Can we phase McDaniels out of the offense?

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RonBrace

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I don't know, I'm getting a little sick of Welker being on the bench for Edelman, incomplete passes or drops to Lloyd, and Woodhead running into the line for 1 yard.

I didn't think it was possible for this offense to look bad, but somehow Josh has made it so.
 
RonBrace said:
I don't know, I'm getting a little sick of Welker being on the bench for Edelman, incomplete passes or drops to Lloyd, and Woodhead running into the line for 1 yard.

I didn't think it was possible for this offense to look bad, but somehow Josh has made it so.
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The weird play call happens when they huddle, when they run no huddle it seems they are calling perfect plays on every down, that should tell you something.
 
Woodhead has had some awesome and very important plays for us this year. I wouldn't be so quick to phase him out of the offense.

Rest I kind of agree with, but I think Lloyd will come good. He's on target for around 1000 yards this year and I'll take it-- just wish we would see him make more makeable catches and less circus ones.
 
Oh, no, I like Woodhead as a third down back, I just don't want him as the power back.

And I forgot about the "trick" plays, the Edelman reverse that lost 15 yards, and the flea flicker today. The Patriots aren't that type of team. Leave that stuff to the Cleveland Browns.
 
Why was Mcdaniels brought back in the first place? Before he got there, it seemed like the Patriots were able to bring in all types of guys other then (CHad Johnson) and they were really effective. I know that Mcdaniels had a really good run with the team before he went off to Denver, but I didn't think he was needed when they brought him back. I too, would like to see Mcdaniels phased out, but that isn't going to happen unfortunately.
 
RonBrace said:
Oh, no, I like Woodhead as a third down back, I just don't want him as the power back.

And I forgot about the "trick" plays, the Edelman reverse that lost 15 yards, and the flea flicker today. The Patriots aren't that type of team. Leave that stuff to the Cleveland Browns.
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Woodhead is still the best of the four RBs in blitz pick-up (though Bolden had become fairly good before his injury). Woody is still the most accomplished route runner and the most familiar with the no-huddle calls. Ridley is coming into some of that slowly (though he hasn't shown consistently effective power, either, over the past two games). So, for the time being, Woody is still the RB for more situations than just 3rd downs, which means that he'll inevitably get a couple carries up the gut just to keep the defense honest.

BTW, Ridley was waaaay too slow on his turn-and-pitch-back. He went at least a step too many toward the line. Otherwise, that might have actually worked.
 
I have to admit I'm not impressed with JMD offensive calls or Lloyd or Edleman as players. Edleman has potiential but playing him in favor of Welker is just plain stupid.
The patriots as a team this season are an average team.

It is what it is.
 
Texxx said:
Why was Mcdaniels brought back in the first place? Before he got there, it seemed like the Patriots were able to bring in all types of guys other then (CHad Johnson) and they were really effective. I know that Mcdaniels had a really good run with the team before he went off to Denver, but I didn't think he was needed when they brought him back. I too, would like to see Mcdaniels phased out, but that isn't going to happen unfortunately.
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Honestly, the play-calling hasn't been very good for a few years. Last season, for example, the Pats were one of the most predictable run teams I've ever seen play the game.

Fortunately for McD and previous offensive coaches, Tom Brady is the team's QB and he is surrounded by great talent. That being said - IMO, superb production from Brady and guys like Gronk (last year) had less to do with play-calling and more to do with Brady's skill as a QB and field marshal.

Not trying to dump on the coaches, I just don't think play-calling has been a strong suit for this team - on either side of the ball - in quite some time.
 
The trick plays on 3rd downs are a bit silly and I'm not sure how long until he gets it.
 
What irks me most about McD is his penchant for sell out deep passes on first down. Sure you can pass on first down. Sure you can send a reciever on a deep route. But dont sell out and send multiple receivers deep. Way too low percentages to make a second and long, or worse, worth it. Its like betting a single mumber in roulette. If you hit, the result is awesome. But the odds are against it.
 
shirtsleeve said:
What irks me most about McD is his penchant for sell out deep passes on first down. Sure you can pass on first down. Sure you can send a reciever on a deep route. But dont sell out and send multiple receivers deep. Way too low percentages to make a second and long, or worse, worth it. Its like betting a single mumber in roulette. If you hit, the result is awesome. But the odds are against it.
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Yup. I don't even think Lloyd is being respected as a deep threat like we'd hoped he would... the deep shots they take are :spock:
 
Someone also mentioned something about obvious run plays and I agree with that. The team will go from being in a 5 wide or 4 WR 1 RB shotgun set and then the next play come out in a standard I...it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize which play is a run and which is a pass. So a lot of this seems to be also in the personnel grouping. Around 2008 or so they used to come out in an I formation with Welker as the WR..quite obvious a run. That's why they use Lloyd in those sets as the WR so that teams can respect the pass, to an extent. IMO, at times, the grouping is also confusing as is the play calling.

