Looking at the Patriots - 2021

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king of kings said:
My patience has run out with them. Brady era fans are going on ignore. It was never about the team just the player. Their posts confirm it.
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Correct. They aren't Pats fans, they were never Pats fans and they'll never be Pats fans. They're Brady fans and there's nothing wrong with admitting it. It's OK, just don't keep lying.
 
Mazz22 said:
This isn't about Brady winning the Super Bowl in year one with a new team. That is nothing more than simplistic reason to take the focus off the fact that in a three year span, Bill Belichick made one of the most questionable decisions in Super Bowl history which in hindsight probably cost the team the only 3-peat ever, caused the greatest tight end ever to retire rather than play for him, and failed to keep the greatest quarterback of all-time satisfied, choosing instead to double down and triple down on The Patriot Way and "next man up."

And when fans ask for accountability, or at the very least, recognition that Bill has screwed up royally, they're just marginalized and their "true Patriots fandom" is called into question.

I don't really give a crap if people think I'm a real fan or not. I've been a Belichick fan boy almost as much as a Brady fan boy for many years, but I also recognize that a once great philosophy has become a liability.
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Speak for yourself. What fans? As far as I know the only posters that continuously shit on BB and overlook what he's done is you and rivshark. That wouldn't qualify for your "the fans" argument. Those "fans" are well in the minority ie two posters compared to 100 other posters in this board. You either fail to see it or you live in an alternate reality, because what you spew is luckily very much the minority.
 
SkiptoMyLou said:
Speak for yourself. What fans? As far as I know the only posters that continuously shit on BB and overlook what he's done is you and rivshark. That wouldn't qualify for your "the fans" argument. Those "fans" are well in the minority ie two posters compared to 100 other posters in this board. You either fail to see it or you live in an alternate reality, because what you spew is luckily very much the minority.
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It exists outside of PP. This forum is Bill worshippers central and has very few regular posters compared to what it was years ago.
 
Mazz22 said:
Go to PatsFans - they have a Tom Brady forum full of posters who don't believe Bill walks on water.
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I've been to Patsfans. There are a lot of casuals there, but it's definitely not whatever it is you paint. Hell even in facebook groups which has the worst of the worst, I still haven't come across anyone as negative about BB compared to you and Rivshark.

I swear if you had to factually back up half of what you say, you would be forced to retract at least 80% of it. And I'm being generous
 
SkiptoMyLou said:
I've been to Patsfans. There are a lot of casuals there, but it's definitely not whatever it is you paint. Hell even in facebook groups which has the worst of the worst, I still haven't come across anyone as negative about BB other than you and Rivshark.

I swear if you had to factually back up half of what you say, you would be forced to retract at least 80% of it. And I'm being generous
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LOL. A lot of what I post comes from PatsFans. I am not on FB.

I am not nearly as negative on Bill on some other fans. Many were done with him after the Butler benching.
 
Mazz22 said:
LOL. A lot of what I post comes from PatsFans. I am not on FB.

I am not nearly as negative on Bill on some other fans. Many were done with him after the Butler benching.
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You mean after the Pats won the Super Bowl in dominating fashion the year after? Yeah, those are what I call casuals. Although I suspect it might be a figment of your imagination since you can't back it up.
 
johnlocke said:
I watched the 18 chamionshp game against the Chiefs last night.


What struck me was Badys command of the offense but coupled with that was the complete precision of the whole team.

Brady gets credit for building himself into who he became but Bill is the damn architect.
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I remember after the first Rams superbowl, the talk about how BB saw that the entire Rams offense was driven via Marshall Faulk especially his passing routes. Simply disrupting Faulk screwed up the entire Rams ofense.

Didn't work perfectly, of course. WMG got called for being too aggressive on the left side just as Tebuckey Jones picked up a Kurt Warner fumble and ran it back about 95 yards for a TD that was called back for the WMG hold. But BB's defensive game plan effectively neutralized the Greatest Show on Turf.
 
spacecrime said:
I remember after the first Rams superbowl, the talk about how BB saw that the entire Rams offense was driven via Marshall Faulk especially his passing routes. Simply disrupting Faulk screwed up the entire Rams ofense.

