Mabey offense is the problem.....

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rivshark86

rivshark86

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The Pats have had record setting offenses during the regular season over the past few years, and have revolutionized the passing game with the "Queen" of the field Gronk. However when you look at the offensive performances in the playoff losses in the past 4 years it becomes apparent that something is not translating to post Dec. play.

Ravens 2013: 28-13
Giants 2012: 21-17
Jets 2011: 28-21
Ravens 2011: 33-14

I am not going to go any farther back, but we all know what would await if I were to do so. In the past four years the offense has not put up more that 21 points against these tough defenses. I understand the argument that the team fields a top five offense every year, and resources need to go to defense. I even agree with it to some extent, but even if the D had held opponents to 22 points per game it would not have gotten the job done.
It seems to me the common thread between all of these games is that the opposing defenses have been able to take away the passing game by showing no respect at all to the long game and focusing entirely on the mid and short games. In addition to this not having an outside threat who can get out of bounds to stop the clock makes it harder to get down the field in situations where time is a constraint.
The catch is that Gronk has been out or limited for the last two playoff losses, and his presence could have very well changed everything. Still, with the ever present injuries at the TE position we needed a better backup plan than force feeding Welker, or his new injury prone replacement Danny Amendola.
I have no doubt the Pats will get significant production out of Amendola at points during the regular season, but I wonder if he can hold up down the stretch with the amount of hits he will be taking.

I guess all I'm trying to say is more than anything I like to see the Pats get Tom a big, fast, traditional outside receiver who can get down the field. Spikes, Mayo, and Hightower can stop the run, the pass D will give up yards but it will also get turnovers and key redzone stops. WR is what needs to be adressed in this draft.
 
Gronk goes down, no outside receivers, good defenses shut down the middle threat, etc etc etc....there are times, when you have to win a 17-14 game. We did that in the early 2000's. It always seems like we have a big offensive game in the playoffs and then one where we score low in points. We probably did that back in the superbowl days too, but its probably less noticeable if you win.....if we won the 2007 superbowl 14-10, we would not be really bitching about how little points we scored, all teams......all team....all of them, have those games....and a lot of the times its in the playoffs where if you have a weakness it will be exploited.
 
Gronk is are only physical play maker. That has shown he can make the clutch catches. problem is he has trouble staying heathly. I was surprised they did not use the RB's some more. In the passing games in the AFC championship game. I still want a BIG wr that can make the tough catches in case Gronk goes down again.
 
The way I look at it regarding the playoff losses:

05 - Brady with three turnovers
06 - The defense giving up 32 second half points
07 - Offensive line getting massacred
09 - Everybody
10 - Everybody
11 - Everybody
12 - Everybody

So in this recent era (I consider 2010 the start, that was when they really got back to good drafting), I think there's plenty of blame to go around.

2009, needs no explanation, everyone sucked that day.

2010, the offense was pitiful for three quarters, and even failed on that really long drive in the fourth, and the defense was sad in the fourth, letting that bum Sanchez torch them. They failed to run the ball when the Jets dared them to.

2011, you can name a ton of things. Brady's bad pick, his intentional grounding, the Welker drop, the defense being unable to get off the stinking field, them not getting any of the several balls the Giants put on the ground, field position, etc

2012, the offense not scoring in the red zone, again not running the ball effectively, and the defense letting Flacco torch them.

So there's plenty to go around. I will say, this isn't the early 2000's anymore, so I don't care that the Patriots won a game 17-14 against the Titans. The Ravens won their games 27-9, 38-35, 28-13, and 34-31. No SB champion other than the Dolphins has scored 14 points in the super bowl and won.

Since 2010 the Patriots have scored 21, 45, 23, 17, 41, and 13. It's either blow out a pretender, or massively underperform against a better defense. At times it is painful watching Brady try and just dink and dunk down the field trying to mount a comeback. The Jets and this past Ravens game being the best examples. Unless he plays out of his mind, like he did against the 49ers, they're going to get stopped at some point, because they have little big play potential, especially with Gronk out.

