Looking at the Patriots - 2021

[spacecrime]

Hey I’d love to see Mac explode and this team to go 11 and 5 (or whatever it will be with the new extra game.) like that 08 team did. It would be incredible. For this group of players however I think a record of around .500 would be a good year. It’s going to take more than one good draft to turn things around.
I think in the NFL coaching is somewhat overrated. It’s the highest level in the country. For the most part the top half of coaches in the league, maybe even top two thirds, are all good. Very good. What separates them is identifying, acquiring, and keeping elite talent. For the past 12 years BB has failed at this, and in my humble opinion it was covered up by the play of Tom Brady.
A quick search revealed that without Brady BB has 25 wins and 28 losses. I’m not the only one keeping an eye on this.

26-26. Don't forget the first four games of 2016

If you include Cleveland, it's 64-68

 

[Mazz22]

26-26. Don't forget the first four games of 2016

If you include Cleveland, it's 64-68

With the Pats his record is 26-28.

2000 - 5-11 (Bledsoe)
2001 - 0-2 (Bledsoe)
2008 - 11-5 (Cassell)
2016 - 3-1 (Jimmy and Brissett)
2020 - 7-9 (Newton and Hoyer)

 

[spacecrime]

I would go a step further with this point - what separates the great coaches from the very good coaches are the ones with the elite QBs.
Right now the top coaches of the past 5 years are Bill, Reid, Carroll, Payton, Tomlin. What do they all have in common? HoF QBs. It really is that simple. Heck, you can even put LaFleur in that grouping as he has gone to back-to-back conf. champ games but of course his QB is Rodgers.

This is why ALL of us are hoping Jones has the goods to be a franchise QB. If he's not, we will never be more than a middler team.

This is how you roll, starting with the result that it is all Brady, then matching data analysis to fit. there are at least four ways to look at this:

1. Great coaches are that way because they had great QBs

2. Great QBs are that way because they had great coaches.

3. A great defense makes QBs appear great.

4. When you get a great coach and a great QB on the same team along with a great defense, it's synergistic.

One thing your five top coaches all had in common was they built dominant defenses. In fact, that is what they are known for. This is true even going back before the last five year. Legion of Boom, Steel Curtain, Orange Crush, Purple People Eaters.

Of all this conditions, a great defensive coach is the most important IMO, looking at some of the mediocre QBs who won superbowls with guys like Dilfer, Brad Johnson, McMahon, Griese, Hostetler, Flaco, Eli Manning etc etc but had a great defense behind them.

But this is a total waste of time. I've already seen your reply:

Tom Brady/Tampa Off-season thread

Hey man just remember that ‘spoiled brat’ strongly contributed to a super bowl win less than 2.5 years ago, and helped give the franchise 6 overall, most in NFL history. Regardless of how infantile the behavior the guy helped make the Patriots what they are. Now you see articles like this one...

www.patriotsplanet.net

But let's be real here. We saw what happened last year. There is no more proof needed. It was always Brady. Bill is not even an average coach without him.

 

[foobahl]

I didn't say Patsfans was FULL of anti-BB posters but it has way more than this forum. This is definitely a board of Bill worshippers which is fine. Every board has its landscape but it is important to note that other viewpoints exists especially on forum that has way more posters than PP. They are more of a fair sampling of the fanbase than PP.

I don't consider the Patriots to be my extended family. LOL. Perhaps that is where we diverge the greatest. They are my favorite Boston sports team but they rank about on par with my love for my hamster. Ha,ha. It's just football. One of many passions in my life but by no means dominate and certainly nowhere near my children in terms of importance.

My criticisms of Bill is not to make Brady look good. Bill has had many misfires which you pretty much admitted in your previous post. His shortcomings stand on their own apart from Brady as he has 8+ seasons as a HC without Brady in which he is sub .500 with one playoff win. I have never said that it was ALL Brady, ever. I just give him the lions share of the credit for the success as he is the GOAT QB, won in year one without Bill and the "Patriot Way" in a new conference in a Covid season while Bill floundered which is typical of his coaching when he does not have the GOAT as his QB.

I might be able to get on board with you, if you were to take every mistake that TFB made and be critical of them. Every time he played through injury due to ego instead of doing what's best for the team, every interception, every bad read or choosing to change into the wrong play at the line. But no, TFB can do no wrong, no matter the subject. On the field, off the field over the internet, nothing. You can't even keep him off the rest of the football board even though you have a thread with 1k plus posts (that I have never posted in). You must not be able to twist the knife into enough posters on the Tompa thread so you spam the rest. So what would you say is the percentage of patsfan posters who are anti-BB? Would you say more than here, I mean it is a larger site, I would expect more actual numbers.

