some that it was payback for Rodney King, and that ex-Black Panther was never going to vote O.J. guilty.

One of the female jurors interviewed had little sympathy for Nicole, not understanding battered woman syndrome at all, and put thumbs down on Marcia Clark. She and the younger female juror both said they just wanted to go home when it came time to deliberate. I guess the prosecution was lucky they 'deliberated' for 3 1/2 hours!

It was incompetence from beginning to end on the part of the prosecution, the forensics team, and the some jurors' decision on Day One to not convict. The defense exhibited all the worst traits of high-powered defense lawyers: smug, condescending, and sleazy as they tried (and succeeded) in getting a double murderer off.

Mark Fuhrman was just the icing on the cake. The prosecution had no idea about his background and when it came out, they were screwed. Almost worse than the stupid decision to have O.J. try on the gloves!

I agree with Marcia Clark that Fuhrman was innocent of planting evidence because he couldn't have done it in this particular case, but if the opportunity arose another time and it was a credible frame, I could see Fuhrman doing it.

Judge Ito was clueless, letting the defense lawyers run the trial. I think he got caught up too much in how own celebrity. This is one trial that could have done without cameras.

A lot of people think Fred Goldman, Ron's father, went after O.J. just for the money or publicity, but I kind of like someone never letting O.J. forget and keeping after him. Take away what's really important to him: his money and possessions. In the end, ironically, O.J.'s love of his stuff got him thrown in jail, justice deferred but partially served. Narcissism got him in the end!

 

[patfan64]

http://www.chicagoreader.com/Bleade...oj-made-in-america-isnt-about-oj-its-about-us


It's impossible not to think of Muhammad Ali when viewing O.J.: Made in America, filmmaker Ezra Edelman's absorbing five-part, seven-and-a-half-hour documentary about the rise and fall of O.J. Simpson for ESPN's venerable 30 for 30 series. When Muhammad Ali died on June 3 at the age of 74, the world didn't just mourn the loss of a gifted athlete, it also lamented the loss of a fiery political figure. He was someone who spoke truth to power, who through his actions declared that "Black Lives Matter," who refused to let the world forget that he was both black and Muslim, no matter what the cost. Those convictions cost him dearly.

That was a price O.J. Simpson refused to pay. Unlike his contemporaries Ali, Tommie Smith, John Carlos, Jim Brown, and Bill Russell, Simpson declined to speak out against racial and social injustices during the political upheaval of the 1960s and 1970s. He was disinterested in seeing himself as black, as part of a larger whole—until, that is, it became a defense strategy when he went on trial for the murder of his wife, Nicole Simpson, and her friend Ron Goldman in 1994. As with every 30 for 30 installment, sports is the Trojan horse used to examine deeper matters, in this case, issues of race, class, sexuality, misogyny, and America's culture of violence, particularly violence against women.



Much more at link. Compelling article.

After he was freed, OJ asked one of his friends to take him to get something to eat at a Chicken and Waffles restaurant in the hood. Friend asked him why he wanted to go there? He never had any interest in going there in the past.

He embraced the black community big time after he was freed.

 

[Mark_Henderson]

http://www.chicagoreader.com/Bleade...oj-made-in-america-isnt-about-oj-its-about-us


It's impossible not to think of Muhammad Ali when viewing O.J.: Made in America, filmmaker Ezra Edelman's absorbing five-part, seven-and-a-half-hour documentary about the rise and fall of O.J. Simpson for ESPN's venerable 30 for 30 series. When Muhammad Ali died on June 3 at the age of 74, the world didn't just mourn the loss of a gifted athlete, it also lamented the loss of a fiery political figure. He was someone who spoke truth to power, who through his actions declared that "Black Lives Matter," who refused to let the world forget that he was both black and Muslim, no matter what the cost. Those convictions cost him dearly.

That was a price O.J. Simpson refused to pay. Unlike his contemporaries Ali, Tommie Smith, John Carlos, Jim Brown, and Bill Russell, Simpson declined to speak out against racial and social injustices during the political upheaval of the 1960s and 1970s. He was disinterested in seeing himself as black, as part of a larger whole—until, that is, it became a defense strategy when he went on trial for the murder of his wife, Nicole Simpson, and her friend Ron Goldman in 1994. As with every 30 for 30 installment, sports is the Trojan horse used to examine deeper matters, in this case, issues of race, class, sexuality, misogyny, and America's culture of violence, particularly violence against women.



