Michel traded to the Rams!

[BradyGirl]

From what I'm hearing, there is at least some level of possibility Jimmy G loses the starting role to Trey Lance this season. If that happens, by the end of the year, they'll have spent $107 million of cap space for 33 games as a starter and 2 playoff wins (no Super Bowls). Meanwhile we got a 2nd rounder which was turned into 7+ players on rookie contracts.

Updating the Jimmy Garoppolo trade between the Patriots and the 49ers

The Patriots used assets acquired in the deal to select almost half of their 2019 draft class.

www.patspulpit.com

I'm not saying that we 'fleeced' the 49ers on that one, but I am saying the way it panned out, I'd take our side of the trade over theirs if the option was on the table to do it again, in a heartbeat. If the Sony Michel trade works out nearly as well I'll be thrilled.

Yes, I agree, but at the time, it was a head-scratcher.

 

[Mazz22]

From what I'm hearing, there is at least some level of possibility Jimmy G loses the starting role to Trey Lance this season. If that happens, by the end of the year, they'll have spent $107 million of cap space for 33 games as a starter and 2 playoff wins (no Super Bowls). Meanwhile we got a 2nd rounder which was turned into 7+ players on rookie contracts.

Updating the Jimmy Garoppolo trade between the Patriots and the 49ers

The Patriots used assets acquired in the deal to select almost half of their 2019 draft class.

www.patspulpit.com

I'm not saying that we 'fleeced' the 49ers on that one, but I am saying the way it panned out, I'd take our side of the trade over theirs if the option was on the table to do it again, in a heartbeat. If the Sony Michel trade works out nearly as well I'll be thrilled.

I doubt the Niners have any regrets about that trade. Jimmy won a lot of games for them and took them to a Super Bowl. That is pretty good return for a #2. They would do that trade again in a heart beat. I would hope and pray Bill wouldn't.

 

[John Locke]

From what I'm hearing, there is at least some level of possibility Jimmy G loses the starting role to Trey Lance this season. If that happens, by the end of the year, they'll have spent $107 million of cap space for 33 games as a starter and 2 playoff wins (no Super Bowls). Meanwhile we got a 2nd rounder which was turned into 7+ players on rookie contracts.

Updating the Jimmy Garoppolo trade between the Patriots and the 49ers

The Patriots used assets acquired in the deal to select almost half of their 2019 draft class.

www.patspulpit.com

I'm not saying that we 'fleeced' the 49ers on that one, but I am saying the way it panned out, I'd take our side of the trade over theirs if the option was on the table to do it again, in a heartbeat. If the Sony Michel trade works out nearly as well I'll be thrilled.

Yes, I have made that case here. Bill turned a head scratcher, to us, trade of Jimmy G into a major positive for this team as he has done so time and time again.

Trades aren't made in a vacuum and Bill is the best I can think of at maximizing value in his moves.

I expect, based on history that this trade will be a net positive for the Pats as it is just what Bill does.

 

[Giant Octopodes]

I doubt the Niners have any regrets about that trade. Jimmy won a lot of games for them and took them to a Super Bowl. That is pretty good return for a #2. They would do that trade again in a heart beat. I would hope and pray Bill wouldn't.

Had he won that Super Bowl, I'd somewhat agree with you. Had he won, they also likely wouldn't be looking to move on from him during a year where he's still getting paid $26 million. However they feel he's almost certainly worse than Trey Lance, and I feel Trey Lance is almost certainly worse than Mac Jones, so we gave up an asset we likely couldn't and wouldn't use, got 7 players in return, and ended up with a QB which (if I'm remembering the transitive property properly) is almost certainly better than him. I'd love for Bill to make those kinds of trades, all day, every day.

 

[Mazz22]

Had he won that Super Bowl, I'd somewhat agree with you. Had he won, they also likely wouldn't be looking to move on from him during a year where he's still getting paid $26 million. However they feel he's almost certainly worse than Trey Lance, and I feel Trey Lance is almost certainly worse than Mac Jones, so we gave up an asset we likely couldn't and wouldn't use, got 7 players in return, and ended up with a QB which (if I'm remembering the transitive property properly) is almost certainly better than him. I'd love for Bill to make those kinds of trades, all day, every day.

You have a ton of hypotheticals in there. How do you know Lance will be better than Jimmy and that Mac will be better than Lance? Their careers have not even begun to make those type of statements.

They are not moving on from Jimmy because they didn't win the SB. They are moving on because he is injury prone which no one can predict. And us drafting Mac has nothing to do with Jimmy. We got Mac at #15 because we went 7-9 last year and had the 15th overall pick.

