Freeney

[ColtFan81]

C'mon... Freeny is an excellent player. You can't denigrate him. He's got a hell of a lot of game.

That being said, he's not the best defensive lineman in the league... That honor is a toss-up between Peppers/Rucker/Jenkins (pick one from the 3 headed Carolina monster... probably Peppers) and Seymour. But Freeny's certainly got to be included in the discussion. His lack of size (and therefore his lack of effectiveness against the run) takes him out of the medal round.

BTW, the Corey Simon to Richard Seymour analogy made no sense at all. Wilfork maybe... but not Seymour

I was referring to the point made about seymour being effective even though it doesnt show on the stat sheet. Simon has the same presence on the field. He won't give you 10 tackles a game but he can clog up the middle and force running backs to change their course.

As far as the patriots being a defense that doesnt focus on stats but rather turnovers? Freeney has averaged 6 forced fumbles a year since he has been in the league. That means for every 2 sacks he forces one fumble. I don't see what the patriots wouldn't love about that.

 

[B A Rabbit]

C'mon... Freeny is an excellent player. You can't denigrate him. He's got a hell of a lot of game.

Sure we can Threadkilla. Being in Raidah land you must know what its like hearing a bunch of talking heads in place of a football team.

I don't care how good a guy is, as soon as she starts walking around like his poop don't stink, He's opening himself up for ridicule. How often does someone demand to the highest paid player and then plays like he's worth it? More often than not these guys fall flat on their faces.


The Colts need to tred carefully. Things like this can rip a team apart.


That being said, At least he's keeping it to the off-season. Even David Wells knew enough to end it as soon as the season started. I'd be more worried about his preformance, for the sake of the Colts team if he kept it up into the season and held out if he gets franchised next year.

Maybe "Vinny" will put him in place and tell him to STFU.

 

[Hawg73]

I've weighed in on Freeney before here, but have nothing else to do at the moment, so....

I think it is a little unfair to state that Freeney "just" rushes the passer. I don't think he is out there doing his own thing-- the coaches want him to be a balls-to-the-wall backfield penetrator.

I know he gives up some big plays and can be run at, but his disruption of an offense's game plan shouldn't be laughed off as insignificant.

I'm not saying he is better than Seymour or should be paid nearly what he is asking-- but, he is one of the best pass rushers this game has ever seen and is a major factor when game planning the Colts D. He is relentless and never seems to get tired.

Even if that's mostly what he does, it is still a huge problem to deal with.

I don't like the Colts much, but when I'm watching their D in a neutral game-- I can't take my eyes off the guy. Watching him destroy Jonathan Ogden was one of the most impressive single performances I've ever seen in the NFL. Ogden is one of the most dominant OTs of the last 10 years and Freeney made him look like Brandon Gorin.

 

[ColtFan81]

I would still like to hear exactly what Freeney said. He wasn't quoted in that little bit by Pasquerelli.

I keep up to date on Colts happenings around here and Freeneys contract isn't something that I have heard much of.

 

[dchester]

I think Freeney is one of the best pass rushers in the league, but he's very ordinary against the run. However, it does seem that teams will pay big bucks for a pass rusher, so I wouldn't be surprised to see him get QB type money if he became a free agent. I suspect the Colts will simply franchise him (at least for a couple years) if they can't reach an agreement. I also suspect Freeney was just posturing with his statement anyways.

FYI, under the rules of the new CBA, if a player is franchised three years in a row, on the third year he gets the franchise value for the QB position (regardless of what position he plays).
________
girlfriends pics

 

[Darth Despot]

Sacks are to NFL defensive linemen as batting average is to MLB hitters. A simple stat that everyone can get their arms around, but one that only tells a small portion of the story.

Speaking as a 42nd degree Colts Hata, I fervently hope that Polian feels the exact same way that coltfan81 feels. Tying up $7 to $10 Million in cap space on a one dimensional defensive limeman would be nothing but good news to the Colts Rivals.

Feeny is very good at what he does, but what he does is only about 33% of what one would expect from a top D-Lineman in the league.