Didn't work perfectly, of course. WMG got called for being too aggressive on the left side just as Tebuckey Jones picked up a Kurt Warner fumble and ran it back about 95 yards for a TD that was called back for the WMG hold. But BB's defensive game plan effectively neutralized the Greatest Show on Turf.
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Yes, indeed. Hoodie learned from their first meeting and rearranged the gameplplan. GOAT.
 
spacecrime said:
I remember after the first Rams superbowl, the talk about how BB saw that the entire Rams offense was driven via Marshall Faulk especially his passing routes. Simply disrupting Faulk screwed up the entire Rams ofense.

Didn't work perfectly, of course. WMG got called for being too aggressive on the left side just as Tebuckey Jones picked up a Kurt Warner fumble and ran it back about 95 yards for a TD that was called back for the WMG hold. But BB's defensive game plan effectively neutralized the Greatest Show on Turf.
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Both game plans against the Rams in the Super Bowl should be enshrined. BB completely defensively dominated them in each game.
 
SkiptoMyLou said:
Both game plans against the Rams in the Super Bowl should be enshrined. BB completely defensively dominated them in each game.
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Let's not forget the in game adjustment against Seattle. Benching Arrington & inserting Bulter. Mathews was having a career game. We all know how that game ended :coffee:
 
I live in VA. My dad saw his boat in Yorktown VA a few years ago. I guess he was cruising down the Bay and stopping in. It’s a nice area with some little restaurants right on the waterfront. It was middle of summertime. Probably July or something.
I’m looking forward to the day he moves on from New England. If y’all think that makes me less of a fan then so be it.
The excuses run out this year. It’s time see if he can be better than .500 without the greatest QB of all time.
 
Mazz22 said:
Go to PatsFans - they have a Tom Brady forum full of posters who don't believe Bill walks on water.
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First, BB doesn't walk on water. But he is one of the best NFL coaches ever. Bitch about his missed picks all you want, but no one other than Ozzie Newsome picked as good. Polian was good as well and he also pcked late every year. Where BB excelled is teaching and developing players, especially UDFA, unheralded FAs, and later round draft picks. After 20 years of picking in the 28-32 range, he build some tremendous teams and dominating defenses.

Second, I've been to Patsfans and still go there occasionally, and I call bullshit on the place being full of anti-BB posters. Just as you confuse disapproval with hate, you apparently don't kow the difference between being angry at something and giving up on someone. For diehard Pats fans like me, the team is almost like an extended family, not quite but almost. You don't like everything everyone does and when one family member doesn't do what you think they should you can get REALLY angry, but they are still family.

Look at it this way, if your kids did something you strongly disapprove of, do you hate them? Do you disown them or just complain for a while but realize they are basically
good kids at heart?

It still boils down to Pats fans appreciate what Brady did and believe that he and Brady performed magic together. You have to diss BB in order to make Brady look like it was all him, all by himself, and he did it in spite of BB.

The question is, why do you need to do this?
 
rivshark86 said:
I live in VA. My dad saw his boat in Yorktown VA a few years ago. I guess he was cruising down the Bay and stopping in. It’s a nice area with some little restaurants right on the waterfront. It was middle of summertime. Probably July or something.
I’m looking forward to the day he moves on from New England. If y’all think that makes me less of a fan then so be it.
The excuses run out this year. It’s time see if he can be better than .500 without the greatest QB of all time.
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1. 2008 11-5 with Matt Cassel, who is not one of the greates QBs of all time.

2. The Browns sucked. In 1990 they went 3-13. In 1991 BB took over and in spite of one of the worst owners in football at the time, built them up and in 1994 went 11-5 and into the playoffs when they eliminated Bill Parcells' Patriots 20-13 with Vinny Testaverde who also is not one of the greates QBs of all time.
 
spacecrime said:
First, BB doesn't walk on water. But he is one of the best NFL coaches ever. Bitch about his missed picks all you want, but no one other than Ozzie Newsome picked as good. Polian was good as well and he also pcked late every year. Where BB excelled is teaching and developing players, especially UDFA, unheralded FAs, and later round draft picks. After 20 years of picking in the 28-32 range, he build some tremendous teams and dominating defenses.