Dante Scarnecchia gets blown daily by Patriots fans, yet when the playoffs roll around, we can't seem to run the ball and at times get destroyed in the trenches. Not saying it's all his fault, but when teams dare you to run the ball, you need to run the ball. Whether it's on McDaniels (as I type this he just called another throw on 3rd and 2), Belichick needing to find better players, whatever, it's a problem.

The defense sucks against the pass, and can't get consistent pressure. That's what happens when you draft everyone who is good against the run and is slow/sucks in coverage. Here's an idea Bill, find some linebackers, corners, and safeties who are good at covering, and find some pass rushers to get after the QB. Stop worrying about the ****ing run. You have enough guys to stop the run. It's 2013, teams are passing more now.

Finally, the return game blows. Hopefully Washington solves that problem. I'm tired of McCourty not getting to the 20.
 
RonBrace said:
The way I look at it regarding the playoff losses:

05 - Brady with three turnovers
06 - The defense giving up 32 second half points
07 - Offensive line getting massacred
09 - Everybody
10 - Everybody
11 - Everybody
12 - Everybody

So in this recent era (I consider 2010 the start, that was when they really got back to good drafting), I think there's plenty of blame to go around.

2009, needs no explanation, everyone sucked that day.

2010, the offense was pitiful for three quarters, and even failed on that really long drive in the fourth, and the defense was sad in the fourth, letting that bum Sanchez torch them. They failed to run the ball when the Jets dared them to.

2011, you can name a ton of things. Brady's bad pick, his intentional grounding, the Welker drop, the defense being unable to get off the stinking field, them not getting any of the several balls the Giants put on the ground, field position, etc

2012, the offense not scoring in the red zone, again not running the ball effectively, and the defense letting Flacco torch them.

So there's plenty to go around. I will say, this isn't the early 2000's anymore, so I don't care that the Patriots won a game 17-14 against the Titans. The Ravens won their games 27-9, 38-35, 28-13, and 34-31. No SB champion other than the Dolphins has scored 14 points in the super bowl and won.

Since 2010 the Patriots have scored 21, 45, 23, 17, 41, and 13. It's either blow out a pretender, or massively underperform against a better defense. At times it is painful watching Brady try and just dink and dunk down the field trying to mount a comeback. The Jets and this past Ravens game being the best examples. Unless he plays out of his mind, like he did against the 49ers, they're going to get stopped at some point, because they have little big play potential, especially with Gronk out.

Dante Scarnecchia gets blown daily by Patriots fans, yet when the playoffs roll around, we can't seem to run the ball and at times get destroyed in the trenches. Not saying it's all his fault, but when teams dare you to run the ball, you need to run the ball. Whether it's on McDaniels (as I type this he just called another throw on 3rd and 2), Belichick needing to find better players, whatever, it's a problem.

The defense sucks against the pass, and can't get consistent pressure. That's what happens when you draft everyone who is good against the run and is slow/sucks in coverage. Here's an idea Bill, find some linebackers, corners, and safeties who are good at covering, and find some pass rushers to get after the QB. Stop worrying about the ****ing run. You have enough guys to stop the run. It's 2013, teams are passing more now.

Finally, the return game blows. Hopefully Washington solves that problem. I'm tired of McCourty not getting to the 20.
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Yeah he needs to be throwing deep balls to our stud outside receivers we have every year.....its like this, if you are going to roll out a 28th ranked passing defense in todays game, you damn sure better be able to have the talent on the other side of the ball to offset it.....but when you are trying to play good defenses with Branch and Lloyd as your outside receivers, a slot guy that is all about catch and run which has been taken away because they do not fear your outside guys and your one guy that can provide this has been hurt at this point of the season the only two times you could have used him in the playoffs....I mean, I see the weakness every year and then everyone screams we need interior dline, so once again we into another season with the same weakness, does it end different this time?
 
