Week 14 Other Games Thread

Share this page

HipKat said:

View: https://twitter.com/Schnickl3/status/1470198036332691456?s=20






View: https://twitter.com/BrandonPerna/status/1470195138643173376?s=20
Click to expand...

I've never seen the refs so one sided as they have been against the poor Bills in the last 2 games.
It seems like every time the Bills get behind, by poor play and stepping on their own dicks, and then try to make a furious comback, and make poor choices under pressure, the refs wouldn't bail them out by making questionable calls in their favor.
Why would they do that?
 
TyLawsPick6 said:
He fumbles once or twice a game. He has talent, but he thinks he’s in college still.

I just don’t trust OSU NFL players for a variety of reasons.
Click to expand...
I wrote that before he threw 2 picks and had lost a fumble.
Still looking like Mac is the crown jewel of the draft class.
 
Hawg73 said:
I don't know if Buffalo can beat the 39-point gap KC hung on the Raiders, but I Billeive.

Tons of blowouts today.
Click to expand...

So, I made this post yesterday and about a minute later Buffalo scored a TD and went on to make a game of it. Earlier, I turned off the Cowboys game because Washington was obviously well out of it and they came back to make it tight. Cleveland is crushing Baltimore who loses their QB and the Ravens roar back. The fucking Bears score 27 on 9-3 Green Bay in the first half and that's about a two-week total for them, before Green Bay puts them away to look exactly like every Packers team for the last 3 years. They are good, but not good enough to win the NFC. I learned that a blowout can only be declared when the game is over and one actually occurs-- not at halftime.

But, the story of the day was how the Bills psychological death after getting brain-whipped by Sun Tzu Belichick was premature. They don't hate their Coach, like most of Patriot Nation figured or perhaps they are just ignoring him and following their hardo QB, Josh Allen, who has zero quit in him.

No more predictions for me. I can't fathom anything and have never been gladder that I'm not dumb enough to bet real money on the NFL or by now I'd be living under a bridge somewhere.

I know it happened last Thursday, so it was technically week 13, but I keep thinking about the end of that game as an example of where the NFL is these days. The Steelers were down by 8 points and Old Ben completed a pass to Chase Claypool who took it down around the Vikings 20 with 23 seconds left and no time outs to work with. So, Claypool decides that, for some reason, it is a great time to pose and do the old first down pantomine dance while the clock is still ticking away towards zero and his team still has a slim chance to tie it up. One of their OLs, number 55, shoves him and yells at him to get lined up and I can't get the incredible stupidity of that moment out of my head. What Mike Tomlin thought about it is unknown to me, but it's not like it was a particularly isolated incident during this season. I keep seeing dumb shit everywhere I look.

How can you not care like that? If it happened to a Patriot, his stuff would be in a cardboard box before he got out of the shower.
 
D2maine said:
so so predictable - its always the refs, every team that ever loses to the pats or brady got screwed by the refs. You lost because you sucked in the first half and let tompa bay get a huge lead. you came back because tompa bay forgot that the bills cannot stop the run and tompa refused to be disciplined in their pas rush.
Click to expand...
Yeah those pictures of Bills' receivers jerseys being half ripped off of them don't point to referees who are incompetent at all. I understand that referees are going to make mistakes and they're going to miss calls but there were two flagrant pass interference calls in that game both, in the end zone that didn't get called. Not to mention the obvious roughing the passer call on Josh Allen that didn't call. There were two last week that didn't either. Last week doesn't bother me so much because that officiating team is known to sit on their whistles.

When officials make obvious mistakes that are game altering, that's a problem and I have said this for years, since of you people in New England are shielded keep from the obvious but the rest of the league knows that Tom Brady has been coddled by this fucking league for most of his career. What happened in that game last night was not anything new nor coincidental
 
HipKat said:
Yeah those pictures of Bills' receivers jerseys being half ripped off of them don't point to referees who are incompetent at all. I understand that referees are going to make mistakes and they're going to miss calls but there were two flagrant pass interference calls in that game both, in the end zone that didn't get called. Not to mention the obvious roughing the passer call on Josh Allen that didn't call. There were two last week that didn't either. Last week doesn't bother me so much because that officiating team is known to sit on their whistles.

When officials make obvious mistakes that are game altering, that's a problem and I have said this for years, since of you people in New England are shielded keep from the obvious but the rest of the league knows that Tom Brady has been coddled by this fucking league for most of his career. What happened in that game last night was not anything new nor coincidental
Click to expand...
In fairness, the roughing the passer, guys like Allen, Newton and Big Ben because they are bigger and more physical, defenses tend to tee off on them a bit more and refs don't call it as much because of their physical nature. However and I agree with you, the refs need to be consistent there is a huge lack of it with the refs.