 

[stainlee]

anyone else find it interesting that with all the defensive injuries the pats suffered last season, against a brutal schedule, the pats finished 8th in run defense (98.8 YPG)

with brown/beisel at ILB and duane :Eason starks in the secodary, the patriots were getting mowed over and bombed on. once they moved vrabel inside and bruschi and seymour came back and replaced duane :Eason: starks with hobbs, the patriots once again became one of the most dominant defenses in the league.

meanwhile, the colts, relatively injury free, playing an easier schedule, finished 18th in run defense (110.1 YPG).

just my opinion, but if richard seymour was allowed to just go after the QB, like freeney, he would rack up 20 to 25 sacks a year.

but of course the patriots defense would suffer.

 

[WV-Colt]

just my opinion, but if richard seymour was allowed to just go after the QB, like freeney, he would rack up 20 to 25 sacks a year.

well done! that is one of the most rediculous things i have ever read on this, or any other, message board. thanks for the laugh.

ROFL

 

[stainlee]

well done! that is one of the most rediculous things i have ever read on this, or any other, message board. thanks for the laugh.

ROFL

glad i could amuse you.

the NFL record for sacks is 22.5 by michael strahan in 2001.

if seymour were allowed to play 1-gap, charge after the QB, like freeney is, i think it would be very possible for 20 to 25 sacks.

in any case, we'll never know because it would hurt the pats defense overall and belichick would never allow it.

and if polian pays the one dimensional freeney 8 to 12 million a year, the laugh you just had, wouldn't be half the laugh i would enjoy.

 

[Steve-o]

Seymour's averaging about 5 sacks per season, so you're saying he could quintuple his sack output?

The stat (yes, I will be fully disappointed if someone doesn't jump all over this one) I find interesting is Freeney's 23 career forced fumbles. In one more season, Seymour has 3.

Seymour's averaging 3.43 tackles per game, Freeney's at 2.46.

Draw what you will from the stats, but the fumbles impresses me the most. Forcing a fumble is one of the most instantaneous game changing events a DE can create. And Dwight's doing alright in that category.

 

[ColtFan81]

glad i could amuse you.

the NFL record for sacks is 22.5 by michael strahan in 2001.

if seymour were allowed to play 1-gap, charge after the QB, like freeney is, i think it would be very possible for 20 to 25 sacks.

in any case, we'll never know because it would hurt the pats defense overall and belichick would never allow it.

and if polian pays the one dimensional freeney 8 to 12 million a year, the laugh you just had, wouldn't be half the laugh i would enjoy.

Sure, Belichick would hate to see those sacks and forced fumbles.

By the way, here is Seymours contract information.

Mike Reiss, of the Boston Globe, reports New England Patriots DE Richard Seymour's contract included a signing bonus of $5.34 million. He has an option bonus of $18.66 million due in 2007. If the Patriots don't pick up the option bonus, Seymour's 2007 base salary becomes $19.26 million guaranteed. This clause is built in to essentially ensure that Seymour's option bonus is picked up. Reiss says ESPN.com's Len Pasquarelli reported that the $18.66 million option bonus is split into two parts. The first part is $6.66 million, and according to Pasquarelli can be paid any time from Aug. 4 of this year to next March. The second part is $12 million and is due next March. Seymour will also receive workout bonuses of $100,000 in each season from 2006-2009.




Your 8-12 million for Freeney would be a bargain compared to this!

 

[Wandering Athol]

Seymour's averaging about 5 sacks per season, so you're saying he could quintuple his sack output?

The stat (yes, I will be fully disappointed if someone doesn't jump all over this one) I find interesting is Freeney's 23 career forced fumbles. In one more season, Seymour has 3.

Seymour's averaging 3.43 tackles per game, Freeney's at 2.46.

Draw what you will from the stats, but the fumbles impresses me the most. Forcing a fumble is one of the most instantaneous game changing events a DE can create. And Dwight's doing alright in that category.