Much more at link. Compelling article.

I started watching the ESPN series last night. One thing they mentioned was that there were two black celebrity figures from that era who weren't thought of as black by white America because rather than raise controversy, they mixed into the white mainstream.

They were O.J. and Bill Cosby.

 

[Mark_Henderson]

It must have been disheartening for the prosecution to realize that no matter what they did or said, there were jurors who had no intention of ever voting O.J. guilty, as admitted by some that it was payback for Rodney King, and that ex-Black Panther was never going to vote O.J. guilty.

One of the female jurors interviewed had little sympathy for Nicole, not understanding battered woman syndrome at all, and put thumbs down on Marcia Clark. She and the younger female juror both said they just wanted to go home when it came time to deliberate. I guess the prosecution was lucky they 'deliberated' for 3 1/2 hours!

It was incompetence from beginning to end on the part of the prosecution, the forensics team, and the some jurors' decision on Day One to not convict. The defense exhibited all the worst traits of high-powered defense lawyers: smug, condescending, and sleazy as they tried (and succeeded) in getting a double murderer off.

Mark Fuhrman was just the icing on the cake. The prosecution had no idea about his background and when it came out, they were screwed. Almost worse than the stupid decision to have O.J. try on the gloves!

I agree with Marcia Clark that Fuhrman was innocent of planting evidence because he couldn't have done it in this particular case, but if the opportunity arose another time and it was a credible frame, I could see Fuhrman doing it.

Judge Ito was clueless, letting the defense lawyers run the trial. I think he got caught up too much in how own celebrity. This is one trial that could have done without cameras.

A lot of people think Fred Goldman, Ron's father, went after O.J. just for the money or publicity, but I kind of like someone never letting O.J. forget and keeping after him. Take away what's really important to him: his money and possessions. In the end, ironically, O.J.'s love of his stuff got him thrown in jail, justice deferred but partially served. Narcissism got him in the end!

Fuhrman was innocent of planting evidence (at least in the O.J. case), but the prosecution SHOULD have been aware of his history. The defense investigators figured it out. It was public record that Fuhrman had applied for full disability, claiming that the hatred he had developed toward black people made it impossible for him to function in his job. The LAPD denied his claim and sent him back to work.

Given the environment in L.A., the makeup of the jury, and the history of how Johnnie Cochran had argued cases, if the prosecution had as much money and staff as the defense, they would have better seen this coming.

I'm not sure if O.J. would have been found not guilty no matter what. Two of the jurors voted guilty on the initial vote (just up on this from watching the FX Cuba Gooding series). Given that many of those jurors knew generations of being treated unfavorably by the LAPD, Fuhrman was pretty damaging. When he was recalled to the stand after it was demonstrated that he'd lied about using the N word, Fuhrman was asked outright whether he'd planted evidence against OJ and with a lawyer at his side he pleaded the 5th, refusing to answer on the grounds that it may tend to incriminate him. If he's not guilty (don't think he is), he's a serious douche for doing that.

Rich celebrities getting away with murder is nothing new - Robert Blake, Klaus von Bulow, Phil Specter. The race card was just the best play for the defense in this time and place. The result was as much about green as it was black and white. The prosecution should have held the case in Santa Monica, where it was supposed to be, given where OJ lived. They should have done a better job selecting jurors in the voire dire; they were outplayed at every turn. The average defendant is outgunned by the state prosecutors, especially poor people. It's a different ballgame when someone has the resources to really bring in the A team. That's one of the reasons I don't believe in the death penalty.

 

[PatsFan09]

I'm not clear how your post related to my post about how differently people viewed Fuhrman, his purjury, and the possibility of planted evidence. :shrug_n:

As OJ's former friend said, the only way Fuhrman could have planted that glove is if he somehow knew beforehand that OJ had no alibi.

 

[dchester]

As OJ's former friend said, the only way Fuhrman could have planted that glove is if he somehow knew beforehand that OJ had no alibi.

OK, but I still don't know why you replied to my post (which was about how differently people viewed Fuhrman, his purjury, and the possibility of planted evidence), with a post about beating someone with a baseball bat.