Second, I've been to Patsfans and still go there occasionally, and I call bullshit on the place being full of anti-BB posters. Just as you confuse disapproval with hate, you apparently don't kow the difference between being angry at something and giving up on someone. For diehard Pats fans like me, the team is almost like an extended family, not quite but almost. You don't like everything everyone does and when one family member doesn't do what you think they should you can get REALLY angry, but they are still family.

Look at it this way, if your kids did something you strongly disapprove of, do you hate them? Do you disown them or just complain for a while but realize they are basically
good kids at heart?

It still boils down to Pats fans appreciate what Brady did and believe that he and Brady performed magic together. You have to diss BB in order to make Brady look like it was all him, all by himself, and he did it in spite of BB.

The question is, why do you need to do this?
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I didn't say Patsfans was FULL of anti-BB posters but it has way more than this forum. This is definitely a board of Bill worshippers which is fine. Every board has its landscape but it is important to note that other viewpoints exists especially on forum that has way more posters than PP. They are more of a fair sampling of the fanbase than PP.

I don't consider the Patriots to be my extended family. LOL. Perhaps that is where we diverge the greatest. They are my favorite Boston sports team but they rank about on par with my love for my hamster. Ha,ha. It's just football. One of many passions in my life but by no means dominate and certainly nowhere near my children in terms of importance.

My criticisms of Bill is not to make Brady look good. Bill has had many misfires which you pretty much admitted in your previous post. His shortcomings stand on their own apart from Brady as he has 8+ seasons as a HC without Brady in which he is sub .500 with one playoff win. I have never said that it was ALL Brady, ever. I just give him the lions share of the credit for the success as he is the GOAT QB, won in year one without Bill and the "Patriot Way" in a new conference in a Covid season while Bill floundered which is typical of his coaching when he does not have the GOAT as his QB.
 
spacecrime said:
1. 2008 11-5 with Matt Cassel, who is not one of the greates QBs of all time.

2. The Browns sucked. In 1990 they went 3-13. In 1991 BB took over and in spite of one of the worst owners in football at the time, built them up and in 1994 went 11-5 and into the playoffs when they eliminated Bill Parcells' Patriots 20-13 with Vinny Testaverde who also is not one of the greates QBs of all time.
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Hey I’d love to see Mac explode and this team to go 11 and 5 (or whatever it will be with the new extra game.) like that 08 team did. It would be incredible. For this group of players however I think a record of around .500 would be a good year. It’s going to take more than one good draft to turn things around.
I think in the NFL coaching is somewhat overrated. It’s the highest level in the country. For the most part the top half of coaches in the league, maybe even top two thirds, are all good. Very good. What separates them is identifying, acquiring, and keeping elite talent. For the past 12 years BB has failed at this, and in my humble opinion it was covered up by the play of Tom Brady.
A quick search revealed that without Brady BB has 25 wins and 28 losses. I’m not the only one keeping an eye on this.
 
rivshark86 said:
I think in the NFL coaching is somewhat overrated. It’s the highest level in the country. For the most part the top half of coaches in the league, maybe even top two thirds, are all good. Very good. What separates them is identifying, acquiring, and keeping elite talent. For the past 12 years BB has failed at this, and in my humble opinion it was covered up by the play of Tom Brady.
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I would go a step further with this point - what separates the great coaches from the very good coaches are the ones with the elite QBs.
Right now the top coaches of the past 5 years are Bill, Reid, Carroll, Payton, Tomlin. What do they all have in common? HoF QBs. It really is that simple. Heck, you can even put LaFleur in that grouping as he has gone to back-to-back conf. champ games but of course his QB is Rodgers.

This is why ALL of us are hoping Jones has the goods to be a franchise QB. If he's not, we will never be more than a middler team.
 
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