Thought for sure it was as they rushed the field in Foxboro.
You know, 'classy-like'.
Is Seattle splitting apart due to SB 49 play call?
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Thought for sure it was as they rushed the field in Foxboro.
You know, 'classy-like'.
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Mazz22
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Pretty good summation why the Seahawks are on the decline. They are not hitting the draft picks like they used to and Wilson is not a QB that can make mediocre talent great like Brady.
The Seahawks Try To Maintain Cruising Altitude
Seattle built its dominance on the 2010-12 drafts, but they’ve struggled to match them in recent years.
By David Chill - May 4, 201781 0
Seattle built its dominance in the 2010-12 drafts, but they’ve struggled to match them in recent years
Having had so much success in later rounds, the Seattle Seahawks do not typically trade up to get a high draft choice. They are more likely to be the ones trading down, and stockpiling mid-round picks.
The team of Pete Carroll and John Schneider emerged on the NFL scene in 2010 with a fantastic draft class that brought in Earl Thomas, Kam Chancellor, Russell Okung, and Golden Tate (who eventually left when Percy Harvin was added). Carroll and Schneider burnished their legacy over the next two drafts with an amazing haul that added Richard Sherman, K.J. Wright, Bobby Wagner, Bruce Irvin and Russell Wilson. With these picks, Seattle soared to two consecutive Super Bowls in what felt like a potential dynasty in the making. While they’ve had some moderate draft success since 2014, their end results have paled in comparison to those first three years.
To understand how Seattle identified and corralled such immense talent a few years ago is to look no further than Pete Carroll’s resume. Coming off of nine years of mercurial success at USC, Carroll had a unique opportunity to scout, assess, recruit, and coach against the best talent in college football. He did not need to begin looking at tape a few months before the 2010 draft, he already knew the strengths and weaknesses of so many college players around the nation. He just needed to understand in which round they’d most likely be snatched up. While most NFL coaches start the assessment right after their season ends, Carroll had an eight year head start on everyone; he had known some of these guys since they were freshmen in high school.
Pete Carroll was an All-Conference safety in college, playing for a mid-major, the University of Pacific. He never made it to the NFL, which is not atypical. But Carroll was a great communicator and an enthusiastic learner, traits which led him into a new career and quickly propelled him up the coaching ladder of success. John Schneider’s path was a little different, he entered the NFL as a scout, rising to be head of player personnel for the Packers, Chiefs and Redskins before taking over as General Manager of the Seahawks. The blend of Carroll’s in-depth knowledge of college players combined with Schneider knowing how the NFL works was a winning combination. The 2013 Lombardi trophy is testament to that.
But in recent years, some of the luster has been removed from the Seahawks’ glow. They make the playoffs almost every year, but the past two seasons have resulted in second-round exits. Part of the reason is injuries, part of the reason is the salary cap, which forced some valuable players to depart in free agency. But part of the reason also lies in not drafting with the same astute insights that shined in their first three drafts. As time goes on, Pete Carroll is more and more removed from the college ranks, as would naturally be the case. But part of the reason may also lie in the Seahawks willingness to part with first round draft picks, trading down a few notches in order to stockpile selections in later rounds. Having had great success cherry picking the likes of Russell Wilson, Richard Sherman and Kam Chancellor in the middle rounds, the Seahawk leadership believes it has a keen feel for evaluating talent. In the past four years, that bluster has not been borne out.
Since 2012, the Seahawks have utilized exactly one first round pick, and that was employed to draft offensive tackle Germain Ifedi last year, who, in classic Seahawk manner, was quickly moved to guard. Ifedi won a starting job as a rookie, but his 2016 performance, along with the rest of their young O-line, was far from stellar. The Seahawks have come away with some nice talent in recent drafts, Paul Richardson, Tyler Lockett, Luke Willson, Frank Clark and Cassius Marsh are all good examples. But none of these players can be classified at the same level as a Bobby Wagner or an Earl Thomas. The former are capable football players; the latter are the ones who lead teams to Super Bowl rings.
The most recent Seahawk draft appears to include yet another of a growing list of decent but unspectacular players. Malik McDowell probably holds the greatest promise of star power. The rest have very real deficiencies, although it’s far too early to write anyone off. While few outside of the Pacific Northwest ever thought Richard Sherman could go from an average college wide receiver to an All-Pro NFL cornerback, this type of wild success story just doesn’t happen very often. And in Seattle, boffo drafts are happening less and less. In recent years, few of their late round picks have blossomed.