:shrug_n:

 

[dchester]

It must have been disheartening for the prosecution to realize that no matter what they did or said, there were jurors who had no intention of ever voting O.J. guilty, as admitted by some that it was payback for Rodney King, and that ex-Black Panther was never going to vote O.J. guilty.

One of the female jurors interviewed had little sympathy for Nicole, not understanding battered woman syndrome at all, and put thumbs down on Marcia Clark. She and the younger female juror both said they just wanted to go home when it came time to deliberate. I guess the prosecution was lucky they 'deliberated' for 3 1/2 hours!

It was incompetence from beginning to end on the part of the prosecution, the forensics team, and the some jurors' decision on Day One to not convict. The defense exhibited all the worst traits of high-powered defense lawyers: smug, condescending, and sleazy as they tried (and succeeded) in getting a double murderer off.

Mark Fuhrman was just the icing on the cake. The prosecution had no idea about his background and when it came out, they were screwed. Almost worse than the stupid decision to have O.J. try on the gloves!

I agree with Marcia Clark that Fuhrman was innocent of planting evidence because he couldn't have done it in this particular case, but if the opportunity arose another time and it was a credible frame, I could see Fuhrman doing it.

Judge Ito was clueless, letting the defense lawyers run the trial. I think he got caught up too much in how own celebrity. This is one trial that could have done without cameras.

A lot of people think Fred Goldman, Ron's father, went after O.J. just for the money or publicity, but I kind of like someone never letting O.J. forget and keeping after him. Take away what's really important to him: his money and possessions. In the end, ironically, O.J.'s love of his stuff got him thrown in jail, justice deferred but partially served. Narcissism got him in the end!

For me, Fuhrman getting caught lying and then taking the 5th was checkmate. The gloves not fitting was humorous, but not that big a deal to me.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/isDPecYKEjM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[BradyGirl]

Fuhrman was innocent of planting evidence (at least in the O.J. case), but the prosecution SHOULD have been aware of his history. The defense investigators figured it out. It was public record that Fuhrman had applied for full disability, claiming that the hatred he had developed toward black people made it impossible for him to function in his job. The LAPD denied his claim and sent him back to work.

I agree. The prosecution missed so many things, like the one juror with the history of being a Black Panther. Fuhrman was such a bombshell that it could have only happened to this prosecution staff, or at least it must have felt that way to them. Marcia Clark was told something bad was coming up and she said, "What, more?" It was just neverending.

Given the environment in L.A., the makeup of the jury, and the history of how Johnnie Cochran had argued cases, if the prosecution had as much money and staff as the defense, they would have better seen this coming.

Yes, they were at a definite disadvantage. One of the people interviewed, an African-American preacher, I believe, said that ultimately it was about a rich guy named O.J. Simpson getting off and that disturbed him. He understood the black community backing O.J., but knew that O.J. had never considered himself black before he needed African-Americans.

I'm not sure if O.J. would have been found not guilty no matter what. Two of the jurors voted guilty on the initial vote (just up on this from watching the FX Cuba Gooding series). Given that many of those jurors knew generations of being treated unfavorably by the LAPD, Fuhrman was pretty damaging. When he was recalled to the stand after it was demonstrated that he'd lied about using the N word, Fuhrman was asked outright whether he'd planted evidence against OJ and with a lawyer at his side he pleaded the 5th, refusing to answer on the grounds that it may tend to incriminate him. If he's not guilty (don't think he is), he's a serious douche for doing that.

I do believe some of the jurors had no intention of voting guilty (the ex-Black Panther, for one), but some of the others were persuaded by the Fuhrman debacle, the gloves, and the shoddy way the LAPD forensics team gathered evidence. They definitely had their minds made up by deliberation time. Only took 3 1/2 hours!

And Fuhrman should have vehemently denied planting evidence in this particular case.

 

[BradyGirl]

For me, Fuhrman getting caught lying and then taking the 5th was checkmate. The gloves not fitting was humorous, but not that big a deal to me.

Agreed on Fuhrman.

I do think the gloves offered a dramatic moment that tended to stick in people's minds along with that quote in Cochran's closing argument. As someone said in the documentary, O.J. went into <i>Naked Gun</i> mode with the gloves on, playing it up to the hilt.

