The NFL 2023 Draft

ParanoidPatriot

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I'm kind of obsessed with the possibility of coaching up Georgia TE Darnell Washington. Drafting that kid would almost be like being in a base 6 man OL, except the tackle-eligible runs a 4.6 and highpoints the ball with a 6'7" frame.

But draft season be like that. I know it's not about the physical metrics.
He has been on my radar for a while. However, he's not even the best TE on GA team. They have a Gronk like Sophomore who is their #1 TE.
However Washington can be an excellent TE and be a much bigger factor as a pro than he was in college.
 

Hawg73

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I actually initially typed Marcus Jones instead of Thornton, but thought I was a little overboard with my man crush on Marcus Jones this year, so I backed it up...

What? I told you he's all mine, so keep your hands off!!!

I keep thinking that some big national person is going to write the story of what Marcus did this year and put it in context, which isn't going to
be easy.
 

Flagg the Wanderer

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He has been on my radar for a while. However, he's not even the best TE on GA team. They have a Gronk like Sophomore who is their #1 TE.
However Washington can be an excellent TE and be a much bigger factor as a pro than he was in college.
Best in college? No. Highest pro ceiling? Debatable. Get Washington some focused coaching of his route running and blocking technique, some maturity/discipline/professionalism, and see what sort of matchup problems you can create with 6'7"/270+ @ 4.6 40. Assuming he actually runs that, his potential is Gronkian.

But more to the point, this is the 2023 thread and Bowers isn't available.
 

DropKickFlutie

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If they get O'Brien it makes a ton of sense. That's sort of his jam. Matchup problems generally, but TEs specifically.

Agree O’Brien is the architect behind the explosive 2TE offense. and they have Hunter and Jonnu who will make a combined $30M next year
 

Flagg the Wanderer

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Agree O’Brien is the architect behind the explosive 2TE offense. and they have Hunter and Jonnu who will make a combined $30M next year
Right, which is more of a reason to look for TEs. You can't build an offense that uses them as a focal point without at least one viable backup, and if you do and it succeeds, you're either giving them all the leverage in the world or assuming you're going to scrap it as soon as they move on for whatever reason.

Adding one or more backups/heirs apparent/future upgrades is necessary if you're going to build anything around them. Else one of them is just an extremely expensive change of pace/backup, and both have you over an extremely uncomfortable barrel, even though neither is elite.

Two distinct schools of thought in considering team strengths and weaknesses: 1) minimizing exploitable weaknesses vs 2) maximizing strengths. And the second comes in two variants: 2a) maximizing the number of areas of relative strength, and 2b) maximizing the degree of dominance at a given critical area. You could even subdivide 2b) into a single player (say, signing Justin Jefferson to have the advantage in any given 1 on 1) vs making a positional group dominant (say by signing 2 low end #1s, and 3 solid #2s to know that you will always have an advantage in at least one of the 1v1s.)

Obviously it's always a tradeoff among those paths. But it's not smart to design around something you don't have a clear path to locking up or replacing.
 

DropKickFlutie

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Right, which is more of a reason to look for TEs. You can't build an offense that uses them as a focal point without at least one viable backup, and if you do and it succeeds, you're either giving them all the leverage in the world or assuming you're going to scrap it as soon as they move on for whatever reason.

Adding one or more backups/heirs apparent/future upgrades is necessary if you're going to build anything around them. Else one of them is just an extremely expensive change of pace/backup, and both have you over an extremely uncomfortable barrel, even though neither is elite.

Two distinct schools of thought in considering team strengths and weaknesses: 1) minimizing exploitable weaknesses vs 2) maximizing strengths. And the second comes in two variants: 2a) maximizing the number of areas of relative strength, and 2b) maximizing the degree of dominance at a given critical area. You could even subdivide 2b) into a single player (say, signing Justin Jefferson to have the advantage in any given 1 on 1) vs making a positional group dominant (say by signing 2 low end #1s, and 3 solid #2s to know that you will always have an advantage in at least one of the 1v1s.)

Obviously it's always a tradeoff among those paths. But it's not smart to design around something you don't have a clear path to locking up or replacing.

ok
don’t disagree that a third developmental TE is fine. But acknowledging this person is definitely not a starter for awhile since we’re stuck with immovable huge contracts with Jonnu and Henry. And also noting other priorities are more important to fill (actual starting role gaps) in OT, CB1, FS, MLB.
 

aloyouis

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ok
don’t disagree that a third developmental TE is fine. But acknowledging this person is definitely not a starter for awhile since we’re stuck with immovable huge contracts with Jonnu and Henry. And also noting other priorities are more important to fill (actual starting role gaps) in OT, CB1, FS, MLB.
Wait!

Are you telling us that you think that Jonnu Smith and Hunter Henry are overpaid?

Why didn’t you mention this before?
 

sg14

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I'm kind of obsessed with the possibility of coaching up Georgia TE Darnell Washington. Drafting that kid would almost be like being in a base 6 man OL, except the tackle-eligible runs a 4.6 and highpoints the ball with a 6'7" frame.

But draft season be like that. I know it's not about the physical metrics.
What's your policy on 40 time? Say he runs a 4.9 40 at the combine? Still a second round selection?
Or any value of 40 time?
 

sg14

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Noticed this OT playing for Kentucky, one of the better Olineman on a good Oline. His resume is one for a very good human.
Figured it was worth sharing. Probably a later round pick.
 

