Jon Jones is right on gambling

[Flagg the Wanderer]

View: https://twitter.com/justjjones/status/1674534062348705794?s=20


If you're going to cozy up to gambling, there is no reason not to allow players to make money line bets on their own team to win. Since they can track who is betting on what, you can make sure no one is betting on other teams, betting spreads, etc.

This is what I always said during the Pete Rose controversy: rules are rules, but it doesn't make sense to bar players from making money line bets on their team to win.

 

[3 Point Stan]

View: https://twitter.com/justjjones/status/1674534062348705794?s=20


If you're going to cozy up to gambling, there is no reason not to allow players to make money line bets on their own team to win. Since they can track who is betting on what, you can make sure no one is betting on other teams, betting spreads, etc.

This is what I always said during the Pete Rose controversy: rules are rules, but it doesn't make sense to bar players from making money line bets on their team to win.

Generally speaking, I agree Jones' sentiment.

However, it is such a slippery slope to allow gambling on the sport that employs you in any fashion. I am madly in love with the game of baseball and am probably the last generation who grew up buying the Guinness Book of World records every year to see who inched closer to Hank Aaron on the all-time HR list, or if Rickey Henderson had broken Lou Brock's stolen base record. After Barry Bonds & Co., there is no longer any reason to waste your time with those childhood fantasies any longer. MLB's all-time home run, and all-time hits leaders are not in the baseball HOF for two very different reasons.

I know there are a lot of people who think that Rose should get in because gambling is just a vice and if you're only betting on you're team to win, what's the harm? Well, let me introduce you to the story of a pitcher named Mario Soto who was managed by Pete Rose. Even if players, coaches and employees of NFL teams were allowed to gamble on their teams to win, this story is a great example of the pitfalls of betting on your own team.

That being said, I wish the NFL had steered clear of this in the first place.

 

[Flagg the Wanderer]

Generally speaking, I agree Jones' sentiment.

However, it is such a slippery slope to allow gambling on the sport that employs you in any fashion. I am madly in love with the game of baseball and am probably the last generation who grew up buying the Guinness Book of World records every year to see who inched closer to Hank Aaron on the all-time HR list, or if Rickey Henderson had broken Lou Brock's stolen base record. After Barry Bonds & Co., there is no longer any reason to waste your time with those childhood fantasies any longer. MLB's all-time home run, and all-time hits leaders are not in the baseball HOF for two very different reasons.

I know there are a lot of people who think that Rose should get in because gambling is just a vice and if you're only betting on you're team to win, what's the harm? Well, let me introduce you to the story of a pitcher named Mario Soto who was managed by Pete Rose. Even if players, coaches and employees of NFL teams were allowed to gamble on their teams to win, this story is a great example of the pitfalls of betting on your own team.

That being said, I wish the NFL had steered clear of this in the first place.

I agree with all of this, and a manager is in a slightly different place than a player, I guess. I always thought of Rose as a player rather than a manager.

It is a slippery slope, and I think the NFL should have kept it all at arm's length, if not antagonistic. But if you're allowing players to bet at all, allowing them to place money line bets on their own team to win makes sense to me.

 

[king of kings]

View: https://twitter.com/justjjones/status/1674534062348705794?s=20


If you're going to cozy up to gambling, there is no reason not to allow players to make money line bets on their own team to win. Since they can track who is betting on what, you can make sure no one is betting on other teams, betting spreads, etc.

This is what I always said during the Pete Rose controversy: rules are rules, but it doesn't make sense to bar players from making money line bets on their team to win.

Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. NFL is partnering with these sites. Doesn't mean players should break the simplest rule . They're not allowed to Bet on their sport or Team. I hope the NFL continues to make examples of players.

 

[HSanders]

it's like saying players can't get lapdances from strippers even though the nfl is making money off those strippers themselves. just retarded.

 

[Flagg the Wanderer]

Jones wants Legalized point shaving. Players can directly affect the outcome of their bets. That doesn't matter since it not fair. NFL is making money sponsorship deal . l

That's not what he said at all. Bet on himself to win - money line bets. No one thinks betting the spread should be okay.