You may like that trade because Bill routinely blows 2nd round picks on horrible DBs anyways, but it was not a good trade for us.

 

[Giant Octopodes]

You have a ton of hypotheticals in there. How do you know Lance will be better than Jimmy and that Mac will be better than Lance? Their careers have not even begun to make those type of statements.

They are not moving on from Jimmy because they didn't win the SB. They are moving on because he is injury prone which no one can predict. And us drafting Mac has nothing to do with Jimmy. We got Mac at #15 because we went 7-9 last year and had the 15th overall pick.

You may like that trade because Bill routinely blows 2nd round picks on horrible DBs anyways, but it was not a good trade for us.

If he's injury prone, and the team which received him is moving on from him, how is it not a good trade for us? If Jimmy G is a decent QB (albeit injury prone) do you think it's likely, were he our starting QB last year, that we would go 7-9 and get the 15th overall pick, and be in a position to be able to take Mac Jones? Also, just throwing this out there, should we have gotten rid of Brady in 2017, and kept Jimmy G, would that be a better scenario for us than trading away Jimmy G? Since we could not afford to pay them both starting QB money, and our options were as follows:

• Get rid of Brady
• Get rid of Jimmy G
• Let Jimmy's contract expire and let him walk, getting nothing from him in return

Belichick chose option 2, which option was the superior one he should have chosen, if that was a bad choice?

 

[Mazz22]

If he's injury prone, and the team which received him is moving on from him, how is it not a good trade for us? If Jimmy G is a decent QB (albeit injury prone) do you think it's likely, were he our starting QB last year, that we would go 7-9 and get the 15th overall pick, and be in a position to be able to take Mac Jones? Also, just throwing this out there, should we have gotten rid of Brady in 2017, and kept Jimmy G, would that be a better scenario for us than trading away Jimmy G? Since we could not afford to pay them both starting QB money, and our options were as follows:

• Get rid of Brady
• Get rid of Jimmy G
• Let Jimmy's contract expire and let him walk, getting nothing from him in return

Belichick chose option 2, which option was the superior one he should have chosen, if that was a bad choice?

My feeling is Jimmy was worth more than a #2 when we traded him. I have no issue with Bill trading him. That was the right choice then and now. My issue was the compensation.

 

[Hawg73]

You may like that trade because Bill routinely blows 2nd round picks on horrible DBs anyways, but it was not a good trade for us.

I enjoy how you routinely state your opinion as if it were a proven fact. You have literally no idea if it is good, bad or an indifferent trade right now, unless
you believe in the multiverse theory and you can keep switching between them to find one where your initial guess worked out.

That wouldn't really surprise me, but as long as you're in the Patriots Planet universe, you could always add a comma followed by IMO. No H is necessary. It
might reduce your squabbles with the locals by 15% or so.

 

[Mazz22]

I enjoy how you routinely state your opinion as if it were a proven fact. You have literally no idea if it is good, bad or an indifferent trade right now, unless
you believe in the multiverse theory and you can keep switching between them to find one where your initial guess worked out.

That wouldn't really surprise me, but as long as you're in the Patriots Planet universe, you could always add a comma followed by IMO. No H is necessary. It
might reduce your squabbles with the locals by 15% or so.

I have putting IMO more. But honestly, this is a football forum and it should be understood everything is an opinion unless it is specifically stated as a fact supported by evidence, quote, link, etc.
I really don't see the IMO all that often by other posters yet their posts are understood as opinion.

 

[John Locke]

I have putting IMO more. But honestly, this is a football forum and it should be understood everything is an opinion unless it is specifically stated as a fact supported by evidence, quote, link, etc.
I really don't see the IMO all that often by other posters yet their posts are understood as opinion.

Simply not true, Mazz. Fact is fact, many times opinions are thrown out but also many times facts are thrown out. You reject, spin and twist facts to suit your agenda just like MSM on this topic.

And on the Jimmy G trade, it has been explained to you over and over again, and you have ignored it all in service of your Bill sucks/Brady made him agenda.

Fact is Bill turned that 2nd into 7 players that helped this team to some degree.

Spin that.

 

[chevss454]

I doubt the Niners have any regrets about that trade. Jimmy won a lot of games for them and took them to a Super Bowl. That is pretty good return for a #2. They would do that trade again in a heart beat. I would hope and pray Bill wouldn't.

The trade was great for them. But then they paid him way too much money. That was their mistake.