As for the PI calls, if it didn't impede the receiver from catching the pass, did grabbing the jersey hold the receivers arms down or stop him from running his route? Then I would say it wasn't PI. I would say that if the call or non call was against the Pats as well. Grabbing a jersey to me isn't PI, physically impeding the receiver from trying to catch the ball (See NFCCG Saints/Rams) then I just don't see it as PI.
 
Last edited:
HipKat said:
Yeah those pictures of Bills' receivers jerseys being half ripped off of them don't point to referees who are incompetent at all. I understand that referees are going to make mistakes and they're going to miss calls but there were two flagrant pass interference calls in that game both, in the end zone that didn't get called. Not to mention the obvious roughing the passer call on Josh Allen that didn't call. There were two last week that didn't either. Last week doesn't bother me so much because that officiating team is known to sit on their whistles.

When officials make obvious mistakes that are game altering, that's a problem and I have said this for years, since of you people in New England are shielded keep from the obvious but the rest of the league knows that Tom Brady has been coddled by this fucking league for most of his career. What happened in that game last night was not anything new nor coincidental
Click to expand...
Not trying to pick on you here, legitimately curious. What do you think constitutes pass interference, and why do you think it applies to those plays? What do you think constitutes roughing the passer, and why do you think it applied to that play? I'll gladly hear the argument that the refs made critical and obvious errors, and that it's a pattern. But the first part of that is, was it actually an error? I hope you humor me and answer as I am legitimately curious as to the reasoning here. I know the rules fairly well (better than the commenting staff typically, unfortunately) and watched most of that game, and I didn't see anything egregious, but maybe I missed something.

As an aside, something which legitimately bothers me, and I don't know why the NFL continues to allow it to be a thing. When the commenters spend half the game, rather than talking about Xs and Os and educating the viewers, on opining on if something should or should not be a penalty. Most of the time too they're flagrantly wrong, and they even have a person specifically to consult on that yet they still act like they know the rules better than the referees getting paid $250k per year to officiate the games. Meanwhile, because they don't know the rules, they're at the level of most barroom fans, just opining 'that should be a penalty' or 'that wasn't a penalty, I didn't see it', without ever once actually quoting what the rule is or understanding how it should be applied. It's one of the primary factors that makes the games practically unwatchable for me, and it's why I almost always watch the games on mute.
 
Giant Octopodes said:
Not trying to pick on you here, legitimately curious. What do you think constitutes pass interference, and why do you think it applies to those plays? What do you think constitutes roughing the passer, and why do you think it applied to that play? I'll gladly hear the argument that the refs made critical and obvious errors, and that it's a pattern. But the first part of that is, was it actually an error? I hope you humor me and answer as I am legitimately curious as to the reasoning here. I know the rules fairly well (better than the commenting staff typically, unfortunately) and watched most of that game, and I didn't see anything egregious, but maybe I missed something.

As an aside, something which legitimately bothers me, and I don't know why the NFL continues to allow it to be a thing. When the commenters spend half the game, rather than talking about Xs and Os and educating the viewers, on opining on if something should or should not be a penalty. Most of the time too they're flagrantly wrong, and they even have a person specifically to consult on that yet they still act like they know the rules better than the referees getting paid $250k per year to officiate the games. Meanwhile, because they don't know the rules, they're at the level of most barroom fans, just opining 'that should be a penalty' or 'that wasn't a penalty, I didn't see it', without ever once actually quoting what the rule is or understanding how it should be applied. It's one of the primary factors that makes the games practically unwatchable for me, and it's why I almost always watch the games on mute.
Click to expand...
The number one thing to go by is precedence. Quarterbacks are being treated with kid gloves. Twice last week and once last night, after releasing the ball, Josh Allen was hit and driven to the turf and it was not called. We have all seen quarterbacks take much less from defenders and flags be thrown for roughing the passer.

When a corner is pulling on a receiver's jersey, if that isn't pass interference then it's at least illegal contact or holding. That's how it should be called and that's how it is normally called
 
That last penalty was pretty suspect considering a very similar play in the end zone happened with Diggs with a no call.

Not that I'm complaining about the result, but if I were a Bills fan (god forbid) I'd be pretty miffed about the reffing. Had they called it consistently the Bucs would have needed to punt and Allen would've gotten another shot.

Aside from the end of the game pass Brady had a pretty mediocre second half. It seemed like the Bills defense really disrupted the timing on the routes. Had Bills defense played like that even for part of the 1st half they would have won this game without much of an issue.

You could see this in two ways -- one is that they clawed back and Allen basically put the team on his back. But another way to see it is that Bills are very inconsistent and that inconsistency is costing them a lot these important games. That said, this seemed to be a league-wide issue. Browns, Cowboys, Bucs, Niners all had sizeable leads going into the 4th only to fall apart. They all won, but it was much closer than it should have been.
 