The idea of ridding a team of first round draft choices is not a unique strategy, and the New England Patriots have utilized this in a fabulous way. But the Patriots have something few teams ever possess, the luxury of a sensational QB talent, an ageless wonder who fits their system to a tee, and can lead good players to do great things. The Seahawks don’t have a Tom Brady, few teams do. What the Seahawks have is a solid team full of aging starters who are beginning to show some wear and tear. The fact Seattle drafted heavily on defensive backs this year speaks to their looking down the road at a world without the Legion of Boom. But whether the likes of Griffin, Hill, Thompson and Tyson can replace Sherman, Thomas, Chancellor and Some-Guy-Named-Moe is doubtful.
Seattle has enough talent to keep making the playoffs for at least a few more years. They have the added bonus of being in a weak division, although the San Francisco 49ers’ draft this year may begin to change that. Other teams are making inroads, as they should, because the draft is meant to be the great equalizer, allowing weak teams to draft first and gobble up the future stars.
It doesn’t always work that way (hello Jaguar fans!), and bringing in good players who fit your system will keep a team on top for a while. But everything levels off in time, and the cruising altitude which the Seahawks have been flying at may start to descend soon. Call it the NFL’s version of gravity. Seattle has soared to great heights through great drafts. Yet nothing lasts forever, and the Seahawks’ mediocre draft performance of late can only lead to a similar mediocrity on the playing field.
http://www.armchairallamericans.com/seahawks-try-maintain-cruising-altitude/
The Seahawks Try To Maintain Cruising Altitude
Seattle built its dominance on the 2010-12 drafts, but they’ve struggled to match them in recent years.
By David Chill - May 4, 201781 0
Seattle built its dominance in the 2010-12 drafts, but they’ve struggled to match them in recent years
Having had so much success in later rounds, the Seattle Seahawks do not typically trade up to get a high draft choice. They are more likely to be the ones trading down, and stockpiling mid-round picks.
The team of Pete Carroll and John Schneider emerged on the NFL scene in 2010 with a fantastic draft class that brought in Earl Thomas, Kam Chancellor, Russell Okung, and Golden Tate (who eventually left when Percy Harvin was added). Carroll and Schneider burnished their legacy over the next two drafts with an amazing haul that added Richard Sherman, K.J. Wright, Bobby Wagner, Bruce Irvin and Russell Wilson. With these picks, Seattle soared to two consecutive Super Bowls in what felt like a potential dynasty in the making. While they’ve had some moderate draft success since 2014, their end results have paled in comparison to those first three years.
To understand how Seattle identified and corralled such immense talent a few years ago is to look no further than Pete Carroll’s resume. Coming off of nine years of mercurial success at USC, Carroll had a unique opportunity to scout, assess, recruit, and coach against the best talent in college football. He did not need to begin looking at tape a few months before the 2010 draft, he already knew the strengths and weaknesses of so many college players around the nation. He just needed to understand in which round they’d most likely be snatched up. While most NFL coaches start the assessment right after their season ends, Carroll had an eight year head start on everyone; he had known some of these guys since they were freshmen in high school.
Pete Carroll was an All-Conference safety in college, playing for a mid-major, the University of Pacific. He never made it to the NFL, which is not atypical. But Carroll was a great communicator and an enthusiastic learner, traits which led him into a new career and quickly propelled him up the coaching ladder of success. John Schneider’s path was a little different, he entered the NFL as a scout, rising to be head of player personnel for the Packers, Chiefs and Redskins before taking over as General Manager of the Seahawks. The blend of Carroll’s in-depth knowledge of college players combined with Schneider knowing how the NFL works was a winning combination. The 2013 Lombardi trophy is testament to that.
