Jakobi Meyers to the Raiders

[chevss454]

Ju Ju is also not good at YAC either and so the entire YAC argument about Meyers does not hold water. It was a nice try to try to defend the organization for a day though

.

Look at their TDs scored.

 

[aloyouis]

OK you're right. Mahomes’ season with him bumped it up. His prior 4 seasons were poor at 53%, 75%, 60%, 66% catch rate. Not good. Point still stands that he’s not a better receiver than Jakobi Meyers is, just has more pedigree. He’s also had far worse seasons than Meyers had. 2 straight years averaging 8 yards per catch was terrible. JuJu isn’t fast

So, what NFL do you root for anyway? Just curious.

 

[HSanders]

Everyone is missing the biggest stat where Juju is better. TDs!! for God's sake.

29 in 6 years vs 8 in 4 for Jakobi.

They're very similar players but Juju gets open in the EZ.
What was our biggest issue on O last year? RZ production. He'll help that an awful lot.

Now we need our WR1.

i buy that it's a talent/skill upgrade, 100% . i just don't like "memememelookatmememeimontiktoksnapchatinstantface" guys.

 

[chevss454]

Classy by Jakobi.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Look at their TDs scored.

Yes let's look at it.
Jakobi 8 TDs the last 2 years
JuJu 3 TDs the last 2 years

JuJu is not some juggernaut TD machine. His yards per catch is not better than Jakobi's. And if the team actually cared about YAC then Bourne and Jonnu wouldn't have been buried last year. The offensive strategy is not coherent.

 

[Grogan]

The below is ridiculous especially when the Pats had no qualms giving Agholor even more per year for less prior production. They wouldn’t match 11M? Starting to doubt whoever is doing analytics in this front office. If it’s that kid Rothstein he needs to be fired alongside the jettisoned Patricia

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/DakRandallNESN/status/1635674246574665730

If this is true,

i buy that it's a talent/skill upgrade, 100% . i just don't like "memememelookatmememeimontiktoksnapchatinstantface" guys.

It's ar least a push in my mind, you just have to wonder what they see in Ju Ju that they didn't in Myers? Maybe a little more quickness.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

If this is true,

It's ar least a push in my mind, you just have to wonder what they see in Ju Ju that they didn't in Myers? Maybe a little more quickness.

Just a better name / pedigree. I don't think JuJu is a better WR.
JuJu has more YAC but since when have the Pats cared about YAC (looking at underused Bourne + Jonnu Smith). Meyers has the same or better yards per catch and very reliable + durable. It's also unclear if JuJu can even pick up the playbook or fit in.

End of the day this basically takes them back to baseline with Jakobi gone now. Team isn't better than a week ago though.

 

[Big/Sky/Fly]

Just a better name / pedigree. I don't think JuJu is a better WR.
JuJu has more YAC but since when have the Pats cared about YAC (looking at underused Bourne + Jonnu Smith). Meyers has the same or better yards per catch and very reliable + durable. It's also unclear if JuJu can even pick up the playbook or fit in.

End of the day this basically takes them back to baseline with Jakobi gone now. Team isn't better than a week ago though.

Hey, I never heard Rothstein yet today...thoughts?

 

[aloyouis]

Just a better name / pedigree. I don't think JuJu is a better WR.
JuJu has more YAC but since when have the Pats cared about YAC (looking at underused Bourne + Jonnu Smith). Meyers has the same or better yards per catch and very reliable + durable. It's also unclear if JuJu can even pick up the playbook or fit in.

End of the day this basically takes them back to baseline with Jakobi gone now. Team isn't better than a week ago though.

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[DropKickFlutie]

The Raiders have been doing multiple of these sneaky type deals where it’s not actually guaranteed money and they can cut a guy after 1 season. Don’t know who Jakobi’s agent was but they should have pushed back on this. It also makes it even more ridiculous the Pats didn’t even try to keep Jakobi who basically just signed a 1yr/11M deal

Jakobi Meyers Contract Details Surprisingly Team-Friendly For Raiders

The reported details of Jakobi Meyers' Las Vegas Raiders contract shouldn't have been difficult for the New England Patriots to match.

nesn.com

 

[sg14]

Devin McCourty was on radio yesterday and he was disappointed with this move. Said Jakobi was the perfect example of a player. Worked hard like Edelman. Should have been a future core player.

And when you get new guys in you never know how that new guy fits. That's why you see so many players sign with their old team throughout the league.

 

[aloyouis]

Devin McCourty was on radio yesterday and he was disappointed with this move. Said Jakobi was the perfect example of a player. Worked hard like Edelman. Should have been a future core player.

And when you get new guys in you never know how that new guy fits. That's why you see so many players sign with their old team throughout the league.

Could very well be a bad trade off. My question is simply: Why do this? As I am always asking, what don't we know?