The strange thing about the trick plays is that they seemingly never occur at a convenient time of the game and it looks unorganized and unpracticed. I'm not necessarily challenging that we don't have the talent on offense to run trick plays successfully but they're not at the point yet where they can actually execute them.
 
The Hoodie said:
Someone also mentioned something about obvious run plays and I agree with that. The team will go from being in a 5 wide or 4 WR 1 RB shotgun set and then the next play come out in a standard I...it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize which play is a run and which is a pass. So a lot of this seems to be also in the personnel grouping. Around 2008 or so they used to come out in an I formation with Welker as the WR..quite obvious a run. That's why they use Lloyd in those sets as the WR so that teams can respect the pass, to an extent. IMO, at times, the grouping is also confusing as is the play calling.

The strange thing about the trick plays is that they seemingly never occur at a convenient time of the game and it looks unorganized and unpracticed. I'm not necessarily challenging that we don't have the talent on offense to run trick plays successfully but they're not at the point yet where they can actually execute them.
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They do not need to run a trick play, this offense moves the ball well enough to not have to resort to trick plays.
 
Lloyd certainly had a bad game yesterday - one catch (6 yds) out of eight targets and getting hosed on an OPI call.

However . . .

Not sure what effect this weekend's games will have, but, at the start of wk-7, Lloyd was ahead of Torrey Smith, Julio Jones, Vincent Jackson, Andre Johnson and Mike Wallace (and several other notables) in catches, yards and first downs and roughly the same in % of targets caught (and better than Lloyd's own career average). Defenses are often putting their best cover guy on him. Brady has been targeting him mainly on low-percentage throws (deep and sideline) and Lloyd has been drawing coverage away from other areas. I'm not seeing a problem here. The guy appears to be doing precisely what I (at least) expected he'd do and what I think the Pats hired him to do. If folks were expecting the second coming of Randy Moss, well, yeah, I can see how they're terribly disappointed.

Branch, OTOH, is in serious need of replacement.
 
mooseontheloose said:
Honestly, the play-calling hasn't been very good for a few years. Last season, for example, the Pats were one of the most predictable run teams I've ever seen play the game.

Fortunately for McD and previous offensive coaches, Tom Brady is the team's QB and he is surrounded by great talent. That being said - IMO, superb production from Brady and guys like Gronk (last year) had less to do with play-calling and more to do with Brady's skill as a QB and field marshal.

Not trying to dump on the coaches, I just don't think play-calling has been a strong suit for this team - on either side of the ball - in quite some time.
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Last season, the Pats pretty much had two RBs they could count on. One (BGE) could run inside, but not outside. The other could run outside, but not inside. I don't see how play-calling could have made that any less predictable.
 
shirtsleeve said:
What irks me most about McD is his penchant for sell out deep passes on first down. Sure you can pass on first down. Sure you can send a reciever on a deep route. But dont sell out and send multiple receivers deep. Way too low percentages to make a second and long, or worse, worth it. Its like betting a single mumber in roulette. If you hit, the result is awesome. But the odds are against it.
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Certainly by comparison to the past couple "post-Moss" seasons, the Pats are running/targeting more deep routes, but I see it as a bit like play-action. The safeties and LBs won't cheat up against the threat of a run unless you actually run the ball on a regular basis. Similarly, the safeties won't clear out of the intermediate middle if you don't throw deep on a regular basis.
 
MaineMan said:
Last season, the Pats pretty much had two RBs they could count on. One (BGE) could run inside, but not outside. The other could run outside, but not inside. I don't see how play-calling could have made that any less predictable.
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Really? Because it's not all that different than this year.

Run 5-wide over and over, throw in a few 4-wide 1-RB formations where they run probably 40% of the time (being generous).

Switch to I-formation = run probably 75% of the time.

It had nothing to do with the personnel. I would watch games and I'd find myself thinking "Oop, here comes a run" and 5 seconds later there are 3 defenders in the backfield blowing up the play for a loss. Maybe they felt limited in how they could approach the running game, but it was still too predictable in terms of formations.
 
Only an idiot would call Woodhead on power and he did it twice. Why?
 
Moose - I agree - at this point in the season the Pats are doing very little to disguise the run or pass. It seems odd and almost arrogant. I am guessing this is to set things up for later in the season and playoffs when they show a set that they have a 75% tendency to run out of and then throw and vice versa.

Overall though, I am thrilled that we are trying to runt he ball a lot. I want us to run the ball as much as we can. We need to pass too, but if we can become a run first offense, that takes a lot of pressure off the defenseless.
 
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