I'll agree that Allen and Ben/Cam may take harder hits and it's not called vs. old man brady or a less physical QB. The calls seem so erratic and if the PI calls in bucs v. bills was a pats game and pats were getting the "Bills" end of things, I'd likely be bitching.
 
Hawg73 said:
So, I made this post yesterday and about a minute later Buffalo scored a TD and went on to make a game of it. Earlier, I turned off the Cowboys game because Washington was obviously well out of it and they came back to make it tight. Cleveland is crushing Baltimore who loses their QB and the Ravens roar back. The fucking Bears score 27 on 9-3 Green Bay in the first half and that's about a two-week total for them, before Green Bay puts them away to look exactly like every Packers team for the last 3 years. They are good, but not good enough to win the NFC. I learned that a blowout can only be declared when the game is over and one actually occurs-- not at halftime.

But, the story of the day was how the Bills psychological death after getting brain-whipped by Sun Tzu Belichick was premature. They don't hate their Coach, like most of Patriot Nation figured or perhaps they are just ignoring him and following their hardo QB, Josh Allen, who has zero quit in him.

No more predictions for me. I can't fathom anything and have never been gladder that I'm not dumb enough to bet real money on the NFL or by now I'd be living under a bridge somewhere.

I know it happened last Thursday, so it was technically week 13, but I keep thinking about the end of that game as an example of where the NFL is these days. The Steelers were down by 8 points and Old Ben completed a pass to Chase Claypool who took it down around the Vikings 20 with 23 seconds left and no time outs to work with. So, Claypool decides that, for some reason, it is a great time to pose and do the old first down pantomine dance while the clock is still ticking away towards zero and his team still has a slim chance to tie it up. One of their OLs, number 55, shoves him and yells at him to get lined up and I can't get the incredible stupidity of that moment out of my head. What Mike Tomlin thought about it is unknown to me, but it's not like it was a particularly isolated incident during this season. I keep seeing dumb shit everywhere I look.

How can you not care like that? If it happened to a Patriot, his stuff would be in a cardboard box before he got out of the shower.
Click to expand...
I'm glad you have made predictions,
When the Pats were 2-4, you were the only person on here predicting a good season for the team.
You should have put money on that.
 
HipKat said:
The number one thing to go by is precedence. Quarterbacks are being treated with kid gloves. Twice last week and once last night, after releasing the ball, Josh Allen was hit and driven to the turf and it was not called. We have all seen quarterbacks take much less from defenders and flags be thrown for roughing the passer.

When a corner is pulling on a receiver's jersey, if that isn't pass interference then it's at least illegal contact or holding. That's how it should be called and that's how it is normally called
Click to expand...
While I agree the game should be called consistently, the rule for roughing the passer is not "someone took a similar hit previously and it was called". Without knowing the quarter and play or timestamp of the hits in question I can only speculate, so forgive me if I'm missing something here. The one I've seen folks talking about is the one where the defender literally jumped on Allen's back, so I'll use that one as a reference. If what I'm saying doesn't apply to the plays you're thinking of, just let me know what those plays are and I can take a look so we're discussing the same thing. Roughing the Passer constitutes the following:

a) "Roughing will be called if, in the Referee’s judgment, a pass rusher clearly should have known that the ball had already left the passer’s hand before contact was made." Doesn't apply here, he was still holding the ball, looking to throw.
b) "A rushing defender is prohibited from committing such intimidating and punishing acts as “stuffing” a passer into the ground or unnecessarily wrestling or driving him down after the passer has thrown the ball, even if the rusher makes his initial contact with the passer within the one-step limitation provided for in (a) above. When tackling a passer who is in a defenseless posture (e.g., during or just after throwing a pass), a defensive player must not unnecessarily or violently throw him down or land on top of him with all or most of the defender’s weight. Instead, the defensive player must strive to fall to the side of the quarterback’s body, or to brace his fall with his arms to avoid landing on the quarterback with all or most of his body weight."
c) "In covering the passer position, Referees will be particularly alert to fouls in which defenders impermissibly use the helmet and/or facemask to hit the passer, or use hands, arms, or other parts of the body to hit the passer forcibly in the head or neck area" Doesn't apply here, not aware of any claims of a hit to the head or neck area which wasn't called.
d) "A rushing defender is prohibited from forcibly hitting in the knee area or below a passer who has one or both feet on the ground, even if the initial contact is above the knee." Again doesn't apply, wasn't in the knee area or below.
e) "A passer who is standing still or fading backward after the ball has left his hand is obviously out of the play and must not be unnecessarily contacted by an opponent through the end of the down or until the passer becomes a blocker, or a runner, or, in the event of a change of possession during the down, until he assumes a distinctly defensive position" Again doesn't apply, ball hadn't left his hand.
f) "When the passer goes outside the pocket area and either continues moving with the ball (without attempting to advance the ball as a runner) or throws while on the run, he loses the protection of..." Again doesn't apply, he wasn't out of the pocket.
g) "The Referee must blow the play dead as soon as the passer is clearly in the grasp and control of any tackler behind the line, and the passer's safety is in jeopardy"