 

[foobahl]

Hey I’d love to see Mac explode and this team to go 11 and 5 (or whatever it will be with the new extra game.) like that 08 team did. It would be incredible. For this group of players however I think a record of around .500 would be a good year. It’s going to take more than one good draft to turn things around.
I think in the NFL coaching is somewhat overrated. It’s the highest level in the country. For the most part the top half of coaches in the league, maybe even top two thirds, are all good. Very good. What separates them is identifying, acquiring, and keeping elite talent. For the past 12 years BB has failed at this, and in my humble opinion it was covered up by the play of Tom Brady.
A quick search revealed that without Brady BB has 25 wins and 28 losses. I’m not the only one keeping an eye on this.

This is really a hilarious take. BB took over a bottom feeding Browns team and turned it around until the announcement of the move. Then he took over a 500 team began a rebuild, had a losing season then 19 years of success (yes TFB had a lot to do with it, nobody has said different). He loses TFB and has a losing season while beginning a new rebuild. Now he is supposedly a below average coach without TFB. Not even including the DC to 2 Giants SBs.

 

[AlexGouero]

Hey I’d love to see Mac explode and this team to go 11 and 5 (or whatever it will be with the new extra game.) like that 08 team did. It would be incredible. For this group of players however I think a record of around .500 would be a good year. It’s going to take more than one good draft to turn things around.
I think in the NFL coaching is somewhat overrated. It’s the highest level in the country. For the most part the top half of coaches in the league, maybe even top two thirds, are all good. Very good. What separates them is identifying, acquiring, and keeping elite talent. For the past 12 years BB has failed at this, and in my humble opinion it was covered up by the play of Tom Brady.
A quick search revealed that without Brady BB has 25 wins and 28 losses. I’m not the only one keeping an eye on this.

adding Hightower, Judon, Hunter, Smith, Nelson, Kendrik, Mills, Godchuax, Anderson, Van Noy Brown was more than just one draft (which was a banger this year). We are turned it around and we go as far as Mac or Cam can take us because this team is deep and talented. (my money is on Mac)

 

[rivshark86]

As much as I don’t believe in Cam, it’s very important that Mac has some time to develop. He’s not ready for prime time, and I definitely don’t want to see him having a loss to Brady permanently hanging over his head. Let Cam take that that. He’s already done his thing in the league. It won’t be the burden on him it will would be for Mac.

 

[Phil Elliott]

As much as I don’t believe in Cam, it’s very important that Mac has some time to develop. He’s not ready for prime time, and I definitely don’t want to see him having a loss to Brady permanently hanging over his head. Let Cam take that that. He’s already done his thing in the league. It won’t be the burden on him it will would be for Mac.

Stop it. Just stop it. You're rooting for NE to go 0-17 so you can scream for BB.to be fired. Stop being so fucking phony!

 

[king of kings]

Stop it. Just stop it. You're rooting for NE to go 0-17 so you can scream for BB.to be fired. Stop being so fucking phony!

They want BB to fail. So it would prove their point. Thats why they looked for every opportunity to trash BB .We do acknowledge his accomplishments & failures. They only post about his failures .
He needed a big Off-season to make up for last season. A Few years of disappointing draft classes. I think he nailed it overhauling the front seven Getting the 2 best TEs in FA.

 

[Mazz22]

So what would you say is the percentage of patsfan posters who are anti-BB? Would you say more than here, I mean it is a larger site, I would expect more actual numbers.

Probably 15-20 percent are anti-BB. But there is a much larger percentage that are pro Brady than here. The anti-Brady posters here far outweigh PatsFans by a lot in terms of percentage vs members.

 

[PatsFan09]

Probably 15-20 percent are anti-BB. But there is a much larger percentage that are pro Brady than here. The anti-Brady posters here far outweigh PatsFans by a lot in terms of percentage vs members.

There’s literally no one here who is anti-Brady. JHC.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Patriots-Lifer]

Speak for yourself. What fans? As far as I know the only posters that continuously shit on BB and overlook what he's done is you and rivshark. That wouldn't qualify for your "the fans" argument. Those "fans" are well in the minority ie two posters compared to 100 other posters in this board. You either fail to see it or you live in an alternate reality, because what you spew is luckily very much the minority.

