Poor running game, bad defense, great passing, good special teams, average coaching

[Steve1]

That's what I've seen so far from the Patriots. You have to have a running game to excel in the league. That's my opinion, even in 2011. Now the Bills were ripe for the winning and the Pats were ripe for the losing of that last game, so maybe I can give the Pats a little bit of a break. And as an NFL fan, that was a great game. As a Patriots fan, not so much.

Have to have a good running game and a good defense to win in December and January, etc. So I hope these Pats will improve. I contend the reason the Patriots are passing so much is not only because they have those passing weapons, but because the coaches probably figure the running game in general is bad. Last year the running game was pretty good, with Law Firm good for about 4 yards on every carry. This year, not yet. Even Woodhead didn't run all that well yesterday.

And the pass rush? Not what I expected. Maybe Haynseworth will be back next week and there will be drastic improvement. I'll see it before I believe it.

And lastly, I will not blame Brady for that loss yesterday. That game had way too much put on his shoulders. Way too much. Even the king of quarterbacks can't be expected to lead a team to victory every week, if that team has practically no running game, and such a porous defense. And I say that about the running game even though they amassed about 108 yards. I mean a bunch of them were on that Welker sweep or whatever it was.

Hell, even Welker's great game couldn't bring the Pats a victory.

The Pats are a fun team to watch so far, if you are simply a fan of the passing game. Lots and lots of passes and yards. Like a Marino or Dan Fouts or even a Peyton Manning team. But it rarely leads to a championship. That's my rant for this month. Except of course I hope they win 24-0 next week, or something like that.

 

[midgar8784]

Honestly I like our run game, I think we have good talent, I hate our play calling on defense, they are playing flat out scared and passive. The defense plays like the pats are up 30 in a game. I am in no position to every question the pats or BB, but I have to head scratch at some things.

 

[Claremonster]

Ok.

 

[Steve1]

Honestly I like our run game, I think we have good talent, I hate our play calling on defense, they are playing flat out scared and passive. The defense plays like the pats are up 30 in a game. I am in no position to every question the pats or BB, but I have to head scratch at some things.

Right. They have some talent on defense, and they have the same runners pretty much as last year, and they even have the rookie who did pretty well. And Belichick is a heck of a coach, and always has been. But that game yesterday was surreal, like the sb against the giants, or even that game against Denver a couple of years ago. The Pats to me had that headlights in the eyes look alot yesterday. Even Belichick looked confused and off kilter a more than a little bit.

I fear he knows the team has a poor running game and a poor defense. I mean, throwing the ball on practically every first down is not a sign of confidence in the running game to me. It is what it is. I'm not really blaming the running backs either to tell you the truth. I'll bet they just don't run block that well. Hope they get the full compliment of tight ends and offensive linemen back in the near future! For run blocking

I only fear it a little though because, what the hell, we're only talking about football!

 

[thomas144]

The defense has been an enormous disappointment to me. It would be hard to claim that it has improved at all from last year, which is something I never would have expected based on what we thought they were doing in the pre-season: stocking up on defensive lineman to generate a pass rush. If the Pats can't stop the Raiders running game (and I'm betting they won't), we are going to know how bad this team really is. This year is beginning to remind me of 2002, when they started out so well in the first game or two and then hit a wall and we realized they were too old and slow on defense. Of course it's early.

 

[Smudger]

The running game is fine IMO. They just aren't doing it enough.

He wasn't solely responsible, of course, but that loss was on Brady more than any other single player. When Manning throws a P6 to lose a game we all pile on. I don't see why Brady gets a free pass.

The D - I can't decide whether we're playing soft or whether certain players are just taking time to get used to a different system. i.e. more man for the DBs and different responsibilities for the LBs.

 

[dchester]

The defense has been an enormous disappointment to me. It would be hard to claim that it has improved at all from last year, which is something I never would have expected based on what we thought they were doing in the pre-season: stocking up on defensive lineman to generate a pass rush. If the Pats can't stop the Raiders running game (and I'm betting they won't), we are going to know how bad this team really is. This year is beginning to remind me of 2002, when they started out so well in the first game or two and then hit a wall and we realized they were too old and slow on defense. Of course it's early.

For the most part, across the league the offenses are well ahead of the defenses. While there's no doubt that our defense has been disappointing, I think they will figure this thing out by November.

Until then . . .

 

[midgar8784]

The running game is fine IMO. They just aren't doing it enough.