What you're really debating here is the merits of the 4-3 employed by the Colts versus the 3-4 employed by the Pats. Put Seymour in a 4-3 system and allow him to move between tackle and end to maximize his effectiveness on the pass rush (much like the Colts do by keeping Freeney on the QB's blindside), and I think Seymour would average 10-15 sacks a year, probably 60-70 tackles, and a lot more forced fumbles coming off of penetration and sacks (which is where I would bet Freeney gets his).

The Colts D is a gambling D, trying to get off the field as soon as possible by getting turnovers: they are not built to survive long, sustained drives. This will allow for big stats by the D-linemen, but also big stats often for the opposing offense if these turnovers elude the Colts, or heaven-forbid the Colts offense be slowed down enough for an opposing team to work its running game. The Pats D is based upon the bend-but-don't break philosophy of making the opposing offense march down the field in small chunks at a time through disciplined play. The D-linemen are there to occupy blockers so that the LBs can garner the big stats.

Seymour could adjust his game and play effectively in the 4-3 quickly. Freeney would be forced into the OLB role within the Pats system, and be forced to play the pass on occasion...something he might be able to do with time and practice, but I'm just not so sure of.

Freeney's style of play matches the Colts' philosophy perfectly and hence, he is probably more valuable to that team than 80% of the rest of the teams in the NFL. That's also what makes him less valuable than Seymour as far as $$$ is concerned. Seymour would gather interest from the other 31 teams if he were to become a free agent. Leading to: Freeney is not worth Seymour-like money, but he's still worth quite a bit.

But heck, I still hope either Polian pays him like a QB, or he holds out.

 

[stainlee]

Seymour's averaging about 5 sacks per season, so you're saying he could quintuple his sack output?

The stat (yes, I will be fully disappointed if someone doesn't jump all over this one) I find interesting is Freeney's 23 career forced fumbles. In one more season, Seymour has 3.

Seymour's averaging 3.43 tackles per game, Freeney's at 2.46.

Draw what you will from the stats, but the fumbles impresses me the most. Forcing a fumble is one of the most instantaneous game changing events a DE can create. And Dwight's doing alright in that category.

yet, for some reason, freeney basically disappears in the playoffs.

 

[TripleOption]

What you're really debating here is the merits of the 4-3 employed by the Colts versus the 3-4 employed by the Pats.

What's the debate?

Pats D= 3 Super Bowls

Colts D= 0 Super Bowls

 

[Wandering Athol]

Your 8-12 million for Freeney would be a bargain compared to this!

IIRC, when all's said and done, Seymour's on the books for a little over $8MM/year average for the next 4 years.

Given this, do you still think Freeney would be a bargain at $8-12MM/year?

 

[Wandering Athol]

What's the debate?

Pats D= 3 Super Bowls

Colts D= 0 Super Bowls

You spoil all the fun if you snuff out the flame this early in the offseason. Better to let the Colts fans linger with some sense of hope, only to slam the door on them again in January.

 

[Steve-o]

The Colts D is a gambling D, trying to get off the field as soon as possible by getting turnovers: they are not built to survive long, sustained drives. This will allow for big stats by the D-linemen, but also big stats often for the opposing offense if these turnovers elude the Colts, or heaven-forbid the Colts offense be slowed down enough for an opposing team to work its running game. The Pats D is based upon the bend-but-don't break philosophy of making the opposing offense march down the field in small chunks at a time through disciplined play. The D-linemen are there to occupy blockers so that the LBs can garner the big stats.

Well, with a Colts D that ranked 2nd in the league in points allowed last season, but 11th in total yards, the "bend but don't break" moniker seems to fit THEM pretty well.

 

[TripleOption]

Well, with a Colts D that ranked 2nd in the league in points allowed last season, but 11th in total yards, the "bend but don't break" moniker seems to fit THEM pretty well.

Broke enough vs Pittsburgh, didn't it?

 

[Steve-o]

Broke enough vs Pittsburgh, didn't it?

Broke 6 fewer points than the team that lost to Denver.

 

[TripleOption]

Broke 6 fewer points than the team that lost to Denver.

You mean the one that already had three rings?

Or the one that has repeatedly choked?

Not to be argumentative, but I hate when Colts fans cling to individual statistics and accolades when they can never seem to reach, let alone win the Big One.