Bethel Johnson Traded!!

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I think that Sullivan suspension and buffet episode was pretty early on, wasn't it?

Reportedly the Saints were unhappy with his conditioning in their minicamp recently, and he couldn't deal with the heat. However, he also reported 20 pounds lighter, I think, so at least he gave it a try, but it may have been a case of too little too late for him in New Orleans.

He had shown enough promise to go high in the draft. If anyone can make something of him, it's Belichick and the Patriots organization (especially with former Georgia teammate Richard Seymour around to slap him a few times). As has been said, it's either a fresh start or his last stop on the way out of football. If it's the former, it's a steal; if it's the latter, it was no harm no foul since he came cheap and Bethel probably would've been cut anyway (or relegated to the bench again as the last WR).

Yeah, it leaves a hole in the return game, but I guess they have a plan for that.

This deal is an example of why the Pats have won three SBs and why teams like the Saints whack it. They traded two first-round picks to move up and get Sullivan, and a few seasons later traded him for a disappointing 2nd-rounder. Nice.
 
Bethel served his purpose well with the Patriots:

He helped the coaching staff show that if you screw up in practice, and if you don't study, and you don't work hard, guess what....you aren't even playing on Sunday.....Even If you are the fastest man in the nfl (or whatever you do)
 
How typically Belichickian! Trade a guy who wouldn't buy into the system here for another guy who's shown some problems, but if Sullivan doesn't work out, it costs very little. Johnathan Sullivan could be another Terrell and never see even t he pre-season, but it'll be interesting to see how things develop. He's been given a second chance. Bethel? Well, I hope he likes the Black Hole of the NFL! Maybe he'll realize how good he had it here. :pat: :patriots: :pat: :patriots:
 
Here's a take on it from the New Orleans Times-Picayune ...


Saints done with Sullivan
2003 first-round pick is traded to Patriots
Tuesday, June 06, 2006

By Mike Triplett
Staff writer

With the amount of housecleaning the Saints have done this offseason, it was just a matter of time before they cut ties with defensive tackle Johnathan Sullivan.

The Saints traded their underachieving 2003 first-round draft pick to the New England Patriots on Monday in exchange for receiver/kick returner Bethel Johnson.

Saints officials declined to comment Monday, as the deal is pending league approval, and Sullivan could not be reached for comment.

Sullivan and Johnson, a second-round pick, have been disappointments since being drafted in 2003. Sullivan, 25, likely will be remembered in New Orleans as one of the Saints' biggest draft busts.

The Saints traded up to acquire Sullivan with the No. 6 overall pick in 2003. They sent the 17th and 18th picks, along with their second-round pick, to Arizona in exchange for the Cardinals' first-, second- and fourth-round picks.

Sullivan, who is listed at 6 feet 3, 315 pounds, left Georgia after his junior season and was disappointing in his first two seasons with the Saints, struggling to keep his weight down and often being criticized for his lack of desire and effort.

Last season, Sullivan finally showed some glimpses of his potential, playing in 15 games and making a career-high 42 tackles.

But Sullivan failed to show enough evidence to the Saints' new coaching staff that he had turned things around.

His attendance in the Saints' offseason workout program was sparse and his conditioning was poor, as evidenced by fatigue problems during last weekend's minicamp.

Sullivan provided some optimism last weekend, saying he weighed 328 pounds -- an improvement over the days when he weighed 350 to 355 pounds. He also said when he wasn't in New Orleans this summer, he was working out at home in Georgia, where he was moving into a new house.

Still, the Saints have demanded change under first-year coach Sean Payton, cutting ties with several veterans and seeking players with high character, desire and work ethic.

Sullivan still will cost more than $5 million against the Saints' salary cap during the next two seasons, stemming from his original signing bonus. But they will be relieved of his scheduled 2006 salary of $689,083.

Johnson, 27, is due $478,000 this year and $546,000 next year in the final two years of his original contract.

The 5-foot-11, 200-pounder is regarded as one of the NFL's fastest players, but he was used sparingly as a receiver in New England, where most of his value came as a kickoff returner.

Johnson caught 30 passes in three years for 450 yards and four touchdowns. He returned 102 kickoffs for a 25.1-yard average and two touchdowns, and he returned six punts for 21 yards.

