Aside from someone like Pepper Johnson, are the Pats really employing the best available coaches to improve areas like dbacks? Have the drafts been that terrible or should coaching be an area of concern? I mean Boyer coached at Bryant and the South Dakota School of Mining or something before joining this staff. Seems to me like this is a big reason they haven't been able to develop and retain quality db's. What have we seen from Patricia that gives us so much confidence? If I'm not mistaken, after Bill and McDaniels, the Pats have a bunch of coaches who are towards the bottom of the league in pay, seems like youth to. Anyone else think this may be an issue?
Patriots defensive positional coaches, problem?
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hahaha ok then. I mean, I don't think anyone would object to having him coach here, I couldn't care less that he coached the Jets, I'm not 14 years old, but the media storm would maybe even outweigh the benefits haha. I do think they need some more experienced guys though
Michigan Dave
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I think the defense is on an upward swing and I envision a top 5-esque showing this coming year. It's taken longer than desired to rebuild based on some misses, but I don't think it's a coaching issue.
Top 5?? Jeez, that's pretty steep no? I mean, are we forgetting that Dennard is still only a second year player? I mean, he was pretty good as the season went on, but he's a small guy for the starting outside corner. Talib will certainly have his injury troubles as well. I do think Jones should take a big step after training with his brother down south, maybe get some violence into those hands. You really have no issue with the lack of experience from the position coaches?
PatsFanLisa
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You have to understand Dave. He goes into the season saying #19-0. His optimism never fades, and he never questions anything that Belichick does. The New England Patriots are the greatest team in the history of the NFL, and Tommy is the GOAT, which I agree with.
So when he says top five, he actually believes that. At the beginning of the baseball season, the Red Sox were going #173-0 in "Michigan Dave" world. ROFL
hahahaha Well I'm all for TB12 GOAT, but I do question Bill sometimes, mostly coaching staff decisions and sometimes free agent dealings, rarely on the field, and never how he handles the locker room. Hey, someone has to play the role of extreme optimist, fine with me. They do have a pretty tough schedule this year though
The Pats defense was already top 10 in points allowed last year. Not sure they can make top 5, but it's not a huge stretch.
Ya it's because they relied on turnovers, as I remember they led the league right? At least in fumbles they did. Turnovers will win you games, but they're not always there, especially in the playoffs when offenses tighten up. I'm not saying they won't improve, I fully expect them to, i just don't want them to have to rely on the big play in order to stop teams
True, they're not something one can count on as far as "we will get x # in this game". It is however a mindset and something that can be practiced so a team can be good at it. They got better letting up big pass plays last year and they WILL have to get even better this year to be a better defense. It's not the yards I'm worried about the most it's that it gives teams more red zone opportunities and stresses the RZ defense more.
Oswlek
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Meh. The whole "you can't rely on turnovers" argument is decidedly weak. NE was also a pretty good red zone team as well in the regular season, particularly in 2011, didn't help much. Everything is reliable, until it ain't. Even the great SF defense allowed 21 first half points to the same offense that NE held to 7 before collapsing in the second half.
As for the question at hand, you need to take a step back. You are analyzing this as if NE has had a gradual decline in defense over the last 4-5 years and trying to find a cause in there. The real source, however, is NE's failed defensive rebuild from 2006-2009 (really, you can go back to 2004 if you want to). Over those seasons, the Pats brought in a ton of bodies, not a one of them working out. This has led to an absence of heading-into-their-prime experienced starters. Holdovers from the old regime held on as well and as long as they could, but obviously that only lasts so long, hence the "gradual" decline.
Now, we are seeing the opposite end of the spectrum, a developing defense still getting their feet wet and learning how to play with each other. In 2012, for example, the defensive elder statesmen were Wilfork, Mayo and McCourty. Think about that for a second and how much it contrasts with 2003, when Mayo would the babe of the LB bunch by at least 2 seasons. And McCourty was even learning a new position last year to boot!
When you watch a football team, you are seeing the sum of their decisions over the last 5-6 years. That's been a drag on the last couple seasons, but it looks like a good thing for the next few.
Michigan Dave
NATIONAL CHAMPION.
I don't think top 5 is a stretch. I'm talking points against, not yards. I think "total defense" is an asinine measure for a defense. I like the front 7 and the main issue again hinges on the secondary. I love McCourty/A. Wilson as a combo. McCourty's really grasped the S position as a playmaker to me and Adrian Wilson brings leadership and experience and I think he has a lot more in the tank than Arizona thought he does. Talib/Dennard/Arrington can be a strength, barring injury. (I am not counting on Ras-IR, but if he gets out of his bubble, suddenly there's depth.)
It's time for that unit as a whole to take the next step and I don't see a reason for them not to make it this year. It isn't just blind optimism as Lisa suggests, it's time to trend upward based on the pieces of the puzzle that are in place.
PatsAddict
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I have to agree regarding Boyer. I have no idea how he still has a job here. I can't think of one DB that has improved on his watch. Regressed? Yep. Improved? Nope.
Michigan Dave
NATIONAL CHAMPION.
Well said. +1
It's dangerous to just assume players are going to improve, we saw the trouble Mccourty had in his 2nd year after a great rookie campaign. I'm not sure how anyone can still be confident in the secondary. To me there's not even a guarantee Adrian Wilson makes the team, that guy seemed to age fast in a matter of a year. To me he'll probably play a lot in the box. I do think Mccourty looked pretty comfortable at safety as the season went on, it just suits him better, he needs to see the whole field in order to be most effective. The whole secondary hinges on the improvement of the pass rush too though which hasn't improved a whole lot at least through free agency. Have to think that Freeney and Abraham are either in rough shape, asking for too much or both the way they're rotting on the market. I don't know, we'll see, I just don't see the effects on the field of great coaching. How do you get torched on a deep ball when you literally know it's coming. And how often do we see these corners fail to turn their damn heads and watch the quarterback instead of drawing the flag. Just the experience on the staff seems like it needs an upgrade, that's all
Michigan Dave
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No, that's pretty much the essence of coaching.
Oh because players can't plateau without proper coaching? Am I wrong in maybe thinking we're seeing some of that the way the defensive backs have been the past handful of years? Butler, guys like Wilhite or Wheatley, there's been so much turnover at the position you're crazy not to think coaching plays at least a part
The "trouble" McCourty had in his second year was mostly due to the switch, in 2011, from what had been primarily zone-read coverage to man/press-man - something McCourty had to learn from the ground up and without the benefit of an off-season.
Boyer was the general "DB Coach" from 2009-2011 and then the duties were split between him and Brian Flores (officially) in 2012 with Boyer coaching the CBs and Flores coaching the safeties. The thing about coaches is that even the best of them aren't miracle workers. For instance, I'm almost certain that they can't fix "stupid" (Merriweather, e.g.).
Boyer was the general "DB Coach" from 2009-2011 and then the duties were split between him and Brian Flores (officially) in 2012 with Boyer coaching the CBs and Flores coaching the safeties. The thing about coaches is that even the best of them aren't miracle workers. For instance, I'm almost certain that they can't fix "stupid" (Merriweather, e.g.).