 

[Hawg73]

I have putting IMO more. But honestly, this is a football forum and it should be understood everything is an opinion unless it is specifically stated as a fact supported by evidence, quote, link, etc.
I really don't see the IMO all that often by other posters yet their posts are understood as opinion.

Look, I get it, but I also see you constantly involved in personality conflicts here. You know?

Unless you actually ENJOY that action, then you might want to consider differentiating facts from opinion a bit more often than you do.

Of course, feel free to tell me to go fry ice, but you may not be fully aware of how you come off to people. At least that's one explanation, but I could
do with less toxic threads around this place where you are involved and I'm trying to find a way to reduce the number. For all I know maybe you'd like
the same thing.

 

[Mazz22]

Look, I get it, but I also see you constantly involved in personality conflicts here. You know?

Unless you actually ENJOY that action, then you might want to consider differentiating facts from opinion a bit more often than you do.

Of course, feel free to tell me to go fry ice, but you may not be fully aware of how you come off to people. At least that's one explanation, but I could
do with less toxic threads around this place where you are involved and I'm trying to find a way to reduce the number. For all I know maybe you'd like
the same thing.

I appreciate the feedback. I have been trying to work on things. But I will be around less starting next week once school starts up so I am sure that will help the most. Lol

 

[Mazz22]

The trade was great for them. But then they paid him way too much money. That was their mistake.

I am not sure they could have gotten away with less than $25 mil a year for a starting QB. They also front loaded it so they paid the bulk the first 2 years with the ability to get out of it in year 3 with little dead money. That was structured smartly. I think the issue for them is Jimmy was really good when he played. He won them a lot of games and they went to the SB in year 3 but then he got hurt again last year which left them in no man's land.

I don't believe they have any regrets about the trade. It's just so hard to predict injuries.

 

[Phil Elliott]

Seven #1 draft choices??? What time did you start drinking yesterday morning???

 

[chevss454]

I am not sure they could have gotten away with less than $25 mil a year for a starting QB. They also front loaded it so they paid the bulk the first 2 years with the ability to get out of it in year 3 with little dead money. That was structured smartly. I think the issue for them is Jimmy was really good when he played. He won them a lot of games and they went to the SB in year 3 but then he got hurt again last year which left them in no man's land.

I don't believe they have any regrets about the trade. It's just so hard to predict injuries.

Yeah, SF structured the contract to give him elite money with elite guarantees before he earned either.
7 career wins in 4 full years does not earn a 5yr/$137,500,000 with $74,100,000 guaranteed in my book.
That could have been structured a lot better from SF's pov. Compare that contract with Mahomes' contract.
The injuries make it worse but it was a bad contract for SF from the beginning.
I don't consider $85M for playing 24 games (50%) over the first 3 years of his contract any kind of bargain.
SF obviously doesn't either. Enter Trey Lance.

 

[Mazz22]

Yeah, SF structured the contract to give him elite money with elite guarantees before he earned either.
7 career wins in 4 full years does not earn a 5yr/$137,500,000 with $74,100,000 guaranteed in my book.
That could have been structured a lot better from SF's pov. Compare that contract with Mahomes' contract.
The injuries make it worse but it was a bad contract for SF from the beginning.
I don't consider $85M for playing 24 games (50%) over the first 3 years of his contract any kind of bargain.
SF obviously doesn't either. Enter Trey Lance.

Sure. It was the injuries IMO. Jimmy when he was playing and not hurt was worth that contract IMO so I don't think it was a mistake from that POV. But once you factor in the injuries, it just became too much IMO.

I have been following the San Fran TC and it has been as interesting as ours in a lot of ways. Jimmy has played well and he really is not a great practice player so that is good for him. Most believe Lance is a project but he already is making some plays out there. Shanny has not named the starter but I expect it will be Jimmy IMO. I am rooting for him to play well and hopefully get another contract somewhere this off season.

 

[aloyouis]

Yeah, SF structured the contract to give him elite money with elite guarantees before he earned either.
7 career wins in 4 full years does not earn a 5yr/$137,500,000 with $74,100,000 guaranteed in my book.
That could have been structured a lot better from SF's pov. Compare that contract with Mahomes' contract.
The injuries make it worse but it was a bad contract for SF from the beginning.
I don't consider $85M for playing 24 games (50%) over the first 3 years of his contract any kind of bargain.
SF obviously doesn't either. Enter Trey Lance.

100%

They paid him roughly $141,000 per drop back. 141K EACH.

LOL. SF is so smart...