 

[Mark_Henderson]

As OJ's former friend said, the only way Fuhrman could have planted that glove is if he somehow knew beforehand that OJ had no alibi.

OJ thought the trip to Chicago would be an alibi, but it just ended up making him look worse (or should have), when the limo driver saw his Bronco pull up right after the time of the homicides.

 

[Mark_Henderson]

And Fuhrman should have vehemently denied planting evidence in this particular case.

Fuhrman's answer to that is that he was pleading the 5th about committing perjury about using the N word and that once you plead the 5th to one thing, you're supposed to plead it to everything. WTF?

There was too much evidence for me to consider OJ being not guilty, but I could see if you were black from South Central, given their long history of bad treatment by the cops, that having the main detective that found the evidence taking the 5th on whether he planted the evidence, could be enough for them to consider reasonable doubt.

I also don't get what Fuhrman was thinking when F. Lee Bailey was hammering him on cross examination about whether he'd ever referred to black people as ni**ers, and whether there were any witnesses that would say otherwise. Fuhrman had been around the block enough that he should have known that Bailey was setting him up. I guess maybe Fuhrman's courtroom experience was testifying in S. Central, where people had $hitty public defenders, and he was naive about the level of gamesmanship that was coming from a world class defense attorney.

 

[Mark_Henderson]

I'm only on episode 3, but to be honest , I'm very bored by it. Yes, it's incredibly informative and if you're a big OJ fan, or someone deeply interested in his story, it's great, but for someone like myself who's just curious, I have had a hard time locking in.
That being said, the amount of old clips from his past, etc is pretty outstanding .

I now finished the documentary and enjoyed it, but would agree that it's excessively long. It's well made and maybe of more appropriate length if you're someone whose never heard of OJ Simpson or the history of discrimination in America (like an 18 year old in Vietnam or something).

But, Ken Burns was able to make the definitive, very detailed documentary about the Civil War, its antecedents and lasting implications, in 12 hours. Spending 10 hours on OJ is kind of over the top. I mean, they spent 25 minutes on the Hertz commercials.

 

[PatsFan09]

I now finished the documentary and enjoyed it, but would agree that it's excessively long. It's well made and maybe of more appropriate length if you're someone whose never heard of OJ Simpson or the history of discrimination in America (like an 18 year old in Vietnam or something). But, Ken Burns was able to make the definitive, very detailed documentary about the Civil War, its antecedents and lasting implications, in 12 hours. Spending 10 hours on OJ is kind of over the top. I mean, they spent 25 minutes on the Hertz commercials.

I finished it as well, and parts 4 to 5 were much better. Amazing what a narcissistic egomaniac he had become.

 

[Mark_Henderson]

I finished it as well, and parts 4 to 5 were much better. Amazing what a narcissistic egomaniac he had become.

It seems like he always was an egomaniac (probably not that uncommon among superstars). When OJ was in the Bronco outside his house after the low speed chase, the detective that was talking to him on the phone tried to persuade him not to commit suicide by telling him to think of his children and how he wouldn't want them to see him shoot himself, and it wasn't working.

The detective said that then he looked around OJ's house and realized that all the pictures on the walls were pictures of him and his awards and he realized that OJ was very self-centered. So, he decided to change his approach and make the conversation all about OJ, and then he said that he made progress and got OJ to come out of the car.

 

[dchester]

I found this to be an interesting article. Part of it is about the reaction to an event at USC in 2002.

The ghosting of O.J. Simpson

The anger many white people felt at his acquittal is now a desire to erase him.

. . .

Many white people still refused to abide by a verdict they believed to be illegitimate — to see him not only freely interacting in society, but being celebrated, made the injustice that much harder to swallow.

Simpson was acquitted by a jury in a lawful trial. That’s the only position USC law professor Jody David Armour will take. Armour, who studies the intersection of race and legal decision-making, sees a double standard in the erasure of Simpson football career.

“Whenever there’s an officer-involved shooting and the officer is acquitted, white people are always telling us, ‘The justice system has run its course, let’s all abide by its decision.’ And you’re irrational and unreasonable for responding in any other way,” said Armour, author of Negrophobia and Reasonable Racism: The Hidden Costs of Being Black in America.

http://theundefeated.com/features/the-ghosting-of-o-j-simpson/