With the Saints, Johnson will compete with a crowded group of young receivers for the third-, fourth- and fifth-receiver roles. He could also complement or compete with veteran Michael Lewis as the primary return man.

Johnson's character and work ethic were never issues in New England, but health and toughness were question marks. He missed last year's training camp and much of September with foot and thigh injuries.

Johnson had a series of surgeries on his spleen while at Texas A&M, but the condition has not been an issue in the NFL.

Last month, Johnson expressed frustration with his inability to earn more playing time, telling the Boston Globe that he has been "totally disappointed."

"It's hard for me to sit here and watch. I hate it. I hate it with a passion," Johnson told the newspaper. "I'm doing everything I have to do every single year to make it happen. But it's not up to me. I've asked the question for the last three years, really. Catch the ball better -- I stay and catch the ball. Run more routes -- I run more routes. Something's not there."

Johnson and Sullivan now will have an opportunity to turn things around.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Um....

Johnson's character and work ethic were never issues in New England

I may be mistaken but wasn't Bethel inactive for a game or two? And wasn't the reason rumored to be "character and work ethic"?

I think it was during the 04 season. I remember the press asking him questions about why he was inactive and Johnson giving a bunch of idiotic statements about it. But I'm almost positive it was because of locker room or practice issues.

Anyone else remember that?
 
mgoblue101415 said:
I think it was during the 04 season. I remember the press asking him questions about why he was inactive and Johnson giving a bunch of idiotic statements about it. But I'm almost positive it was because of locker room or practice issues.

Anyone else remember that?
Click to expand...

Curran's piece in the Providence Journal today:

http://www.projo.com/patriots/content/projo_20060606_06pats.128ac067.html
But in 2004, Johnson seemed to develop an oversized ego. Teammates found Johnson annoying because he was a bit of a blowhard. It didn't help when the coaching staff piled more responsibility on him and Johnson complained of being overtaxed. Johnson was benched in October of 2004 for a game with the Dolphins for a lack of effort during practice.
 
JD10367 said:
I think that Sullivan suspension and buffet episode was pretty early on, wasn't it?
Click to expand...

From Curran at the Providence Journal:

http://www.projo.com/patriots/content/projo_20060606_06pats.128ac067.html
He was said to be over 350 pounds in 2004. The nadir for him came when he made minor headlines for gorging himself on the media's pregame buffet before a Saints game against Atlanta. That was one of nine games he didn't dress.

----------------------------------------

Curran projects Sullivan as a backup to Wilfork on the team.

Yeah, it leaves a hole in the return game, but I guess they have a plan for that.
Click to expand...

I started a thread on the status of the Pats' return game earlier. In summary, I think it is much eaiser to find a replacement kickoff returner than it is a punt returner.
 
Wandering Athol said:
Curran's piece in the Providence Journal today:

http://www.projo.com/patriots/content/projo_20060606_06pats.128ac067.html
But in 2004, Johnson seemed to develop an oversized ego. Teammates found Johnson annoying because he was a bit of a blowhard. It didn't help when the coaching staff piled more responsibility on him and Johnson complained of being overtaxed. Johnson was benched in October of 2004 for a game with the Dolphins for a lack of effort during practice.
Click to expand...



Yeah, that's what I pretty much remembered.

Course, maybe in regards to the Saints Bethel's problems aren't really problems.

I mean, it's not like he's some :high: or he ever hit a guy over the head with a pillow case full of boots ( ? ) . Maybe whining and compaining are just normal everyday things in New Orleans. :shrug:

Course, with the Saints I guess you'd have a lot of whining and complaining.
 
:thumb: Sullivan did play in college with Seymour so you know Coach Bill and Scott Pioli must haved asked Richard his opinion about getting him!! If they can light a fire under his big arse then we could have a real steal here!! Bethel was a dog and an A-Hole anyway!! 4.3 speed with a 6.0 Brain and instincts. He won't beat out the new Saints rookie WR Mike Hass for a job, so he'll just be a kick returner again where he sucked.... Can't say I will miss him!!
 
Benign Despot said:
I believe the contrat situation is fairly simple.

Pats eat any unamortized bonus left for Bethel, Saints for Sullivan.
Click to expand...