He wasn't solely responsible, of course, but that loss was on Brady more than any other single player. When Manning throws a P6 to lose a game we all pile on. I don't see why Brady gets a free pass.

The D - I can't decide whether we're playing soft or whether certain players are just taking time to get used to a different system. i.e. more man for the DBs and different responsibilities for the LBs.

Well it was not a superbowl....but I am not sure brady is getting a free pass, at least by nobody here. The problem is though, that people are not worried about Brady or the passing game because that was kind of a freak game from that aspect. If the defense had been shutting all teams down for the past year and then had a game where they gave up a lot of points and yards, then I would not sweat the defense either, but that has not been the case and is still the problem of the team. Going forward that is the worry, not if Brady is going to throw 4 picks.

 

[Oswlek]

The defense has been an enormous disappointment to me. It would be hard to claim that it has improved at all from last year, which is something I never would have expected based on what we thought they were doing in the pre-season: stocking up on defensive lineman to generate a pass rush. If the Pats can't stop the Raiders running game (and I'm betting they won't), we are going to know how bad this team really is. This year is beginning to remind me of 2002, when they started out so well in the first game or two and then hit a wall and we realized they were too old and slow on defense. Of course it's early.

Is this Thomas being Thomas or is Thomas not being Thomas?

This team would kick the ever loving shit out of the 2002 squad. The talent gap between the two is gigantic. NE played a bad game and also were missing a lot of quality players, it happens. But they aren't going to get progressively worse as the season goes on unless even more injuries start piling up.

 

[midgar8784]

Is this Thomas being Thomas or is Thomas not being Thomas?

This team would kick the ever loving shit out of the 2002 squad. The talent gap between the two is gigantic. NE played a bad game and also were missing a lot of quality players, it happens. But they aren't going to get progressively worse as the season goes on unless even more injuries start piling up.

Yeah this, lets not get crazy here, this is by far a better team than the 2002 team in every single way. Like I said, I am worried about the defense, because I know in the long run it can come back to haunt them, but this team is still very good and could beat any team in the league on any given day.

 

[Dman]

Yeah this, lets not get crazy here, this is by far a better team than the 2002 team in every single way. Like I said, I am worried about the defense, because I know in the long run it can come back to haunt them, but this team is still very good and could beat any team in the league on any given day.

Bull Sh1t the 2002 D was a much better D at almost every position...

willie mac, bruschi,ty law, lawer milloy, richard seymore, mike vrabel, otis smith, tebucky jones, bobby hamilton, anthony pleasant, ted johnson, victor green......

the only major downgrade was the POS called Steve Martin...in fact he was the achilles heal of that d...could not stop the run up the middle.

the same personell plus ted washington were dominant the very next season.......

 

[Flagg the Wanderer]

Let me get this straight:
- Brady threw 4 picks, including a pick-6
- The game was lost on a last second FG

And we're blaming the defense & running game for the loss?

1) Coaching/game plan
2) Playcalling
3) Passing game
4) Defense

Note that #3 is almost all Brady, #2 is significantly Brady (since he is changing most plays at the line), and #1 may or may not be accurate depending on #2.

The defense gave up 27. Run the ball 8-9 more times, and take out one of the other 3 picks, and that's more like 17-20. That's fine for most games on this team.

Look, if you want to come out and throw it all over the yard so you can jump out 21-0, that's fine. But leverage that into a running game! When you get spotted 3 TDs, you should be thinking about draws and clearout sweeps, and off tackles and bellys from a single back. Then leverage that uncertaincy and frustration into play action.

It makes you that much harder to defend (even if you aren't effective running), it shortens the amount of time they have to play catch-up by keeping the clock running, and it reduces the risk of catastrophic failure - letting them back into the game via turnovers.

Passing = Head shots
Running = Body shots (the boxing kind, not the partying kind)

You can KO and steer your opponent by going to the head, but it's the body shots that suck the life out of him. Mix it up so he has to respect and defend both. 90% of the purpose of throwing on first down and early in the game is to free up the run both tactically (when the defense fears the pass) and strategically (hopint to play with an early lead).

I've said this before - I wonder what LoLo thinks of this offense? Deep down, I'd bet not much. Contrary-wise, think he liked leading the way for CKCMFD?

I will never stop cheering for the Patriots, and this offense is very pretty to watch.

But I do not like cheering for this team. I *loved* the 2001-2005, even 2006 editions (that one a little less). 2007 was fun, but it never felt right, and hasn't been right since.

