No Mega Playmakers on D....True? Flaw?

[PatrietteAz]

Merriweather would have been in Miami one week before the SB but he won't be able to participate when named because he will still be playing. (What kind of tense is that grammar people?

 

[midgar8784]

Dude, I wrote that I did not know if this is team has big time playmakers or the ability to rise up when it needs to. Last year's team did not really have that. The continual problems on third down were a testimony to not having that.

As to this year, I'm just asking the question.

No agenda.

I want to know if people think we have some real big time playmakers.

Some apparently do think that. And I hope they are right.

Do you think the 2007 team had that? I think i would take this defense over the 2004 defense to be honest. I dont think we ever had real big playmakers. That was always the cry of the team that they didnt have any stars.

 

[DarrylStingley]

Do you think the 2007 team had that? I think i would take this defense over the 2004 defense to be honest. I dont think we ever had real big playmakers. That was always the cry of the team that they didnt have any stars.

I think we had more in 03 and 04 than in 07 or now.

Dickie Seymour, Ty Law and Rodney were all playmakers.

Guys that came through in big spots.

Vrabes and Bruschi were that, too.

I see this team as having fewer guys who can be counted on to do that and, instead, just very solid all around.

I might be WRONG.

 

[Oswlek]

Do you think the 2007 team had that? I think i would take this defense over the 2004 defense to be honest. I dont think we ever had real big playmakers. That was always the cry of the team that they didnt have any stars.

You had better hope Rodney Harrison doesn't read this board.

If this defense is as good as the 2004 I will be perfectly happy with that. That team as bad ass. And on that team Harrison, Bruschi, Seymour, Vrable and Willie Mac were all big time playmakers. Hell Wilson was awesome that year as well. Just because the CB position went to hell doesn't discount how good the rest of the team was.

 

[midgar8784]

You had better hope Rodney Harrison doesn't read this board.

If this defense is as good as the 2004 I will be perfectly happy with that. That team as bad ass. And on that team Harrison, Bruschi, Seymour, Vrable and Willie Mac were all big time playmakers. Hell Wilson was awesome that year as well. Just because the CB position went to hell doesn't discount how good the rest of the team was.

They were 15th in passing D that year, they made Feeley look like Joe Montana, lets not pretend it was this shut down killer defense, it wasn't. All year pats fans griped about the defense that year, but we had a killer run game and that made things a lot better, without the run game eating clock, the defense might have been exposed more than they were.

 

[Oswlek]

They were 15th in passing D that year, they made Feeley look like Joe Montana, lets not pretend it was this shut down killer defense, it wasn't. All year pats fans griped about the defense that year, but we had a killer run game and that made things a lot better, without the run game eating clock, the defense might have been exposed more than they were.

And the year before, in the best of the run, they blew a 31-10 lead against Indy in about 5 minutes.

And Pitt last year allowed 34 points to TN, who wasn't exactly an offensive powerhouse.

And NY allowed 34 points last year to Cleveland, of all teams, who didn't score an offensive touchdown over the final 4 weeks of the season.

And the 94 49ers lost to the 7-9 Ealges 40-7.

Teams have bad days. How'd they do against NYJ the game after? Or the playoff games?

 

[midgar8784]

And the year before, in the best of the run, they blew a 31-10 lead against Indy in about 5 minutes.

And Pitt last year allowed 34 points to TN, who wasn't exactly an offensive powerhouse.

And NY allowed 34 points last year to Cleveland, of all teams, who didn't score an offensive touchdown over the final 4 weeks of the season.

And the 94 49ers lost to the 7-9 Ealges 40-7.

Teams have bad days. How'd they do against NYJ the game after? Or the playoff games?

well I understand that, but 15th in pass defense means they had more than just 1 bad day, injuries took a toll that year and without the time being eat up by the offense that year with the run game, it would have been worse. I thought the defense in 2006 was better up until the afc title game.

 

[DarrylStingley]

well I understand that, but 15th in pass defense means they had more than just 1 bad day, injuries took a toll that year and without the time being eat up by the offense that year with the run game, it would have been worse. I thought the defense in 2006 was better up until the afc title game.

Some Ds that don't have good numbers in pass D (or run D) are still great Ds because they bend but don't break and generally don't give up a lot of points.

The metrics you are using ignore that distinction.

 

[midgar8784]

Some Ds that don't have good numbers in pass D (or run D) are still great Ds because they bend but don't break and generally don't give up a lot of points.

The metrics you are using ignore that distinction.

Well I was not using a metric, I was talking about the fact that it was not hard to pass on the pats that year. also having an offense that keeps the other teams offense off the field takes down points given up as well, which I guess was my point. Thats why quick strike offenses usually give up more points than running teams.