 

[Flagg the Wanderer]

Thats called his NFL contract & Bonuses. History will repeat itself. If you think that wont happen.

What?

 

[Flagg the Wanderer]

He wants to get on him self to win. Is called his Next NFL contract. Lamar jackson bet on himself got a massive pay day.
I'm not going to help you. If you don't know your history. Why that simple rule very important.

I know my history. What is the benefit of stopping a player from making a money wine bet on their own team to win? How can it harm the integrity of the game? I'm not talking prop bets, I'm not talking point lines. A straight up or down bet on at player's own team to win. You're worried that he's going to try a little harder?

To be clear, I don't think players, coaches or anybody affiliated with the team or the league should be allowed to bet at all. But if they're going to allow it, betting on your own team to win a particular game is the one thing that doesn't hurt the integrity of the game.

 

[chevss454]

I love Jon Jones but I was disappointed when I read what he said. You can be sure BB has had a few minutes with him to explain how things work.

I don't think for 1 second that players or coaches or owners or front office staff or referees should be allowed to bet on NFL games in any way, shape or form.
For me it's simple. Insider knowledge shouldn't be allowed to be used by players. Insider knowledge is illegal and invites government intervention.
That's reason #1.

Reason #2 is that once the gen. public loses confidence that games are won fair and square on the field played by 2 teams doing their best to win, the gen. public will get angry & eventually lose interest knowing every outcome is potentially predetermined. What a sham! The excitement of game day would die. It would kill the fanaticism and excitement for the games. The NFL would lose all credibility bc of a rigged product. Owners/teams would lose billions of $$$ when fans stop caring. That can't be allowed to happen.

There's precedent for both year long suspensions and waning fan interest going back to Paul Hornung in 1963. The Golden Boy got caught in a betting scandal and was suspended for a year by Pete Rozelle. The Golden Boy became a joke overnight. Alex Karras was caught the same year and suffered the same fate. Rozelle knew that player betting would be an NFL death knell.

A few years ago, six decades after their suspensions, the NFL changed its position on gambling. After years of denying that it was part of the core NFL experience, the league is embracing sports betting as a revenue source. Once forbidden to buy ad time during the Super Bowl, Las Vegas is not only the home of the Raiders but also a future host of the Super Bowl. Gambling revenue is also referenced in the CBA, splitting revenue between teams and players. Money talks and the NFL owners were damn sure they wouldn’t miss out on a$3 billion windfall.
The owners' mistake was allowing sports betting in NFL stadiums. Money won out. Mistakes have been made in the name of revenue for the owners but none have been worse than inviting gambling interests into their home stadiums.

 

[Flagg the Wanderer]

I love Jon Jones but I was disappointed when I read what he said. You can be sure BB has had a few minutes with him to explain how things work.

I don't think for 1 second that players or coaches or owners or front office staff or referees should be allowed to bet on NFL games in any way, shape or form.
For me it's simple. Insider knowledge shouldn't be allowed to be used by players. Insider knowledge is illegal and invites government intervention.
That's reason #1.

Reason #2 is that once the gen. public loses confidence that games are won fair and square on the field played by 2 teams doing their best to win, the gen. public will get angry & eventually lose interest knowing every outcome is potentially predetermined. What a sham! The excitement of game day would die. It would kill the fanaticism and excitement for the games. The NFL would lose all credibility bc of a rigged product. Owners/teams would lose billions of $$$ when fans stop caring. That can't be allowed to happen.

There's precedent for both year long suspensions and waning fan interest going back to Paul Hornung in 1963. The Golden Boy got caught in a betting scandal and was suspended for a year by Pete Rozelle. The Golden Boy became a joke overnight. Alex Karras was caught the same year and suffered the same fate. Rozelle knew that player betting would be an NFL death knell.

A few years ago, six decades after their suspensions, the NFL changed its position on gambling. After years of denying that it was part of the core NFL experience, the league is embracing sports betting as a revenue source. Once forbidden to buy ad time during the Super Bowl, Las Vegas is not only the home of the Raiders but also a future host of the Super Bowl. Gambling revenue is also referenced in the CBA, splitting revenue between teams and players. Money talks and the NFL owners were damn sure they wouldn’t miss out on a$3 billion windfall.
The owners' mistake was allowing sports betting in NFL stadiums. Money won out. Mistakes have been made in the name of revenue for the owners but none have been worse than inviting gambling interests into their home stadiums.