Johnson's cap hit will be $700,000.

The Saints on the other hand, by my simple calculation, eat a whopping [WA edit: $3MM] by trading Sullivan. Ouchy!


EDIT: Profootballtalk.com is reporting that under the new CBA, trades after June 1st are now treated the same as cuts after June 1st from a salary cap perspective. Hence, the Pats would take only a $350,000 hit in 2006 for Johnson, with the rest of the damage taken in 2007. For Sullivan, those numbers are $1.5MM in 2006, and $1.5MM in 2007*.


*when adjusted for the 2 years Sullivan voided in his contract by hitting PT triggers in 2003.
 
Undertaker #59 said:
Here a Sullivan's contract numbers. He is signed through 2009:

2003 849000.00
2004 394583.00
2005 476833.00
2006 689083.00
2007 901333.00
2008 1243583.00
2009 1455829.00
Click to expand...

By hitting playing time triggers his rookie year, Profootballtalk.com is reporting that Sullivan voided the last two years of his contract - 2008 and 2009. Hence, he is only under contract to the Pats for 2 years.
 
Sullivan is apparently only signed through 07.

See 2nd part below, from profootballtalk.com

PATS, SAINTS TAKE ADVANTAGE OF NEW CBA RULE

A league source tells us that Monday's trade between the Saints and Pats takes advantage of a little-known tweak to the CBA that permits the cap hit resulting from trades made after June 1 to be spread over two seasons.

Under the deal, the Saints sent defensive tackle Johnathan Sullivan to the Pats for receiver Bethel Johnson.

Previously, a trade resulted in the immediate acceleration of all unallocated bonus money into the current cap year. The rule was one of the reasons that player movement via trade had diminished over the past decade.

But now the cap consequences for a player traded after June 1 are the same as when a player is cut after June 1.

So the Pats will carry the cap charge for 20 percent of Johnson's original signing bonus in 2006, and 20 percent in 2007. The Saints will account for the cap charge applicable to Sullivan's bonus money in 2006, with all remaining "dead money" from his signing and option bonus counting against the cap in 2007. Under the old rules, both teams would have seen all of the remaining bonus money apply in 2006.

How obscure is this rule? We've scoured the CBA extension term sheet, and we don't see it in there anywhere.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SULLIVAN UNDER CONTRACT ONLY THROUGH 2007

Although defensive tackle Johnathan Sullivan was widely regarded as a bust of a top ten pick during his three years with the Saints, he did enough in New Orleans to trigger a provision in his rookie contract that voids the final two years of the deal.

The Saints traded Sullivan to the Pats on Monday, for receiver Bethel Johnson.

A reader raised with us on Monday the possibility that Sullivan has achieved the threshold for scuttling the 2008 and 2009 seasons, which were reported as voidable when Sullivan signed his initial contract. A league source tells us that, indeed, the triggers were reached. Under the contract, the final two seasons void if Sullivan has 35 percent playing time in 2003 or 45 percent in 2004, 2005, 2006, or 2007. Sullivan had more than 35 percent playing time as a rookie.

The end result is that both Sullivan and the guy for whom he was traded, receiver Bethel Johnson, are under contract through 2007. Sullivan has base salaries of $689,083 and $901,333. Johnson is due to be paid $500,000 and $546,000.
 
So the question about the return game- well, we all saw Hobbs fielding kickoffs with Bethel last season, and I'm sure we could also plug him or another young WR (maybe not Jackson, I'd have to see him do it in camp first) into the PR spot- that is, of course, if Mr. Dependable doesn't want it.

Could wind up as Hobbs/Faulk (or Pass, remember we saw them as the return tandem until Bethel came along) taking kickoffs at least. Just my idea.
 
Cletusaurus said:
So the question about the return game- well, we all saw Hobbs fielding kickoffs with Bethel last season, and I'm sure we could also plug him or another young WR (maybe not Jackson, I'd have to see him do it in camp first) into the PR spot- that is, of course, if Mr. Dependable doesn't want it.

Could wind up as Hobbs/Faulk (or Pass, remember we saw them as the return tandem until Bethel came along) taking kickoffs at least. Just my idea.
Click to expand...