But in recent years, some of the luster has been removed from the Seahawks’ glow. They make the playoffs almost every year, but the past two seasons have resulted in second-round exits. Part of the reason is injuries, part of the reason is the salary cap, which forced some valuable players to depart in free agency. But part of the reason also lies in not drafting with the same astute insights that shined in their first three drafts. As time goes on, Pete Carroll is more and more removed from the college ranks, as would naturally be the case. But part of the reason may also lie in the Seahawks willingness to part with first round draft picks, trading down a few notches in order to stockpile selections in later rounds. Having had great success cherry picking the likes of Russell Wilson, Richard Sherman and Kam Chancellor in the middle rounds, the Seahawk leadership believes it has a keen feel for evaluating talent. In the past four years, that bluster has not been borne out.
Since 2012, the Seahawks have utilized exactly one first round pick, and that was employed to draft offensive tackle Germain Ifedi last year, who, in classic Seahawk manner, was quickly moved to guard. Ifedi won a starting job as a rookie, but his 2016 performance, along with the rest of their young O-line, was far from stellar. The Seahawks have come away with some nice talent in recent drafts, Paul Richardson, Tyler Lockett, Luke Willson, Frank Clark and Cassius Marsh are all good examples. But none of these players can be classified at the same level as a Bobby Wagner or an Earl Thomas. The former are capable football players; the latter are the ones who lead teams to Super Bowl rings.
The most recent Seahawk draft appears to include yet another of a growing list of decent but unspectacular players. Malik McDowell probably holds the greatest promise of star power. The rest have very real deficiencies, although it’s far too early to write anyone off. While few outside of the Pacific Northwest ever thought Richard Sherman could go from an average college wide receiver to an All-Pro NFL cornerback, this type of wild success story just doesn’t happen very often. And in Seattle, boffo drafts are happening less and less. In recent years, few of their late round picks have blossomed.
The idea of ridding a team of first round draft choices is not a unique strategy, and the New England Patriots have utilized this in a fabulous way. But the Patriots have something few teams ever possess, the luxury of a sensational QB talent, an ageless wonder who fits their system to a tee, and can lead good players to do great things. The Seahawks don’t have a Tom Brady, few teams do. What the Seahawks have is a solid team full of aging starters who are beginning to show some wear and tear. The fact Seattle drafted heavily on defensive backs this year speaks to their looking down the road at a world without the Legion of Boom. But whether the likes of Griffin, Hill, Thompson and Tyson can replace Sherman, Thomas, Chancellor and Some-Guy-Named-Moe is doubtful.
Seattle has enough talent to keep making the playoffs for at least a few more years. They have the added bonus of being in a weak division, although the San Francisco 49ers’ draft this year may begin to change that. Other teams are making inroads, as they should, because the draft is meant to be the great equalizer, allowing weak teams to draft first and gobble up the future stars.
It doesn’t always work that way (hello Jaguar fans!), and bringing in good players who fit your system will keep a team on top for a while. But everything levels off in time, and the cruising altitude which the Seahawks have been flying at may start to descend soon. Call it the NFL’s version of gravity. Seattle has soared to great heights through great drafts. Yet nothing lasts forever, and the Seahawks’ mediocre draft performance of late can only lead to a similar mediocrity on the playing field.
http://www.armchairallamericans.com/seahawks-try-maintain-cruising-altitude/
Petey is finding it harder to maintain consistent excellence than to achieve it in the first place. That's a common theme in the NFL. Losing great players to FA, losing coaches and coordinators and having to maintain killer drafts is all part of it. That's why BB is so great.
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As well as meeting the order of magnitude increase in salary demands.
I just won you a title. Pay me or else.
Cheers
Shemp
Upright Member
Seattle represents the way the league is supposed to function. You have success for a couple of years... but it can't be sustained.... so you float down the ladder and some other team gets a crack at success. No team can be successful season after season. It's impossible!
As well as meeting the order of magnitude increase in salary demands.
I just won you a title. Pay me or else.
Cheers
:shrug_n:
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You'll lose some, you'll spend too much too keep some? Thought that my addition was not the same, but rather complimentary to your point. Mea culpa.
Cheers
Yeah, and the league's really trending this way. You get two contracts, one big one if you're lucky, and then you're on the vet-minimum bus once you hit 30, for the rest of the time you're in the league, unless you're a QB.
Basketball has really gotten this way too, but you don't really notice it as much, because players get into the league at 19, and their cap is phoney-baloney.
Hockey doesn't really have the issue, because even though their players play longer, they don't make as much - and baseball players get contracts into their 40s, but that's barely a sport.