Flagg the Wanderer

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What's your policy on 40 time? Say he runs a 4.9 40 at the combine? Still a second round selection?
Or any value of 40 time?
That would surprise me, having seen his on-field speed. My guess would be in the mid-to-high 4.7s.

But to answer your question, a 4.9 flat wouldn't bother me too much if paired with an average or better vertical. Then he'd still be very hard to deal with in the low red zone - brutal blocking at the point of attack and able to get to the second level, but able to break off and make a high-point almost indefensible.
 

DropKickFlutie

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Drafting a TE with a high pick to sit behind 2 veteran expensive TEs, after squandering 2 3rd round picks fairly recently, would be as nonsensical as spending a 2nd on Thornton to sit behind 6 other well established WR/TE pass catchers already on the team. There are a lot of starter-holes to fill first elsewhere before burning a pick on a TE that won’t play for 2+ years
 

spacecrime

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Drafting a TE with a high pick to sit behind 2 veteran expensive TEs, after squandering 2 3rd round picks fairly recently, would be as nonsensical as spending a 2nd on Thornton to sit behind 6 other well established WR/TE pass catchers already on the team. There are a lot of starter-holes to fill first elsewhere before burning a pick on a TE that won’t play for 2+ years
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAAKPJEq1Ew
 

spacecrime

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Right, which is more of a reason to look for TEs. You can't build an offense that uses them as a focal point without at least one viable backup, and if you do and it succeeds, you're either giving them all the leverage in the world or assuming you're going to scrap it as soon as they move on for whatever reason.

Adding one or more backups/heirs apparent/future upgrades is necessary if you're going to build anything around them. Else one of them is just an extremely expensive change of pace/backup, and both have you over an extremely uncomfortable barrel, even though neither is elite.

Two distinct schools of thought in considering team strengths and weaknesses: 1) minimizing exploitable weaknesses vs 2) maximizing strengths. And the second comes in two variants: 2a) maximizing the number of areas of relative strength, and 2b) maximizing the degree of dominance at a given critical area. You could even subdivide 2b) into a single player (say, signing Justin Jefferson to have the advantage in any given 1 on 1) vs making a positional group dominant (say by signing 2 low end #1s, and 3 solid #2s to know that you will always have an advantage in at least one of the 1v1s.)

Obviously it's always a tradeoff among those paths. But it's not smart to design around something you don't have a clear path to locking up or replacing.
I lived in Maryland back in the 70's when Ted marchibroda was HC of the Colts, and he always said his aim was to strengthen his strengths, make the Colts totally and completely dominate in at least one phase of the game,
 

Flagg the Wanderer

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Drafting a TE with a high pick to sit behind 2 veteran expensive TEs, after squandering 2 3rd round picks fairly recently, would be as nonsensical as spending a 2nd on Thornton to sit behind 6 other well established WR/TE pass catchers already on the team. There are a lot of starter-holes to fill first elsewhere before burning a pick on a TE that won’t play for 2+ years
Or it's a thing you do when a certain result is critical and what you've been doing to address it hasn't been successful. You know, keep trying to get it right.

How much you've spent on it so far is only relevant when evaluating how to improve your odds of success on the next attempt. Sunk costs are sunk. You have the cap room and assets you have to work with, and the future ahead of you, period. Solve the problem. If high end TE play is critical to your plans and you've failed, what do you need to do different to succeed?

Remember, Belichick is the guy who said that if football is like chess, the tight end is the queen.
 

DropKickFlutie

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Or it's a thing you do when a certain result is critical and what you've been doing to address it hasn't been successful. You know, keep trying to get it right.

How much you've spent on it so far is only relevant when evaluating how to improve your odds of success on the next attempt. Sunk costs are sunk. You have the cap room and assets you have to work with, and the future ahead of you, period. Solve the problem. If high end TE play is critical to your plans and you've failed, what do you need to do different to succeed?

Remember, Belichick is the guy who said that if football is like chess, the tight end is the queen.

I’m a big proponent of the TE spot. It’s critical to confusing an opposing defense and keeping them on their toes. But chasing the same position over and over is a sign of a failing losing organization. Hunter Henry was a top6 NFL TE when signed and Jonnu Smith was the best YAC TE the year he was signed.
 
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chevss454

chevss454

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I’m a big proponent of the TE spot. It’s critical to confusing an opposing defense and keeping them on their toes. But chasing the same position over and over is a sign of a failing losing organization. Hunter Henry was a top6 NFL TE when signed and Jonnu Smith was the best YAC TE the year he was signed.

Then it's incumbent on the new OC to get the most out of them while also helping Mac to succeed.
 

DropKickFlutie

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Then it's incumbent on the new OC to get the most out of them while also helping Mac to succeed.

Yes. So:
  • Get the OLine to play better, especially pass protection
  • Get both Hunter Henry and Jonnu Smith to be worth their massive contracts
  • Maintain a strong running game
  • Fix Mac Jones
  • Maximize existing receivers Meyers (assuming he’s back), Bourne, Thornton, and Parker.
A lot above to do first before wasting resources on a 3rd developmental tight end
 
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