I'm sure they'll find at least one new guy (FA or rookie) who can do it.

And I'm all for Hobbs doing it.. as long as we get another CB, because right now the Pats can't risk Hobbs as a returner since he's high on the depth chart at corner. Now, if Ty does come back, then I can see using Hobbs more for returns.
 
Hey Guys--

Good luck with Sullivan. I thought that I would share with you an assesment that I received about him from a friend in Georgia back when Sullivan was with the Saints. Take it for what it is worth:

If you can find that lightswitch, the results can be amazing at times.

I had the opportunity to watch every down Sullivan played in high school and you really just described his senior season. Weeks of lethargy followed by a burst of brilliance, all seemingly turning on some intrinsic motivation that no one understood but him.

Physically, he can be quite good. He just seemed to drift into periods of "heart trouble", where he just didn't give a damn.
Click to expand...

Or, to put it another way, :banghead:

I hope that you guys can find that lightswitch--because we sure as heck couldn't.
 
The same can be said about Bethel. Lighting quick speed, no smarts, no heart.

EDIT: BTW, welcome to the Planet.
 
Has either player made comments to the press about the trade? I'd be interested to hear what Sullivan said, just to see if at least he says the kinds of things we'd all like to hear. Not that it will translate onto the field, but just to get a glimpse of the guy's attitude.
 
grogsox said:
Has either player made comments to the press about the trade?
Click to expand...
from yesterdays Globe

Patriots put WR in motion
Johnson dealt for Saints DL Sullivan
By Jerome Solomon and Mike Reiss, Globe Staff | June 6, 2006

The airplane was preparing for takeoff yesterday, and for wide receiver Bethel Johnson, it meant a new direction for his career. The Patriots had just traded him to the New Orleans Saints for defensive lineman Johnathan Sullivan.

``I'm excited to get a fresh start and a new opportunity," said Johnson, who was a second-round pick of the Patriots in 2003. ``It's something that both sides recognized as needing to be done, so I'm glad they looked out for my interests and put something together that hopefully will work out for both of us."

The trade has yet to be confirmed by the Patriots and Saints, as it still must be approved by the NFL. That is considered a formality.

Both Johnson and the 25-year-old Sullivan -- a first-round pick in 2003 (sixth overall) -- fell out of favor with their teams. Johnson is signed through 2007, while Sullivan's deal extends through 2009.

The 27-year-old Johnson had just four catches last season and was a healthy scratch in both playoff games. His production, both as a receiver and kickoff returner, declined each of the last two seasons. The Patriots had traded a second- and fourth-round pick to select him 45th overall in 2003, citing his rare speed and game-breaking ability.

Meanwhile, the Saints traded two first-round picks to move up to grab Sullivan in 2003. Although he followed in the footsteps of Richard Seymour and Marcus Stroud at the University of Georgia -- and was touted by Bulldogs line coach Rodney Garner as a cross between the two -- Sullivan hasn't met expectations in the pros while sometimes battling his weight and questions about his work ethic. He was listed at 6 feet 3 inches, 315 pounds entering last season, but was reportedly heavier than that at minicamp this past weekend.

Sullivan has played in 36 career games (17 starts), and is credited by Saints coaches with 102 tackles (66 solo) and 1.5 sacks while playing defensive tackle. The Saints used a 4-3 defense, while the Patriots prefer to be multiple, working out of a 3-4 but mixing in a 4-3 at times. Sullivan provides depth and flexibility and could line up at end or nose in the 3-4, or tackle in the 4-3. He is the fourth first-round pick to join the team's defensive line, along with starters Seymour (2001), Ty Warren (2003), and Vince Wilfork (2004).

While the Patriots are well-stocked on the defensive line, with 12 players, the top end of the receiving corps is thinned by Johnson's departure. Deion Branch heads the depth chart, followed by free agent signee Reche Caldwell, veteran Troy Brown, and rookie Chad Jackson. Jackson's strong performance in rookie minicamp last month might have made the Patriots more comfortable in trading Johnson.

The Patriots also must fill a void at kickoff returner, as Johnson had a team-high 31 returns in 2005. Seventh-round draft choice Willie Andrews, who holds the Baylor career records for kickoff returns (164) and yardage (2,596), is one candidate.