We don't have CKCD, but we have Antowain Smith back in the form of Benny. We have at least 2 other outstanding options in Woodhead and Ridley. We have a top 3 roadgrader in Mankins, and are known for attacking out of multiple TE sets, with 2 top 10 (and maybe top 5) TEs in the league. We are dealing with injuries/depth on defense, and need to keep our guys fresh. Of *course* we should feature the pass - we have the best QB ever to strap up. But we can make it more effective, and make our offense more flexible and sound, by running the ball. It plays to our strengths - and our weaknesses - on almost every score.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[Oswlek]

Let me get this straight:
- Brady threw 4 picks, including a pick-6
- The game was lost on a last second FG

And we're blaming the defense & running game for the loss?

1) Coaching/game plan
2) Playcalling
3) Passing game
4) Defense

Note that #3 is almost all Brady, #2 is significantly Brady (since he is changing most plays at the line), and #1 may or may not be accurate depending on #2.

The defense gave up 27. Run the ball 8-9 more times, and take out one of the other 3 picks, and that's more like 17-20. That's fine for most games on this team.

Look, if you want to come out and throw it all over the yard so you can jump out 21-0, that's fine. But leverage that into a running game! When you get spotted 3 TDs, you should be thinking about draws and clearout sweeps, and off tackles and bellys from a single back. Then leverage that uncertaincy and frustration into play action.

It makes you that much harder to defend (even if you aren't effective running), it shortens the amount of time they have to play catch-up by keeping the clock running, and it reduces the risk of catastrophic failure - letting them back into the game via turnovers.

Passing = Head shots
Running = Body shots (the boxing kind, not the partying kind)

You can KO and steer your opponent by going to the head, but it's the body shots that suck the life out of him. Mix it up so he has to respect and defend both. 90% of the purpose of throwing on first down and early in the game is to free up the run both tactically (when the defense fears the pass) and strategically (hopint to play with an early lead).

I've said this before - I wonder what LoLo thinks of this offense? Deep down, I'd bet not much. Contrary-wise, think he liked leading the way for CKCMFD?

I will never stop cheering for the Patriots, and this offense is very pretty to watch.

But I do not like cheering for this team. I *loved* the 2001-2005, even 2006 editions (that one a little less). 2007 was fun, but it never felt right, and hasn't been right since.

We don't have CKCD, but we have Antowain Smith back in the form of Benny. We have at least 2 other outstanding options in Woodhead and Ridley. We have a top 3 roadgrader in Mankins, and are known for attacking out of multiple TE sets, with 2 top 10 (and maybe top 5) TEs in the league. We are dealing with injuries/depth on defense, and need to keep our guys fresh. Of *course* we should feature the pass - we have the best QB ever to strap up. But we can make it more effective, and make our offense more flexible and sound, by running the ball. It plays to our strengths - and our weaknesses - on almost every score.
Posted via Mobile Device

It should be noted that the team entered the game with one TE and two OTs. That could have impacted their decision making. The reults of this game + a little more health and I suspect the running game we all want will emerge at some point this year.

I just hope the team doesn't forget about it in January, though.

 

[Oswlek]

Bull Sh1t the 2002 D was a much better D at almost every position...

willie mac, bruschi,ty law, lawer milloy, richard seymore, mike vrabel, otis smith, tebucky jones, bobby hamilton, anthony pleasant, ted johnson, victor green......

the only major downgrade was the POS called Steve Martin...in fact he was the achilles heal of that d...could not stop the run up the middle.

the same personell plus ted washington were dominant the very next season.......

Same personnel? The secondary was almost completely overhauled.

That 2002 defense was dreadful, I don't care what the names on their jerseys were.

 

[midgar8784]

Let me get this straight:
- Brady threw 4 picks, including a pick-6
- The game was lost on a last second FG

And we're blaming the defense & running game for the loss?

1) Coaching/game plan
2) Playcalling
3) Passing game
4) Defense

Note that #3 is almost all Brady, #2 is significantly Brady (since he is changing most plays at the line), and #1 may or may not be accurate depending on #2.

The defense gave up 27. Run the ball 8-9 more times, and take out one of the other 3 picks, and that's more like 17-20. That's fine for most games on this team.

Look, if you want to come out and throw it all over the yard so you can jump out 21-0, that's fine. But leverage that into a running game! When you get spotted 3 TDs, you should be thinking about draws and clearout sweeps, and off tackles and bellys from a single back. Then leverage that uncertaincy and frustration into play action.