grog said:
Rinse and repeat.
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I am not sure the patriots see it as we do though, because they do not ever seem to address it for some reason. I mean I understand our defense looks bad at times, but look at the core of the issue and what comes up in games when we struggle. In 2003 our run game was horrid, so they did something about it in 2004, in 2006 our receivers were horrid so they did something about it, last few years our outside receivers have been not doing much, so.....we go get worse outside receivers???
 
midgar8784 said:
because they do not ever seem to address it for some reason.
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Ocho & Lloyd come to mind. Ocho shit the bed and Lloyd was pretty good. These moves didn't work out in the long run but they did try to address it.
 
AllWorldTE said:
Ocho & Lloyd come to mind. Ocho shit the bed and Lloyd was pretty good. These moves didn't work out in the long run but they did try to address it.
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Rephrase, they have not been successful addressing it. They are trying to address it as cheap as they can, so that might have to do with the lack of success. Not sure what they are doing this year.
 
AllWorldTE said:
I agree. I thought he had a pretty good year.
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But it was the same issue as we had before, Lloyd got little separation and did not really demand over the top support by a safety that could unclog the middle of the field.
 
midgar8784 said:
But it was the same issue as we had before, Lloyd got little separation and did not really demand over the top support by a safety that could unclog the middle of the field.
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Eh...I've long been on record that such concerns are overblown and not factual in many instances.

Gronk is their big guy. No different than when Moss was their big guy. Take either away and it'll effect their offense. Any offense that looses a top ten player will be effected. Guys who demand constant over the top coverage are few and far betwen and cost a shit load of $$$$$$ that the Pats just don't have at their disposal.

Maybe next year Gronk doesn't take a PAT off and makes it to the post-season heathy and this discussion is moot.
 
AllWorldTE said:
Eh...I've long been on record that such concerns are overblown and not factual in many instances.

Gronk is their big guy. No different than when Moss was their big guy. Take either away and it'll effect their offense. Any offense that looses a top ten player will be effected. Guys who demand constant over the top coverage are few and far betwen and cost a shit load of $$$$$$ that the Pats just don't have at their disposal.

Maybe next year Gronk doesn't take a PAT off and makes it to the post-season heathy and this discussion is moot.
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I can see a little drop when an offense has a player go down, but when you have gronk, and then you move on to Amendola and Jones are not your guys, its a long long drop....if Atlanta lost Gonzales to injury, it would hurt a bit, but you know they would get over it with those two outside receivers they have in white and julio jones....it seems like instead of making what was behind gronk stronger, they made it weaker so it would hurt even more if he got hurt.
 
midgar8784 said:
I can see a little drop when an offense has a player go down, but when you have gronk, and then you move on to Amendola and Jones are not your guys, its a long long drop....if Atlanta lost Gonzales to injury, it would hurt a bit, but you know they would get over it with those two outside receivers they have in white and julio jones....it seems like instead of making what was behind gronk stronger, they made it weaker so it would hurt even more if he got hurt.
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And the Gronkless Pats went just as far as the fully stocked Gonzales, White, & Jones Facons. Eh.
 
AllWorldTE said:
And the Gronkless Pats went just as far as the fully stocked Gonzales, White, & Jones Facons. Eh.
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Not because of the offense.....teams lose for different reasons, only one wins all of it....I mean you have to die of something. Lets put it this way, you are getting ready to play the gronkless patriots this year and the atlanta falcons.....who is scaring the hell out of the defensive coordinator the most? If your defense cannot handle slowing down Amendola and Jones then you are not going far anyway.
 
midgar8784 said:
I mean you have to die of something.
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So why is dying because your defense sucks any worse than dying because your top offensive player went down and there was no in his prime Randy Moss standing by to step in?

No one knows right now how things are going to look next season. Getting upset now is crazy. BB always tries to find a way. Even if it means making trades late in camp to build the team he does so.
 
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