I could not agree with you any more.

 

[Patriots-Lifer]

Probably 15-20 percent are anti-BB. But there is a much larger percentage that are pro Brady than here. The anti-Brady posters here far outweigh PatsFans by a lot in terms of percentage vs members.

I have to say that it would appear that you still don't have any idea what you are talking about.

 

[chevss454]

Probably 15-20 percent are anti-BB. But there is a much larger percentage that are pro Brady than here. The anti-Brady posters here far outweigh PatsFans by a lot in terms of percentage vs members.

There’s literally no one here who is anti-Brady. JHC.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

PF09 is exactly right. No one here is anti-Brady. All of us, me included, are deeply appreciative for what he did as our QB. We recognize he's the GOAT and that's not debatable.
What we're against, or what I'm against anyway, is others continuously pushing his greatness down our throats and at the same time blaming BB for his departure.

I'm not anti-Brady at all. I accept that Brady experienced a mid-life crisis and decided to ditch the Patriots' way in favor of fun. All the behavioral signs have been there for at least 3 years - weight loss, increased anger or irritability and his withdrawal from the Patriots in search of something new, different and exciting. Brady is goal oriented so it's not surprising that he is furiously trying to achieve bigger goals as his career is ending. Don't believe me? Want to argue the point? I suggest you Google 'mid-life crisis' and you'll see TB12's changes in life and lifestyle defined perfectly. I'll make it easy for you, here's the link --> what is a middle age crisis - Google Search

No, I'm not anti-Brady. I'm anti-Mazz22 for not accepting that TB12 changed as a person & wanted to leave, for not recognizing that TFB became TB12, that he negotiated his way out of town and for constantly trolling the greatness we're missing out on as if he weren't dead set on leaving to scratch an itch which is exactly what he did.

I'm a Patriots fan and have been a Pats fan longer than Brady's been alive. He's no longer here and while I wish him well, my fandom is here and not in Tampa Bay. I'm fully invested in the Patriots as a fan, in BB as the GOAT HC and the Kraft's as owners. Yeah, I'm a Patriots fan.

 

[Phil Elliott]

PF09 is exactly right. No one here is anti-Brady. All of us, me included, are deeply appreciative for what he did as our QB. We recognize he's the GOAT and that's not debatable.
What we're against, or what I'm against anyway, is others continuously pushing his greatness down our throats and at the same time blaming BB for his departure.

I'm not anti-Brady at all. I accept that Brady experienced a mid-life crisis and decided to ditch the Patriots' way in favor of fun. All the behavioral signs have been there for at least 3 years - weight loss, increased anger or irritability and his withdrawal from the Patriots in search of something new, different and exciting. Brady is goal oriented so it's not surprising that he is furiously trying to achieve bigger goals as his career is ending. Don't believe me? Want to argue the point? I suggest you Google 'mid-life crisis' and you'll see TB12's changes in life and lifestyle defined perfectly. I'll make it easy for you, here's the link --> what is a middle age crisis - Google Search

No, I'm not anti-Brady. I'm anti-Mazz22 for not accepting that TB12 changed as a person & wanted to leave, for not recognizing that TFB became TB12, that he negotiated his way out of town and for constantly trolling the greatness we're missing out on as if he weren't dead set on leaving to scratch an itch which is exactly what he did.

I'm a Patriots fan and have been a Pats fan longer than Brady's been alive. He's no longer here and while I wish him well, my fandom is here and not in Tampa Bay. I'm fully invested in the Patriots as a fan, in BB as the GOAT HC and the Kraft's as owners. Yeah, I'm a Patriots fan.

Perfectly-stated and mirrors my feelings exactly.

 

[John Locke]

That some have even a level of BB hate boggles my mind. He created the greatest football organization of all time and y'all wanna bitch about him.

Get the hell outta here.

 

[Hawg73]

PF09 is exactly right. No one here is anti-Brady. All of us, me included, are deeply appreciative for what he did as our QB. We recognize he's the GOAT and that's not debatable.
What we're against, or what I'm against anyway, is others continuously pushing his greatness down our throats and at the same time blaming BB for his departure.

