Breaking BAD season 5 starts tonight

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At the end of the last episode Walt is waiting and I'm thinking cue the Red Mini van..Does anyone else think his last phone call to Skyler with all the terrible things he said was for the benefit of any recorders and to try and throw her in the clear? I'm swaying between Walt as a basically good guy caught up in events or a genuinely bad guy coming into his own. The last several episodes have been a rocket ship of a ride for sure.
 
I think it was partially for her benefit. IIRC, there was also a point where she might have realized that and stopped being confrontational (and apologized).

While many people have chosen to see Walt almost like a cult hero, I think the show has become committed to portraying him as a truly terrible person. Even in this final episode when he was screaming about family, we all should know by now that his actions in recent episodes/seasons have been as much about personal protection than doing what's best for his family. Walt certainly started out as a good guy who got in over his head, but he turned into a ruthless criminal who consistently used murder and violence to save himself, protect his business and ultimately get his way. Many innocents have been impacted by Walt's personal ambitions.

That isn't to say I don't still like the character and root for him to win, but I don't think the writers regard him as the same Mr. Niceguy he was when they started. When the chips are down, you can always count on Walt to save himself - regardless of who must pay the price and how.

Last episode broke a record with over 6 million viewers. Well deserved because it was one amazing hour of television.
 
mooseontheloose said:
I think it was partially for her benefit. IIRC, there was also a point where she might have realized that and stopped being confrontational (and apologized).

While many people have chosen to see Walt almost like a cult hero, I think the show has become committed to portraying him as a truly terrible person. Even in this final episode when he was screaming about family, we all should know by now that his actions in recent episodes/seasons have been as much about personal protection than doing what's best for his family. Walt certainly started out as a good guy who got in over his head, but he turned into a ruthless criminal who consistently used murder and violence to save himself, protect his business and ultimately get his way. Many innocents have been impacted by Walt's personal ambitions.

That isn't to say I don't still like the character and root for him to win, but I don't think the writers regard him as the same Mr. Niceguy he was when they started. When the chips are down, you can always count on Walt to save himself - regardless of who must pay the price and how.

Last episode broke a record with over 6 million viewers. Well deserved because it was one amazing hour of television.
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Didn't he say all of that on the phone so he could basically get her off and put all of it on himself, he knew the cops were on the phone. No? By doing what he did, it looks as though she was forced into everything so she cannot be an accomplice.
 
Ya that is exactly what I meant. And if you watch the scene (recalling from memory here), I think she realized what he was doing at one point and you could see her temperament change.

What intrigued me was, assuming what you and I say is true, was that the plan from the moment he left the house? Did he take Holly solely for that purpose?
 
mooseontheloose said:
Ya that is exactly what I meant. And if you watch the scene (recalling from memory here), I think she realized what he was doing at one point and you could see her temperament change.

What intrigued me was, assuming what you and I say is true, was that the plan from the moment he left the house? Did he take Holly solely for that purpose?
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That is what I am thinking. Right after that he dropped her off at the fire station. Yeah though her attitude did change at that moment, she could see what he was doing. So basically its showdown time with WW and Jessie, and Todd is still as ruthless as they come.
 
fulltilt said:
At the end of the last episode Walt is waiting and I'm thinking cue the Red Mini van..Does anyone else think his last phone call to Skyler with all the terrible things he said was for the benefit of any recorders and to try and throw her in the clear? I'm swaying between Walt as a basically good guy caught up in events or a genuinely bad guy coming into his own. The last several episodes have been a rocket ship of a ride for sure.
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The writer of the episode confirms that he was doing it for her benefit.
link

"The conversation between Walt and Skyler (Anna Gunn) outside the firehouse was heartbreaking and loaded with subtext, as Walt found a way to shield the family and distance Skyler from the mess he created. What did you want to accomplish with that scene?
It’s one last attempt to make some small gesture toward saving the family that he’s already lost. And baby Holly was the last piece. He realized that he couldn’t do it. What was fascinating about writing that scene was that the vestiges of Walter White had to play Heisenberg who’s a very real part of him and not the other way around. He had to identify the monstrous qualities of himself in order to effect the lie and protect his family."
 
So i haven't read anything in this thread yet so that i don't see anything that will ruin it for me. I did watch the first episode and i think I'm gonna like this show. I feel like I've seen part of it before but i don't remember. Anyway I'll be back to read if i ever catch up to you all lol
 
mooseontheloose said:
I think it was partially for her benefit. IIRC, there was also a point where she might have realized that and stopped being confrontational (and apologized).

