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stainlee

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the red sox WINNING the world series AND the patriots winning THE SUPERBOWL in the same season???


does anyone think that boston would survive???


not for nothing, but, it's not out of the question.


one question....has any city done that before???


i asked that and was told that the 69 "miracle mets" and the jets with broadway joe namath pulled that off.


however, that was a little before my time.
 
Pittsburgh did it in '79. That was the year of Willie Stargell and "We Are Family".

In fact, they accomplished what New England fans are hoping for. A world Series surrounded by two Super Bowls.

The Steelers won SB XIII in Jan, '79, Pirates won the World Series in Oct, '79 and the Steelers won SB XIV in Jan, '80.
 
Is it possible? I dunno...Red Sox in the world series scares me a bit, but god knows what could happen if it did happen. Hopefully the stupid drunks would chill the hell out though!:mad:
 
Maybe we can beat St Louis in the WS and St Louis in the SB? Too much to contemplate, one game at a time.

Those kids have no right to riot like that-they don't remember the pain we've gone throught with this team. I am old enough to remember Aparicio falling down, Jim Burton coming in for Willoughby, and Dent (although Torrez walking people in front of Dent seems to be forgotten). These guys only remember the last few years. Well, the Sox have been in the playoffs a lot since 95. Before that, we had 3 seasons in the playoffs in 30 years. And when game 7 was over, I just cracked open a another beer and let all those years wash away. I didn't feel like breaking stuff or lighting fires.

These are the good times guys, let's enjoy them (without getting arrested).
 
Unfortunately, they're college kids who are looking for any excuse to act like idiots. It's a mob mentality. As soon as one person does something, another assumes its OK and it just snowballs. It happens all over the country after pro and college championships.

This is an account from the Boston Herald:

The sequence of events that led to the death of an Emerson College student began when a half-dozen officers on horseback were surrounded by rioting Red Sox fans on Lansdowne Street about 1:30 a.m. yesterday, witnesses said.

By the time armor-clad cops dispersed the crowd of some 3,000 in the shadow of Fenway Park's Green Monster, Victoria Snelgrove, 21, lay fatally injured. She had been struck in the eye by one of a number of pepper balls fired by police to quell unruly fans throwing bottles and bricks.

``The cops (on horseback) pushed in and the people closed in behind them,'' said Emerson student Brett Schweinberg, 18, who was struck by two pepper projectiles fired by police while trying to scale the Green Monster.

``They were surrounded by people and a bottle landed near a horse and it spooked it. It faltered and it got jittery and 30 to 40 seconds later, cops turned around and fired at a group of people about 20 feet to my left. People scattered except for one girl who was bleeding from the nose and mouth.''

A Herald reporter in the midst of the crowd saw revelry turn to mob mentality. Several people tried to scale the Green Monster, at least one of whom plummeted to the ground after being shot by a projectile.

Small fires burned, street signs were torn down and trash barrels were tossed about as police struggled to control the increasingly hostile crowd. Several cars became trapped by walls of people while drivers spun their tires and blared stereos - some with people riding on the roof. Several bottles were thrown, one of which reportedly struck a police officer, breaking his nose.

The shot that killed Snelgrove followed a standoff between a cop on horseback and a young man wearing a gray knit hat. Standing by a bustling sausage cart, the man refused the officer's orders to move, prompting the officer to reach down and toss him to the ground. After getting up, the man hurled profanities at the cop and made several obscene gestures.

More bottles were thrown as at least one riot cop fired projectiles into the crowd, one of which apparently struck Snelgrove. The girl had been standing by the sausage cart with friends.

She immediately fell to the ground while her friends tended to her, rubbing her head as blood streamed from her face. Horrified onlookers shouted ``get an ambulance'' as the girl drifted in and out of consciousness. One of the riot cops checked on the girl briefly. Approximately five minutes after she collapsed, mounted police cleared a path for an ambulance and the girl was taken away.

As cops cleared the crowd, one young man who had been standing near Snelgrove shouted at police, ``Are you happy? Murderers!''

One officer was stunned at the ferocity of the violence. ``I saw the horses surrounded,'' he said. ``It was like a vacuum. They got sucked in. I saw guys holding small trees they had pulled out of the ground like warriors. They were holding steel sign posts they had bent over and broken. We had to fight to get control.''
Click to expand...

This was truly tragic and unnecessary. This poor girl was an innocent bystander. There's alot of blame to go around. As "Mumbles" Menino said, the city accepts responsibility, but the blame has to be shared by the idiots who had to turn a celebration into a riot.
 
As an aside, the Boston Herald has a full front page photo of the poor girl lying on the sidewalk.

In my opinion, this is an absolutely disgusting thing to do to the girl's family. They shouldn't have to look around and see a full page color photo of their daughter dying on the street.

:4321: you Boston Herald.
 
Heard on the radio that the girls family requested the photo be on the front page. Not sure if it's true.

The Herald has a place-it's the only paper that can be read easily on an airplane. That's about it.
 
bideau said:
Unfortunately, they're college kids who are looking for any excuse to act like idiots. It's a mob mentality. As soon as one person does something, another assumes its OK and it just snowballs. It happens all over the country after pro and college championships.
Click to expand...
Warning: I'm about to rant. I'll try to vent my anger in a way that doesn't get me banished to the Political Forum.