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Devin McCourty was on radio yesterday and he was disappointed with this move. Said Jakobi was the perfect example of a player. Worked hard like Edelman. Should have been a future core player.

And when you get new guys in you never know how that new guy fits. That's why you see so many players sign with their old team throughout the league.

Says a lot that McCourty said that. Before all this news McCourty had named Jakobi, Dugger, and Jon Jones as future locker room leaders of the Pats. So losing Jakobi was a huge loss in terms of leadership and the Patriot way.

 

[spacecrime]

Hypothetically, let's assume we have Meyers circa 2023, some other decent WRs, and a rookie that Belichick reached for in round 5. The rookie wasn't even invited to the combine, is rated 5.10 on NFL.com's 8 point scale where 5.5-5.6 is a priority UDFA. He's undersized at 5'10"/185, but both fast and quick, and just totally raw. The Pats' draft was graded a C+ by SI, and this rookie wasn't even named as a notable pick. The guy that fits that description, BTW? Tyreek Hill.

Meyers is great, I love the kid. The problem that someone like Meyers brings, especially when he has a tight relationship with the QB, is that he sucks up targets. He gets separation, has reliable hands. On a slant route designed to get 8 yards, you'll complete the pass 80% of the time and get 8 yards. But the kid who isn't getting the chance to run that route would get 70% completions. He'd get 8 yards 30% of the time, 10 yards 30% of the time, 15 yards 5% of the time, and 30+ yards 5% of the time.

"But for" Meyers, Bourne and Thornton would have gotten more reps, and more targets on the reps they got. Ben Coates was great for Bledsoe to have as a rookie, and maybe the next year or so. But after that he probably stunted Bledsoe's development, because he gave Bledsoe easy outs. If they trade for Hopkins, he's redundant. If they trade for Jeudy, you don't want Meyers stunting the development of that relationship with Mac, and you don't want him taking targets away from Jeudy. If you draft a WR1 this year, chances are it's a slot/quick guy, who would be competing directly against Meyers for snaps.

The Patriots have some very nice options at WR2/3/4. Bourne has barely scratched his potential - 2021 was closer to what I'd expect from him. Thornton is just learning to play the pro game, but can change a defense.

The reason the Patriots' offense under Brady worked wasn't just because they could roll up first downs, but because the people that they used to do it - Gronk, Edelman, etc. had the potential to pop a short gain into a big play at any time, and punished a defense both physically and mentally - any mistake in coverage was deadly, and any physical letdown after the catch was costly.

Every snap is an opportunity. Taking the 80% chance of 8 yards is always at the cost of the 90% 3 yard run, the slightly lower percentage of the 8 yards that breaks for more, or the 40% chance of hitting a deep corner. Meyers doesn't tax or exhaust a defense. He doesn't give you the benefit of any upside volatility around the results of the high-percentage passing plays.

If you don't have any upside volatility around the results of the high-percentage passing plays, you have to turn to lower percentage passing plays to try to get your chunk yardage. That was a big part of the problem with the offense in recent years. Bourne, Thornton, Jeudy, Hopkins, Henry getting more targets is a step to solving that. Almost any WR taking those 8 yard slants will provide more upside vol, and many of those will not lose you all that much in completion percentage. But if they don't get their chances, it doesn't matter.

Another great analysis looking at possibilities I hadn't thought of

 

[sg14]

Per Mike Lombardi, the Raiders are replacing Waller with Jakobi.
While Waller has much more talent he hasn't been all that productive. Been out due to injuries and also hasn't met team goals on following procedures for said injuries.
Waller plays in the slot mostly.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Per Mike Lombardi, the Raiders are replacing Waller with Jakobi.
While Waller has much more talent he hasn't been all that productive. Been out due to injuries and also hasn't met team goals on following procedures for said injuries.
Waller plays in the slot mostly.

No decent tight end. Bold move to go back to the vaunted 2011 St Louis Rams 32nd ranked offense. Or the 2020 Patriots offense. McIdiot doesn’t learn. He’ll go no-TE spread offense as the franchise goes down in flames

 

[DropKickFlutie]

The reason the Patriots' offense under Brady worked wasn't just because they could roll up first downs, but because the people that they used to do it - Gronk, Edelman, etc. had the potential to pop a short gain into a big play at any time, and punished a defense both physically and mentally - any mistake in coverage was deadly, and any physical letdown after the catch was costly.

Every snap is an opportunity. Taking the 80% chance of 8 yards is always at the cost of the 90% 3 yard run, the slightly lower percentage of the 8 yards that breaks for more, or the 40% chance of hitting a deep corner. Meyers doesn't tax or exhaust a defense. He doesn't give you the benefit of any upside volatility around the results of the high-percentage passing plays.