While many people have chosen to see Walt almost like a cult hero, I think the show has become committed to portraying him as a truly terrible person. Even in this final episode when he was screaming about family, we all should know by now that his actions in recent episodes/seasons have been as much about personal protection than doing what's best for his family. Walt certainly started out as a good guy who got in over his head, but he turned into a ruthless criminal who consistently used murder and violence to save himself, protect his business and ultimately get his way. Many innocents have been impacted by Walt's personal ambitions.

That isn't to say I don't still like the character and root for him to win, but I don't think the writers regard him as the same Mr. Niceguy he was when they started. When the chips are down, you can always count on Walt to save himself - regardless of who must pay the price and how.

Last episode broke a record with over 6 million viewers. Well deserved because it was one amazing hour of television.
Click to expand...

Vince Gilligan (show creator) has said that it was his goal to do something never before done in television with a character. To take a character and not just evolve or change him in some way, but to gradually turn him into a completely different person. I think Walter White started as a good guy in a bad situation, but has now become somtheing completely different. He is beyond salvation. He truly has become someone else. He's no longer a good person.

Breaking Bad has surpassed Dexter, imo, as the best piece of episodic television ever. It is truly a masterpiece. Never before on film have we seen such a complex and intricate character study.

Can't wait to see how they end it.
 
Den-in-NH said:
Vince Gilligan (show creator) has said that it was his goal to do something never before done in television with a character. To take a character and not just evolve or change him in some way, but to gradually turn him into a completely different person. I think Walter White started as a good guy in a bad situation, but has now become somtheing completely different. He is beyond salvation. He truly has become someone else. He's no longer a good person.

Breaking Bad has surpassed Dexter, imo, as the best piece of episodic television ever. It is truly a masterpiece. Never before on film have we seen such a complex and intricate character study.

Can't wait to see how they end it.
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Ya, that is how I see it too. Walter stopped being a nice guy long ago and is as ruthless (if not more) than the regulars in the world he chose to enter.

As for the Dexter comment, I think it surpassed it long ago. Dexter has had far too many weak seasons to really compare to Breaking Bad. While Seasons 1, 2 and 4 of Dexter were incredible, the rest really weren't. Season 3, 5, 6 and 8 (ugh) are all pretty weak, especially 6 and 8. While I still feel like Dexter's top 3 seasons are some of the best TV seasons I've ever seen, I have to appreciate the ultimate consistency of Breaking Bad. It's had its down moments, but the swings from its best to worst are so much smaller, and it has been more consistently amazing than Dexter.

I might still give the edge to Dexter if you take its best season versus Breaking Bad's best season, but taken as an entire series it's hard for anything to measure up to Breaking Bad.

It also doesn't help that this final season of Dexter has been horrifically bad :(
 
mooseontheloose said:
It also doesn't help that this final season of Dexter has been horrifically bad :(
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Not that Dexter's writing team hasn't brought most of this on themselves but the show is also a victim of circumstance. Running it's final season in line with BB's was just crap luck (and possibly poor foresight on Showtime's part). What makes it even worse is that many fans of both shows are probably watching Dexter "live" while recording Breaking Bad and then immediately watching BB. The inevitable comparisons have made an already weak Dexter season seem abysmal.
 
steveluck7 said:
Not that Dexter's writing team hasn't brought most of this on themselves but the show is also a victim of circumstance. Running it's final season in line with BB's was just crap luck (and possibly poor foresight on Showtime's part). What makes it even worse is that many fans of both shows are probably watching Dexter "live" while recording Breaking Bad and then immediately watching BB. The inevitable comparisons have made an already weak Dexter season seem abysmal.
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Maybe, but even on its own it is terrible. I've been recording both, watching BB late on Sundays and then Dexter on Monday evenings. The season simply sucks.

Dr. Vogel was an interesting addition at the beginning and then her story just went no where. Deb recovered from a near-psychotic state to finish the 2nd half of the season completely normal, as if none of that "off the deep end" stuff had even happened. The entire storyline with Zac was kind of weak, but had potential. Hannah's return was obviously coming, but it's been pretty boring. And Saxon is a truly boring nemesis. The end result is that the season has felt a lot like Season 3 - tons of boring characters and endless posturing to setup the finale. Seriously, think back to what has actually happened this season - not much, right? Many episodes seemed to do nothing but try to set up the next one, only to have nothing happen in that one.