 

[Oswlek]

well I understand that, but 15th in pass defense means they had more than just 1 bad day, injuries took a toll that year and without the time being eat up by the offense that year with the run game, it would have been worse. I thought the defense in 2006 was better up until the afc title game.

NE's pass defense stats from 2004:

7th in passer rating
7th in TD passes allowed
7th in ints
3rd in sacks

15th in yards allowed per game
14th in ypa

They let up yards, but not a lot of scores, and made tons of big plays. I call that solid defense.

And the 2006 team, despite setting a franchise low for points, was not as good as 2004, for the opposite reason. They didn't make many game changing plays.

 

[DarrylStingley]

NE's pass defense stats from 2004:

7th in passer rating
7th in TD passes allowed
7th in ints
3rd in sacks

15th in yards allowed per game
14th in ypa

The let up yards, but not a lot of scores, and made tons of big plays. I can that solid defense.

Again, Oswlek is making me points. Only better than me.

The 2004 defense was really good and had some real playmakers on it.

My question was and remains: Does the 09 team have playmakers on it, too?

 

[midgar8784]

NE's pass defense stats from 2004:

7th in passer rating
7th in TD passes allowed
7th in ints
3rd in sacks

15th in yards allowed per game
14th in ypa

The let up yards, but not a lot of scores, and made tons of big plays. I call that solid defense.

And the 2006 team, despite setting a franchise low for points, was not as good as 2004, for the opposite reason. They didn't make many game changing plays.

Like I said, the offense keeping the other team off the field is also a good way of keeping the scores down. 2004 was a good indicator of that in the playoff game agaisnt indy.

 

[Tchok13]

Obviously defense is more than just numbers but a simple chart:
Year__S__F__I
2008 31 13 14
2007 47 20 19
2006 44 24 22
2005 33 13 10
2004 45 31 20
2003 41 29 29
2002 34 21 18
2001 41 23 22
the last two columns fumbles and Interceptions is where the story is told.
Last year? 27 drive killing plays.
2001? 45
2003 58
2004 51

Its a fairly simple metric

 

[midgar8784]

Again, Oswlek is making me points. Only better than me.

The 2004 defense was really good and had some real playmakers on it.

My question was and remains: Does the 09 team have playmakers on it, too?

I see just as many on the 09 team. Name the playmakers on the 2004 team.

 

[Wandering Athol]

Bonafide Playmakers on Pats:
Meriweather (household name this year)
Mayo (Year 2 breakthrough)
Thomas (was well on his way before injury in '08)
Seymour (playing for a new contract)

Guys I'm hoping step up:
Burgess (return to greatness?)
TBC (used in role emphasizing his strengths)
Bodden (has done it before in this league)

IMO, anything you get from the rookies is gravy.

 

[Oswlek]

Like I said, the offense keeping the other team off the field is also a good way of keeping the scores down. 2004 was a good indicator of that in the playoff game agaisnt indy.

In the first half, NE did not move the ball and still held Indy to 3 points. And they only got those 3 points because Wilson dropped an easy int in the end zone. Against Pitt the defense was on the field for most of the first half because the offense scored so quickly off the turnovers and they still held Pitt to 3 points.

You give too much credit to the offense. This defense was good.

 

[midgar8784]

Obviously defense is more than just numbers but a simple chart:
Year__S__F__I
2008 31 13 14
2007 47 20 19
2006 44 24 22
2005 33 13 10
2004 45 31 20
2003 41 29 29
2002 34 21 18
2001 41 23 22
the last two columns fumbles and Interceptions is where the story is told.
Last year? 27 drive killing plays.
2001? 45
2003 58
2004 51

Its a fairly simple metric

Injuries played a huge part in last year.

 

[midgar8784]

In the first half, NE did not move the ball and still held Indy to 3 points. And they only got those 3 points because Wilson dropped an easy int in the end zone. Against Pitt the defense was on the field for most of the first half because the offense scored so quickly off the turnovers and they still held Pitt to 3 points.

You give too much credit to the offense. This defense was good.

As long as we ignore the second half of the games you talked about then ok.

 

[king of kings]

Are Biggest playmakers on defense are Vince Wilfork, Merriweather, Thomas and Mayo. The defense is going to just fine this year. We upgraded on Defense at basically every position in the off season.

 

[Oswlek]

As long as we ignore the second half of the games you talked about then ok.

The first half is when the problems should be most pronounced, or at least most accurate. Of course Pitt is going to get tons of passing yardage in the second half, they were down by 3 scores! And even then NE didn't run well at all aside from Dillon's 25 yard TD run. He was a killer against Indy, but Indy didn't pass for shit in either half, so that enhances my point, not detracts.

Wanna try again?