I'm not anti-Brady at all. I accept that Brady experienced a mid-life crisis and decided to ditch the Patriots' way in favor of fun. All the behavioral signs have been there for at least 3 years - weight loss, increased anger or irritability and his withdrawal from the Patriots in search of something new, different and exciting. Brady is goal oriented so it's not surprising that he is furiously trying to achieve bigger goals as his career is ending. Don't believe me? Want to argue the point? I suggest you Google 'mid-life crisis' and you'll see TB12's changes in life and lifestyle defined perfectly. I'll make it easy for you, here's the link --> what is a middle age crisis - Google Search

No, I'm not anti-Brady. I'm anti-Mazz22 for not accepting that TB12 changed as a person & wanted to leave, for not recognizing that TFB became TB12, that he negotiated his way out of town and for constantly trolling the greatness we're missing out on as if he weren't dead set on leaving to scratch an itch which is exactly what he did.

I'm a Patriots fan and have been a Pats fan longer than Brady's been alive. He's no longer here and while I wish him well, my fandom is here and not in Tampa Bay. I'm fully invested in the Patriots as a fan, in BB as the GOAT HC and the Kraft's as owners. Yeah, I'm a Patriots fan.

Well stated. Of course, we were all lucky to have Brady and lived and died with every win and loss for a significant chunk of our lives.

I started down the "anti-Brady" path when I became aware that there were a lot of folks who simply refuse to accept he was a human
being who, like the rest of us mortals, sometimes screws up or acts like a whiny little bitch. I started to notice a pattern to the excuse making whereby he was never at fault for
anything and it started to annoy me over time. These people clearly had issues.

I got tired of the fact that every criticism, no matter how obvious or legitimate, was met with a wall of resistance and rationalization and I responded by
turning the dial up higher. That was directed at his glassy-eyed sycophants more than at Tom and it was kind of fun to watch them go shithouse every
time I insulted him, so I kept doing it.

I don't hate Tom Brady, but consider him totally irrelevant to our particular situation here in the present.

I'm tired of him as a "personality" and sick of reading all the same old shit about how I'm supposed to feel terrible that he is in Tampa. I don't.

He's a grown-ass man who isn't going to last much longer and made a decision that he earned the right to make. I'm perfectly content
to watch Bill build a new powerhouse here and expect we will see that take place in the weeks and months ahead and that's all I need.

I'm also copyrighting the phrase "Once you go Mac......"

All rights reserved.

 

[chevss454]

On the betting front I'm seeing a lot of support for the Patriots to go over 9.5 wins and to make the playoffs.
Here's one example. Adam Kramer and Marcus Mosher, MGM sports betting experts, pick the Pats to win 11-12 games and they say the Pats are a solid bet to make the playoffs.

‎Take The Points: The Best Money in the AFC East is the Pats to Make the Playoff on Apple Podcasts

‎Show Take The Points, Ep The Best Money in the AFC East is the Pats to Make the Playoff - Jul 8, 2021

podcasts.apple.com

 

[chevss454]

Mike Reiss talks about the Harry situation, the Gilmore holdout, our QBs coming to camp a week early and John Hannah talking about Ernie Adams and his toughest opponents.

Patriots' precedent could be key factor in a Stephon Gilmore resolution

Perhaps adding easily-earned incentives to the cornerback's contract would fall in line with New England's approach of finding common ground?

www.espn.com

 

[Phil Elliott]

Well stated. Of course, we were all lucky to have Brady and lived and died with every win and loss for a significant chunk of our lives.

I started down the "anti-Brady" path when I became aware that there were a lot of folks who simply refuse to accept he was a human
being who, like the rest of us mortals, sometimes screws up or acts like a whiny little bitch. I started to notice a pattern to the excuse making whereby he was never at fault for
anything and it started to annoy me over time. These people clearly had issues.

I got tired of the fact that every criticism, no matter how obvious or legitimate, was met with a wall of resistance and rationalization and I responded by
turning the dial up higher. That was directed at his glassy-eyed sycophants more than at Tom and it was kind of fun to watch them go shithouse every
time I insulted him, so I kept doing it.

I don't hate Tom Brady, but consider him totally irrelevant to our particular situation here in the present.

I'm tired of him as a "personality" and sick of reading all the same old shit about how I'm supposed to feel terrible that he is in Tampa. I don't.

He's a grown-ass man who isn't going to last much longer and made a decision that he earned the right to make. I'm perfectly content
to watch Bill build a new powerhouse here and expect we will see that take place in the weeks and months ahead and that's all I need.

I'm also copyrighting the phrase "Once you go Mac......"

All rights reserved.

Another eloquent analysis.