All bolding mine. Rules for reference are here: https://operations.nfl.com/media/5427/2021-nfl-rulebook.pdf

The only two which are debatable are g and b, for the play in question. However, they get into the crux of the issue - the reason it seems like there's different rules for the Roethlisbergers and Allens of the world vs for the Bradys and Rivers of the world is because that is in fact the case. The rules determine whether or not roughing the passer occurred by whether you were using more force than necessary to tackle the person in question. If they're folding like a cheap table and you stuff them into the ground with your weight, that's a penalty. If you're putting all your weight on them like a monkey clinging to their back and they're still walking around trying to make a play, then you have not unnecessarily put your weight on them, clearly it's necessary and not enough! If you've got them in control, the play is dead, the whistle is to be blown, and no further contact should occur. If they're still walking around dragging you with them because they're big and strong enough, you're not in their control!

The long and short of it is, you're allowed to tackle them, with the amount of force needed to effectuate that tackle. Josh Allen doesn't fold on contact, instead choosing to 'stand strong' and try to make a play with folks all over him. That's admirable and all, but then it also means the defenders are allowed to use the amount of force needed to actually take him down.

The PI I'll get into later, limited on time, but curious if you see things differently than I regarding the Roughing the Passer part of it. Were there plays I missed where the rules, as described above, were not applied, where Josh Allen was in fact going down and folding like a cheap table but defenders were landing with their weight on him anyways? Or plays with hits to the head or knee areas not called, or plays where he was hit long after the ball was gone? I didn't see any so very curious if I missed something there.

Edit: If you need a reference to find the play, here's the play by play: Bills vs. Buccaneers - Play-By-Play - December 12, 2021 - ESPN I can and will gladly pull up whatever play in gamepass just need to know which one.
 
Last edited:
Meant to add..... that Bucs game seems to be what the Bills built themselves for - lots of passing and (trying) to defend that pass. losing whats-his-name (white?) hurts that obviously.
surprised buc's didn't run more. not sure if Bills improved their run D (despite that one log TD run) or bucs just not built to run or just wanted to pass it all day

next time Bills play a team that can pound it, we'll see. next Pats v. Bills will be interesting for sure!
 
Patriots44 said:
Meant to add..... that Bucs game seems to be what the Bills built themselves for - lots of passing and (trying) to defend that pass. losing whats-his-name (white?) hurts that obviously.
surprised buc's didn't run more. not sure if Bills improved their run D (despite that one log TD run) or bucs just not built to run or just wanted to pass it all day

next time Bills play a team that can pound it, we'll see. next Pats v. Bills will be interesting for sure!
Click to expand...
One of my complaints this year is that the bills have mysteriously tried to be this power running team, which is asinine considering they have a terrible offensive line and undersized running backs, instead of working on a game plan that features a gunslinger for a quarterback who can put the ball anywhere on the field, obviously in any weather conditions and guys that can catch it
 
HipKat said:
One of my complaints this year is that the bills have mysteriously tried to be this power running team, which is asinine considering they have a terrible offensive line and undersized running backs, instead of working on a game plan that features a gunslinger for a quarterback who can put the ball anywhere on the field, obviously in any weather conditions and guys that can catch it
Click to expand...
Umm, your QB is not that good, dude. That's why they don't do what you're suggesting. Beane ignored your lines and had little money to work with in FA, and with some questionable drafts lately, this is what you're getting now and possibly worse in the future with a QB at 38 million per.
 
sg14 said:
I'm glad you have made predictions,
When the Pats were 2-4, you were the only person on here predicting a good season for the team.
You should have put money on that.
Click to expand...
Ahem!

I've had it all the way. I've been mocked elsewhere for my predictions and understand of the schedule of BB's rebuild, but here we are. When Kraft claimed BB's recent drafts have been bad, all it did was pump a false narrative even more.
 
TyLawsPick6 said:
Umm, your QB is not that good, dude. That's why they don't do what you're suggesting. Beane ignored your lines and had little money to work with in FA, and with some questionable drafts lately, this is what you're getting now and possibly worse in the future with a QB at 38 million per.
Click to expand...
Would you like to put him up against Mac Jones?
MVP runner up last year, shattering records. Do you know what's not that good, dude? Your takes, seriously....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top