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Mazz22
A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies.
Why Richard Sherman can't let go of Seattle's Super Bowl loss
This is interesting/fascinating article from ESPN the Mag. Apparently the Hawks are splitting apart due to the defense not respecting Wilson, http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...rback-richard-sherman-let-go-problem-nfl-2017
This seems to have been underscored with Petey making the decision to throw in SB 49 but has escalated since then with Sherman anyways. And also Wilson getting superstar treatment and not being an elite QB but being treated like one by Petey. Fascinating stuff here.
That Super Bowl play really did tear them apart for reasons just beyond losing the SB. It was symbolic of the team moving toward crowning Wilson as THE guy and that has irked the defense/Sherman apparently.
This is interesting/fascinating article from ESPN the Mag. Apparently the Hawks are splitting apart due to the defense not respecting Wilson, http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...rback-richard-sherman-let-go-problem-nfl-2017
This seems to have been underscored with Petey making the decision to throw in SB 49 but has escalated since then with Sherman anyways. And also Wilson getting superstar treatment and not being an elite QB but being treated like one by Petey. Fascinating stuff here.
That Super Bowl play really did tear them apart for reasons just beyond losing the SB. It was symbolic of the team moving toward crowning Wilson as THE guy and that has irked the defense/Sherman apparently.
Ironic to me that Carroll, as a high school QB, opted to pass (when coach called for a running play), threw an INT and felt the fury of the coach on the sideline.
Can't coach stupid.
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Mazz22
A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies.
That play seems to be referendum on both Wilson and Petey at least in terms of the players. It makes sense now that Lynch went to Oakland. They saw the offense as being handed over to Wislon with that play and really since then the Seattle offense has been more focused on Wilson which IMO is natural as they see him as the franchize guy and no offense is going to be successful in the NFL long term without the top tier QB. The issue is the players don't see Wilson that way which I find fascinating. I am not a big fan of his for many reasons but I do think he is a good fit for that team but it appears they just saw him as a cog and the engine was the D and Lynch. It would seem that the players would like to go back to that or at least have Wilson and offense be more accountable. But good luck with that. Pete the Poodle only knows happy and cart wheels.
Even though this came from ESPN, It is quite an interesting read about the Seahawks and everything that has transpired.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...rback-richard-sherman-let-go-problem-nfl-2017
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...rback-richard-sherman-let-go-problem-nfl-2017
that BSPN article is really good. even if you normally boycott them, read that article
Dwight Schrute
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Someone should paste it when they post links so we don't give them the clicks
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ESPN is the world wide leader in fake news . Why start making sure it's accurate now .
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Mazz22
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Unfortunately for Seattle, this is going to follow them ALL season. Any peep out of Sherman will be front page news about how much he dislikes Petey and Wilson. This is why they really, really needed to trade him and come off their high horse demands.
I find it interesting that Seattle players and execs are having such a hard time getting past Butler's interception in the Super Bowl. The Pats were seconds away <i>from a perfect season</i> and despite it still grating on them when they think about it, the team managed to keep from falling apart, lost another very close Super Bowl to the same opponent four years later, yet become victorious in two more Super Bowls after those heartbreakers.
It's not easy to survive a Super Bowl loss, but somehow you have to move on.
It's not easy to survive a Super Bowl loss, but somehow you have to move on.
+1 for the ESPN diss
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Mazz22
A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies.
I agree but I think this goes back to coaching styles. Petey allowed the players, in particular the LOB and Lynch to run that team. So when he decided to go away from Lynch and pass the ball and a chip was lost, the players felt like he went away from the identity of the team. On top, the core defensive players on that team dislike Wilson a lot apparently so Petey then decided after that loss that the offense would focus more on Wilson and less on the run game which made them more furious especially when the Seattle offense was anemic last year failing to score a TD in 5 games.
With the Pats, there has always been one voice - Bill. There are leaders in the locker room but they march to Bill's orders. In fact, what I find ironic about this whole story is how much the two coaching styles were played up prior to the Super Bowl. I especially remember Kraft saying that Pete was a little too laid back for him. lol.
For sure there is more than one way to coach a team and Petey has had a nice little run the last 5 years but things seem to be falling apart and that is most attributable to his coaching style IMO. You can't let the inmates run the asylum. That will never last.