Great response. I agree it shouldn't be allowed. And I agree he shouldn't have said it.
BUT
If you're going to allow it, I fail to see how players (only) betting on themselves causes any problems. Insider trading is barred from investments for a variety of reasons, but mostly because it creates adverse incentives. There is no adverse incentive created, no specter of games being fixed or players not giving their all, when players bet money line on their own team to win a specific game. Insider trading laws don't apply to rank and file workers, but to management.
Coaches, trainers, refs, owners - all should be banned from betting on ANY sport, honestly. But I can see the argument for a carve out specific to PLAYERS making a MONEY LINE bet on THEIR OWN TEAM to WIN. I think the worst you can say about that is that you could potentially have sharks tracking the relative level of player bets from one game to another as an indicator.

It's not a hill I'm going to die on (because again, I'm against anyone involved betting at all) but that's a line where there's not a slippery slope attached, and I don't see significant potential for abuse.

 

[rivshark86]

The biggest problem will be if the influx of money from gambling does not reach the players. Even the lowliest player has to be so scared of losing his nfl salary that no gambling payoff will be worth it. Even then though guys will be passing on information and all kinds of stuff.
I mean right now why wouldn’t a kicker who’s about to be bounced out of the league tell everyone to bet the under on his field goals and miss every one in week 17?
Same goes for any player on the edge.
The NFL needs to come down hard on this. Not just the players, but the medical staff, and whole organization.
The current policies are not harsh enough. Unfortunately for a significant minority of gamblers it’s a major addiction that people will throw away everything for.
Like a pill head will steal from a neighbor, a player gambler will blow a play. These days with prop bets so readily available it doesn’t have to affect the outcome of the game.
These are young men in early 20s. Even if the acknowledge logic they often do not let it influence decisions. The punishment must be much worse than the crime for adequate deterrence.

 

[BradyGirl]

No one who works for the NFL should bet on football games, just like baseball players shouldn't bet on baseball, and so on.

There are instances where it won't affect games but then you have to be on top of this and that, ruling this is okay, this isn't. Just easier for an across-the-board ban.

Does the NFL really think some player or coach won't be a gambling addict? Getting cozy with betting just makes it easier for those who can't help themselves.

 

[3 Point Stan]

Great response. I agree it shouldn't be allowed. And I agree he shouldn't have said it.
BUT
If you're going to allow it, I fail to see how players (only) betting on themselves causes any problems. Insider trading is barred from investments for a variety of reasons, but mostly because it creates adverse incentives. There is no adverse incentive created, no specter of games being fixed or players not giving their all, when players bet money line on their own team to win a specific game. Insider trading laws don't apply to rank and file workers, but to management.
Coaches, trainers, refs, owners - all should be banned from betting on ANY sport, honestly. But I can see the argument for a carve out specific to PLAYERS making a MONEY LINE bet on THEIR OWN TEAM to WIN. I think the worst you can say about that is that you could potentially have sharks tracking the relative level of player bets from one game to another as an indicator.

It's not a hill I'm going to die on (because again, I'm against anyone involved betting at all) but that's a line where there's not a slippery slope attached, and I don't see significant potential for abuse.

There are ways this could be exploited as it doesn't have to just be about gambling, directly. It could come down to whether or not an unscrupulous individual (of which we know the NFL has plenty) would ever be willing to go on the take in order to impact the outcome of an NFL game. For example, a player makes a measly $500 bet for his team to win, but that player is a RB who fumbles the ball 3 times in the game and is paid $500K - $1 million by a bookie.

Allowing any player or NFL employee the opportunity to bet on NFL games only exposes potential risk. Too dangerous.

 

[Hawg73]

The NFL allowed itself to get in bed with the DraftKings, etc., of the world in order to make more money, just the same
way they allow players to risk their health in order to make money.

It shouldn't be a mystery that the League bans players from betting since that would cost them a new revenue
source, at least, and while J. Jones is correct that it is hypocritical, nobody should be confused by any of it.