There is no excuse.

Why has this type of thing gotten so out of hand in recent years? Look, I remember doing some crazy shiite when I was that age. But never in a million years would we celebrate something by destroying property, setting cars on fire, or throwing bottles at cops. Now, this is the norm. We pretty much expect it to happen when a local team wins a big game.

Perhaps we're just seeing the results of a generation of kids raised without limits...getting everything handed to them...accustomed to being shielded from the consequences of their actions.

I know you've got a son in college, Bideau. I can tell just by the way you refer to him in this forum that you are very proud of him. I have no doubt that you and your wife have worked hard to raise him to be a responsible adult. I try to do the same with my own children, as do most of the parents I know.

You said "As soon as one person does something, another assumes its OK and it just snowballs." I don't think I'd be going out on a limb if I guessed that you, like me, would not send your kid off to college unless you were confident that he would not "assume it's OK" to throw bottles at cops and set cars on fire. We can't prevent them from doing some real stupid $hit, but this goes way beyond immature pranks.

Unfortunatly, there are too many people...many of them affluent, educated, professionals...who just don't get it. Instead of doing the hard work of setting limits, instilling values, teaching responsibility...they believe their role as parents is to give their children everything they ask for. Salley got a D on her English test?...blame the teacher. Billy isn't starting at QB on his Pop Warner team?...sue the coach. After all, nothing is more important than our little superstar's self-esteem.

This was a terrible tragedy, but it was a horrible accident...not murder. It should make cops more aware of the fact that even "non-lethal" methods can result in death. I hope that it results in cops being more careful with these methods. I think it would be a big mistake however, to rule out the use of rubber bullets in a situation like this. What if a thrown bottle had hit a cop driving a car, causing him to lose control of the car, and a bystander had been killed? Would people be complaining that cops shouldn't be able to use cars?

The things that this mob was doing created a situation where serious injury was almost inevitable. Anyone who throws a bottle at a cop is not just irresponsible...he is a criminal. These punks need to be forced to bear the reponsibility for their reckless acts. They should bear the burden of guilt that the death of this young woman was the result of their behavior.
 
DKM,

That was an outstanding post :thumb:

My son has actually had experience in this phenomenom. He's a senior at Syracuse and was on campus when they won the NCAA championship two years ago. He decided to check out the scene on Marshall St (the club area of the campus). He quickly felt uncomfortable with the environment and decided to return to his dorm room. Maybe it was my warning to him earlier that day not to get caught up in idiot behavior if they won. I like to think that we laid the ground work years before when we always stressed that they (he and his sister) were responsible for their own behavior.

What these schools need to start doing is immediately expelling those who take part in this idiocy. Does that sound harsh? Not to me. My daughter goes to Washington & Lee University in Virginia. They have an extremely strict honor code. There is only one penalty for violation (lying, stealing, cheating) and that's expulsion, no exceptions. My daughter has never locked her dorm room. Tests are administered without a faculty member present. She leaves her pocketbook on a shelf outside the cafeteria and its always there when she returns. One weekend I was visiting, there was a $20 bill sitting on the floor of the laundry room. The next day, it was still there. Students understand the penalty and understand that they are accountable for their actions.

So rant on, DKM. I'm with you on this one.
 
I want to add a real example of the attitude that you talk about, DKM.

My wife runs a non-profit substance abuse agency. They provide alot of free care which is funded by donations from charitable organizations. One such organization had donated a generous sum for several consecutive years.

One day, the treasurer of the organization comes in with his stepson, who has been court ordered to be evaluated. After the evaluation, this "gentleman" is not happy with the report. He asked my wife to change it. When she refused, he threatened never to provide funds again. She again refused and sure enough, the following year, the donation was suddenly not there.

Rather than face the reality that there was an issue and accepting responsibility, they tried to extort a result which would allow them to avoid it. Gee, I wonder what's gonna happen to that kid as he progresses through life??
 
You know that a win over the Cards would complete the grandslam for defeating a St.Louis team in a League Championship. (B's over STL, Celtic over the STL Hawks, Pat's over Kurt Warner's wife, and .......
 
Outstanding post's by both of you!
I am outraged by the acts of some of these idiots as well even though I suspected it would be like this.

While I agree that parents need to have an active role in their children's development into a responsible adult by instill values there will always be a relatively small number of kids that will do whatever the hell they want without thinking of the repercussions.
My younger brother (5 years younger than I) for example was one of the few ignorant "adults" that took part in creating chaos when the Pats won SB XXXVI ....... we where raised the exact same way yet celebrated in 2 entirely different manners. While I celebrated with friends and family he decided to be a thug and fight,destroy property ........ I will never understand the mentality of these acts ...... and I am the "black sheep" of my family.
 
It's a pity they didn't have a pepper bullet to lay in the eye of the idiot talking to the news camera saying we're out here setting cars on fire, this is what we do. People like that, and every single person who got out of control down there are simply poster children for retro-active abortion.

The sad thing, the city/police take responsibility for a tradgedy, and I'd wager most of these people don't think they had anything to do with it. After all, they were just costing tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars in damage, no harm there, right????
 
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