It makes you that much harder to defend (even if you aren't effective running), it shortens the amount of time they have to play catch-up by keeping the clock running, and it reduces the risk of catastrophic failure - letting them back into the game via turnovers.

Passing = Head shots
Running = Body shots (the boxing kind, not the partying kind)

You can KO and steer your opponent by going to the head, but it's the body shots that suck the life out of him. Mix it up so he has to respect and defend both. 90% of the purpose of throwing on first down and early in the game is to free up the run both tactically (when the defense fears the pass) and strategically (hopint to play with an early lead).

I've said this before - I wonder what LoLo thinks of this offense? Deep down, I'd bet not much. Contrary-wise, think he liked leading the way for CKCMFD?

I will never stop cheering for the Patriots, and this offense is very pretty to watch.

But I do not like cheering for this team. I *loved* the 2001-2005, even 2006 editions (that one a little less). 2007 was fun, but it never felt right, and hasn't been right since.

We don't have CKCD, but we have Antowain Smith back in the form of Benny. We have at least 2 other outstanding options in Woodhead and Ridley. We have a top 3 roadgrader in Mankins, and are known for attacking out of multiple TE sets, with 2 top 10 (and maybe top 5) TEs in the league. We are dealing with injuries/depth on defense, and need to keep our guys fresh. Of *course* we should feature the pass - we have the best QB ever to strap up. But we can make it more effective, and make our offense more flexible and sound, by running the ball. It plays to our strengths - and our weaknesses - on almost every score.
Posted via Mobile Device

Nobody is blaming the D for the loss....everyone is worried about the D going forward than they are the offense. I thought that was kinda made clear about 500 times on here. I do not think that Brady will throw 4 ints every game, but can I say that he defense will stop an offense or even slow them down? Nope. We are looking at big picture rather than one game, because so far I have not seen the defense get better and we are getting less and less pressure on the QB. Going forward, the offense is not our problem. If you score 30 points 11 straight times, you can win those games. Going foward we can blame the offense for every loss, because if they perform bad this team will lose, if they turn the ball over the team will lose.

 

[Dman]

Same personnel? The secondary was almost completely overhauled.

That 2002 defense was dreadful, I don't care what the names on their jerseys were.

whoops i sas thinking 2004 was the harrison/wilson year...

still the point stands 2002 D>>>than 2011 in its talent...and i suspect by the end of the year by its performance.......

fyi 10th best d in football in 2002, gave up 21ppg.....the 2011D..is not going to be even close..

 

[grog]

Is this Thomas being Thomas or is Thomas not being Thomas?

This team would kick the ever loving shit out of the 2002 squad. The talent gap between the two is gigantic. NE played a bad game and also were missing a lot of quality players, it happens. But they aren't going to get progressively worse as the season goes on unless even more injuries start piling up.

I disagree. I think 2002 had more talent.

My hope is that this defense can get good enough by the end of the season to at least be called average. They are well below good now, so that would be a huge improvement. I think we can go far in the playoffs with an average defense and the offense we have, but if the D keeps grading out at D or F, we have little hope...

 

[midgar8784]

I disagree. I think 2002 had more talent.

My hope is that this defense can get good enough by the end of the season to at least be called average. They are well below good now, so that would be a huge improvement. I think we can go far in the playoffs with an average defense and the offense we have, but if the D keeps grading out at D or F, we have little hope...

I do not care what talent there was, the 2002 D was awful, with that said, the offense was not great either.

 

[Oswlek]

I disagree. I think 2002 had more talent.

My hope is that this defense can get good enough by the end of the season to at least be called average. They are well below good now, so that would be a huge improvement. I think we can go far in the playoffs with an average defense and the offense we have, but if the D keeps grading out at D or F, we have little hope...

If you want to look at it with the benefit of hindsight, sure. But in 2002, Tedy was in his first full year at ILB. Vrabes hadn't quite emerged yet. Martin (and his replacements) were so bad that the entire DL looked terrible because of it. Milloy had zeros across the board, Tebucky dropped like a rock and O.T.I.S got old overnight.

They had the seeds of a great defense, but they were quite terrible as it were.

 

[midgar8784]

whoops i sas thinking 2004 was the harrison/wilson year...

still the point stands 2002 D>>>than 2011 in its talent...and i suspect by the end of the year by its performance.......

fyi 10th best d in football in 2002, gave up 21ppg.....the 2011D..is not going to be even close..

Maybe on defense, not on offense. We could not score enough to overcome the bad play by the D in 2002, we probably could now.