We've also reached a point where characters have become so stupid that it breaks from the realm of 'suspending disbelief' into one of complete lunacy. Hannah and Deb have both acted like complete idiots in recent episodes.

Quinn hasn't done much this season. Batista has been completely worthless as a character. Honestly, WTF has he done all season except show up for some procedural talk or crappy pep talk once an episode? Masuka's storyline was awful, and ended so poorly I'm left speechless.

I love Dexter, but this season has been one of, if not the worst season. I'm pretty sure Saxon has killed more people than Dexter has. Moreover, the forced effort to 'transform' Dexter into a regular emotional person has been a failure. On Sunday when he just randomly decides not to kill Saxon, I almost punched my TV. I miss the old cerebral Dexter, but even in the new character arc his decision makes no damn sense. IF he was truly acting with his emotions, his desire for a revenge killing (instead of an urge killing) would have been far more interesting and effective. Instead, the writers setup the super predictable "he's going to escape and hurt someone close to Dexter" scenario. Stupid.

The stories and execution have both sucked. It's just been 11 episodes of boring mini stories and one truly awful main storyline. At this point I don't think there is anything they can do to save the show, but perhaps the finale has something half-decent in store. One can only hope.

TLDR: Even as an avid fan of the show, I think its weaknesses are apparent taken on their own. It's just been a terrible way to end it all.
 
Moose, I agree with absolutely everything you say. I was just pointing out that on top of that, being lined up against BB's finale season has made them somehow look even worse.

I'll add... what the eff with bringing in Masuka's daughter? you go 7+ seasons having him just be a goof off, comic relief type, ancillary character and you wait until the last season to try add some depth?
 
steveluck7 said:
Moose, I agree with absolutely everything you say. I was just pointing out that on top of that, being lined up against BB's finale season has made them somehow look even worse.

I'll add... what the eff with bringing in Masuka's daughter? you go 7+ seasons having him just be a goof off, comic relief type, ancillary character and you wait until the last season to try add some depth?
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Even funnier that they basically just gave up on it halfway through. Her last two contributions were the pot scene and then the eating scene this past week. What did adding her really accomplish? Vince was barely in this season at all, and almost all of his screen time was as part of the daughter storyline. It's just another example of the small terrible decisions that added up to one giant failure of a final season.

Almost every single holdover character has been less interesting this season than in the past. Perhaps the only one who was somewhat interesting was Deb, if you can ignore the Jekyll and Hyde level transformation. Otherwise, the supporting case (new and old) has sucked. Dexter has also turned into a sniveling girl.

You're right though, BB's achievements make Dexter's failing all the more painful. I really need to rewatch Dexter's early seasons before I'm left remembering it only for its failings :(
 
TBrownslady said:
So i haven't read anything in this thread yet so that i don't see anything that will ruin it for me. I did watch the first episode and i think I'm gonna like this show. I feel like I've seen part of it before but i don't remember. Anyway I'll be back to read if i ever catch up to you all lol
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What ever you do don't read the thread because its filled with spoilers...
I saw the first half of season five, but I haven't seen the 2nd half.. Although I've been cheating with the AMC synopsis with spoilers, and I know what's going on, and I must say its freaking phenomenal..
 
IMO WW is going to go on a rampage and will kick some serious ass.. Almost Rambo like, and in the end he is on a tropical Island with his family drinking cocktails. Then suddenly you see him back in the car on the first show of season one changing his mind about going into the life of crime... The End
 
I think the ending is going to be something special. What they have created here in just a few seasons is mind boggling. Walt has disappeared himself (no doubt to gain some breathing room ) and Jessie is still waiting to be killed. I wonder if Skyler will do it to protect Walt at the last? Hanks widow still hasn't had the chance to rage out yet either..The really cool thing is we will all know soon..
 
imapig said:
IMO WW is going to go on a rampage and will kick some serious ass.. Almost Rambo like, and in the end he is on a tropical Island with his family drinking cocktails. Then suddenly you see him back in the car on the first show of season one changing his mind about going into the life of crime... The End
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ROFL I think this would piss off people even more than the Sopranos ending
 
After watching that shitshow of a series finale that the writers of Dexter completely screwed up* (I mean, really?), I'm really hoping that the Breaking Bad team pull of something that makes some kind of sense.

*
Dexter becomes a sad lumberjack? WTF?
 
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