If you don't have any upside volatility around the results of the high-percentage passing plays, you have to turn to lower percentage passing plays to try to get your chunk yardage. That was a big part of the problem with the offense in recent years. Bourne, Thornton, Jeudy, Hopkins, Henry getting more targets is a step to solving that. Almost any WR taking those 8 yard slants will provide more upside vol, and many of those will not lose you all that much in completion percentage. But if they don't get their chances, it doesn't matter.

This is well written but has a fundamental premise wrong in the example. Jakobi averaged 12 yards per catch. He was a first down machine. So it wasn’t like your example where he mostly caught a ton of 8-yard balls and fell immediately. Over half the time Jakobi caught a ton of 15-yard balls and got tackled. In your example it was actually JuJu who put up full seasons only averaging 8-yards per catch, meaning a ton of times he fell down after a 5-yard catch. Jakobi was also great in the “gotta get it” 3rd downs, because his route running was so good. They don’t have that go-guy anymore, nobody is Mr-Reliable on 3rd down.

Finally, I agree in high completion percentage quick throws and let your players create yards. I like that kind of offense, dink and dunk, move the chains and own the clock. It’s the antithesis of the crappy deep throw chuck it plays. But in an offense like this, they should feature Kendrick Bourne a LOT more as he’s excellent in YAC. The entire offense should focus on quick throws. Right now this offense is schizophrenic and doesn’t know what it’s about. The only longer developing plays should be play action after setting up a run threat. This team doesn’t have the offensive tackles for a deep-drop, vertical offense.

 

[rabidfireweasel]

I really think that his early comments questioning the game plan of the team together with one of all time dumbest laterals, in a huge game with playoff implications, I have ever seen was plenty to be a dealbreaker.

I haven’t seen a lateral that dumb in 1st-2nd grade flag football- and those 7 year olds love to lateral at any opportunity. If you are going to scrap the game plan and do it your own way, with your own call, your own call can’t be stupid.

Meyers seems to get a giant free pass on this from fans. It’s like there is a collective amnesia about it. It wasn’t a physical error, like a drop. It was an all time historically poor NFL decision. In a season filled with mental errors, stupid penalties, and lack of focus, it was by far the biggest errors. All of the press, there were folks saying “This is shocking to see this play on a Belichick coached team.” It was humiliating. I think once that play happened, he was dead to Bill.
Combine the questioning, the stupidity of the lateral, and the marginal physical talent/upside and you have an ex patriot. I simply can’t see where this surprises anyone. You can’t talk out of turn, then directly be part of a huge loss through stupidity and get resigned for tens of millions of dollars unless you are a star who more often than not can single-handedly help you win games. Jakobi Meyers is not a star. He is a role player who stepped out of his role.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

I really think that his early comments questioning the game plan of the team together with one of all time dumbest laterals, in a huge game with playoff implications, I have ever seen was plenty to be a dealbreaker.

I haven’t seen a lateral that dumb in 1st-2nd grade flag football- and those 7 year olds love to lateral at any opportunity. If you are going to scrap the game plan and do it your own way, with your own call, your own call can’t be stupid.

Meyers seems to get a giant free pass on this from fans. It’s like there is a collective amnesia about it. It wasn’t a physical error, like a drop. It was an all time historically poor NFL decision. In a season filled with mental errors, stupid penalties, and lack of focus, it was by far the biggest errors. All of the press, there were folks saying “This is shocking to see this play on a Belichick coached team.” It was humiliating. I think once that play happened, he was dead to Bill.
Combine the questioning, the stupidity of the lateral, and the marginal physical talent/upside and you have an ex patriot. I simply can’t see where this surprises anyone. You can’t talk out of turn, then directly be part of a huge loss through stupidity and get resigned for tens of millions of dollars unless you are a star who more often than not can single-handedly help you win games. Jakobi Meyers is not a star. He is a role player who stepped out of his role.

Good first two posts towing Patriots’ storylines. Welcome to the forum

If you’re going to say the lateral play was a killer for Jakobi, then the real dummy was actually Mondre who initiated the first moronic lateral on that play. So is Mondre F’d in this team’s future plans ??

 

[rabidfireweasel]

I see this a lot; people either blame Rhamondre for the first lateral or the coaching staff for running it, or Mac for getting steamrolled. However, the only incredibly stupid part of the play was Jakobi.

Rhamondre, while not advised, did a simple lateral to an open player, two yards away, on the last play of a game. This is not smart, but not unusual at all. We have seen these plays literally hundreds of time. The Meyers throw, in a tie game, with playoff implications, is historically stupid.

Given that Rhamondre has not openly questioned game planning, not made one of the dumbest plays in NFL history and is able to put up about 50% more yards than Meyers has in any season in his career, I would say he is safe for now. However, I wouldn’t be shocked if he doesn’t get extended. The patriots typically might extend a 3rd down back, but rarely extend a primary ball carrier.