Meanwhile, as Johnson's plane prepared for takeoff yesterday afternoon, he reflected on his three years in New England.

``I'm going to miss the guys that I've gotten close with over the years," said Johnson, whose highlights included a clutch kickoff return for a touchdown in a 2003 regular-season game in Indianapolis and a key 48-yard catch against the Seahawks in 2004 to close out a regular-season victory.

``You go to two Super Bowls with a team, you've been through some battles, seen how a team could come together when nobody thought we could get it done, and you grow to love your teammates. There was a great camaraderie in that locker room and hopefully we will have that in New Orleans."

Optimism is high around the Saints after the team signed free agent quarterback Drew Brees and drafted running back Reggie Bush. They also have a first-year coach, Sean Payton.

``Things are exciting in New Orleans," Johnson said. ``I'm looking forward to getting there to add to the mix."
 
Thanks for posting that. I guess I really want to hear what Sullivan has to say.
 
Admitting mistakes crucial for Saints
Thursday, June 08, 2006
John DeShazier
The term "flea market" comes to mind with the Saints' most recent cleansing. The franchise gave away what once was considered top-quality merchandise for bargain-basement prices.


But so, too, should the word "correction," be used. That's what trading away defensive tackle Johnathan Sullivan and linebacker Courtney Watson more accurately represents -- a major correction of error.

"I think those guys are two guys that are talented players that have underachieved," General Manager Mickey Loomis said. "Sometimes when you have that, those guys need a change of venue as much as we need a change."

So forget for a moment that two players who once were expected to be mainstays in the starting lineup were handed over to New England and Buffalo for a couple of backups (receiver Bethel Johnson and tight end Tim Euhus).

Focus on this: Based on the play of Sullivan, the ballyhooed and expensive first-round bust of 2003, and Watson, the hoped-for missing link who simply went missing after being drafted in the second round of 2004, the Saints were lucky to get much more than a truckload of shoulder pads and a year's supply of Gatorade.

Be glad the team was able to cut its losses, because knowing when to admit a mistake and to correct it always has been a critical characteristic that any successful organization must have.

"It's hard to cut bait too early, because you're basically saying to everybody that you made a mistake," Loomis said. "And I don't like to make mistakes."

But it happens, plenty. It's what a franchise does afterward that's critical.

Now, despite the addition by subtraction via the trades, there's no need to be develop blindness. Obviously, the Saints run the risk of looking pretty dumb.

There's a possibility that Sullivan and Watson could become good players. A chance that, though first-year Coach Sean Payton needed about six months into 2006 to decide they weren't going to fit, he might have been able to "coach 'em up" in training camp and get more out of them than did his predecessor, Jim Haslett.

But knowing who doesn't fit is as critical as knowing who does. Getting rid of players who don't fit, quickly, is all a franchise can hope to do if it hopes to minimize the damage and repair it, rather than compound the fracture by holding on too long.

What Saints fans have to hope is that Payton will be as quick to pull the trigger on his own mistakes. That when the time comes, he can make the call to get rid of his own draft and free agents mistakes. Because that, too, will be critical to how successful his regime will be.

History shows that as a whole, coaches are much more adept at identifying the mistakes of the men they replace than honing in on, and erasing, their own.

The ones who set aside their personal feelings best -- think New England's Bill Belichick, Pittsburgh's Bill Cowher, Philadelphia's Andy Reid -- and admit their own errors, and do something about them, are the ones who win the most and survive the longest.

"No question (hanging on to players too long) occurs," Loomis said. "I think successful coaches resist that to some degree. But you want players to feel, too, that these (coaches) are 'our' guys."

Sullivan and Watson no longer were Saints guys. Neither were quarterback Aaron Brooks and offensive linemen Wayne Gandy and Kendyl Jacox, even though that quintet played in or started the majority of Saints games last season. Sullivan, the bust, might have been the most effective of them all, which speaks volumes about their play.

"We're trying to get Sean's program in place here," Loomis said. "Our job is to get him the tools to be successful."

So it's hard to fault those calls. The real judgment will come later, though, when Payton and Loomis have to make the call on players who were brought in under Payton.

When Payton will have to admit his own errors, and do something about them.

. . . . . . .
 
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