Roger and the fatcats are into making money and aren't worried about the hypocrisy inherent in their
newish venture. They will likely make moves to stop players from speaking out the way our guy did whether
what is said is right, wrong or indifferent, because Deflategate should have taught everybody that Roger can
do whatever he wants and the only thing he cares about is making bank.

I mean, good for Jones for poking the bear and all that, but it was a waste of his time.

 

[Flagg the Wanderer]

There are ways this could be exploited as it doesn't have to just be about gambling, directly. It could come down to whether or not an unscrupulous individual (of which we know the NFL has plenty) would ever be willing to go on the take in order to impact the outcome of an NFL game. For example, a player makes a measly $500 bet for his team to win, but that player is a RB who fumbles the ball 3 times in the game and is paid $500K - $1 million by a bookie.

Allowing any player or NFL employee the opportunity to bet on NFL games only exposes potential risk. Too dangerous.

How is your scenario any different if the player doesn't make the bet? Paying off anyone is always a risk.

I mean, players playing fantasy football for stakes can impact the game, too.

 

[3 Point Stan]

How is your scenario any different if the player doesn't make the bet? Paying off anyone is always a risk.

I mean, players playing fantasy football for stakes can impact the game, too.

Because if betting is prohibited by the league, then this is a player who went “rogue.”

If betting is allowed by the league, then it becomes a conspiracy ABOUT the league itself.

 

[Patriots-Lifer]

There are ways this could be exploited as it doesn't have to just be about gambling, directly. It could come down to whether or not an unscrupulous individual (of which we know the NFL has plenty) would ever be willing to go on the take in order to impact the outcome of an NFL game. For example, a player makes a measly $500 bet for his team to win, but that player is a RB who fumbles the ball 3 times in the game and is paid $500K - $1 million by a bookie.

Allowing any player or NFL employee the opportunity to bet on NFL games only exposes potential risk. Too dangerous.

You have said it quite well. The NFL had to have know the problem they would create by allowing sports books into the stadiums. But as is the norm under Goodell it's all about them making money.

 

[Patriots-Lifer]

How is your scenario any different if the player doesn't make the bet? Paying off anyone is always a risk.

I mean, players playing fantasy football for stakes can impact the game, too.

That is why none of that should be permitted by players, coaches, or officials

 

[aloyouis]

I love Jon Jones but I was disappointed when I read what he said. You can be sure BB has had a few minutes with him to explain how things work.

I don't think for 1 second that players or coaches or owners or front office staff or referees should be allowed to bet on NFL games in any way, shape or form.
For me it's simple. Insider knowledge shouldn't be allowed to be used by players. Insider knowledge is illegal and invites government intervention.
That's reason #1.

Reason #2 is that once the gen. public loses confidence that games are won fair and square on the field played by 2 teams doing their best to win, the gen. public will get angry & eventually lose interest knowing every outcome is potentially predetermined. What a sham! The excitement of game day would die. It would kill the fanaticism and excitement for the games. The NFL would lose all credibility bc of a rigged product. Owners/teams would lose billions of $$$ when fans stop caring. That can't be allowed to happen.

There's precedent for both year long suspensions and waning fan interest going back to Paul Hornung in 1963. The Golden Boy got caught in a betting scandal and was suspended for a year by Pete Rozelle. The Golden Boy became a joke overnight. Alex Karras was caught the same year and suffered the same fate. Rozelle knew that player betting would be an NFL death knell.

A few years ago, six decades after their suspensions, the NFL changed its position on gambling. After years of denying that it was part of the core NFL experience, the league is embracing sports betting as a revenue source. Once forbidden to buy ad time during the Super Bowl, Las Vegas is not only the home of the Raiders but also a future host of the Super Bowl. Gambling revenue is also referenced in the CBA, splitting revenue between teams and players. Money talks and the NFL owners were damn sure they wouldn’t miss out on a$3 billion windfall.
The owners' mistake was allowing sports betting in NFL stadiums. Money won out. Mistakes have been made in the name of revenue for the owners but none have been worse than inviting gambling interests into their home stadiums.

Cogent.