OT - Mormon Scum!

[Costanza]

Yeah, that's pretty cool of them to do that.

I'll ask someone about the plates on Sunday.

 

[TrueBeliever]

Surprised no one has brought this up yet. I'll bet that when the average person thinks of Mormons, they still think of sickos like this guy.

This guy's "family" is really scary. I would even say it is a cult. They showed video clips of reporters just trying to talk to people there, to defend the man and all they got was shouts of "Go to hell!" and "You should hang for this!" Even the "police" there won't talk.

He reminds me a lot of David Koresh, except that they actually had some evidence on him.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060830/ap_on_re_us/polygamist_arrested

Captured polygamist to go to Utah first

By PAUL FOY, Associated Press Writer

SALT LAKE CITY - Polygamist leader Warren Jeffs will be prosecuted first in Utah, then in Arizona, on charges that he arranged marriages of underage girls to older men, authorities said Wednesday.

Arizona authorities filed charges first, but Utah prosecutors worked out an agreement to try Jeffs first because they have a stronger case and more serious charges, prosecutor Brook Belnap said.

The Utah charges include two counts of rape by accomplice accusing Jeffs of forcing a girl to marry an older man and submit to him sexually.

"We have the gravity of the charges here," Belnap said, adding that the decision came after a conference call among state and federal prosecutors in both states.

Jeffs, 50, is the leader of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, a group that broke away from the Mormon church a century ago when the Mormons disavowed polygamy. He is said to have at least 40 wives and nearly 60 children.

He was captured late Monday after a traffic stop north of Las Vegas. He had been on the run for more than a year and on the FBI's Ten Most Wanted list since May.

Jeffs was scheduled to appear Thursday at an extradition hearing in Nevada.

Jeffs will be held without bail in Utah. Arizona had set bail at $500,000 — another factor in the decision to send him to Utah, Belnap said.

People close to the sect said Jeffs' arrest would probably not change the influence he wields over 10,000 congregants who live mostly in Hildale and neighboring Colorado City, Ariz, on the Utah-Arizona state line.

"I think there's a structure in place that if Warren got caught they'll still carry out his word, and they'll figure out how to keep communicating with him," said Andrew Chatwin, a former church member who moved back to Hildale last year.

Jeffs was caught by chance when a sport utility vehicle in which he was riding was pulled over for having a temporary Colorado license tag that was hard to read.

 

[Costanza]

The thing that really pisses me off about this guy is all the money and flashy stuff he had at the time of his arrest. Mormons are strict tithers. It is adament in the Bible that you do it so, well, we do it. Here's what their money went to:

$54,000 in cash
24 pair designer sunglasses
a brand spankin new Escalade
$10,000 in gift cards

And that is just the stuff that he had at the time. Who know what this guy has at his house/homes.

Maybe they are ok that he has this stuff because it is "helping him in his time of need" being on the FBI most wanted list and all, but from here it looks like he just blows ther money. Does he really need an Escalade? These poor people think they are being led into happiness and the highest kingdom of Heaven, when really they are being led astray.

I hope this helps those people find their way back into the real world. I smell Waco all over this. David Koresh indeed.

 

[Alcoholic9*]

He'll be in court tomorrow morning for his extradition hearing. I'll find it amusingly ironic if he tries to fight it. A self proclaimed prophet and man of God, fighting to stay in Sin City.

 

[Alcoholic9*]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/08/31/jeffs.arrest.ap/index.html

I guess he doesn't like the hospitality of our fine city.

 

[Costanza]

So, Mitt Romney is a Mormon? I didn't know that. I can't think of any of my witty, super hillarious things to say so I guess that's all. Unless someone wants to add something.

 

[The*Big*Lebowski]

I'd like to add that there are some really hot mormon chicks out there.

 

[Costanza]

I'd like to add that there are some really hot mormon chicks out there.

Wow, that totally helps!


What do you guys think of him? Was he a good leader? I won't get offended.

It would be hard for me to be a politician. I would want to do my best to help lead this country to the best path possible, but there are so many tough topics out there.

The point of being voted in by your peers is so that you can do what they want you to do. Lincoln didn't care about freeing the slaves, but he did it because he knew his countrymen wanted it. This country wants gay marriage, so as a politician, you should try to give that to them. But as a Bible follower, you'd incline not to do that. But they are going to do whatever they want with their own free will, so why not let them have it? Everyone deserves to be happy. Plus, I think it sucks that a person can't have any benefits or legal rights just because they're gay. We are all Americans and deserve our unalienable rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

I was going over some church stuff last night, and the official stance with my church is that they have no stance. Same thing with abortions. We are only for it if it is incest or rape or if there are health complications for the mother, but the church doesn't sway the members who are politicians to vote a certain way or not. I think that's pretty cool. It all goes back to "free agency" and having the right to do what you want with your life. We chose to follow Jesus Christ's path before we came to Earth, to have the power of free will and give the glory to God, as opposed to Satan's who wanted us all to be perfect but give the glory to him. That's what we believe anyway.

I've read some things on Romney and it seems that some of his views have flip flopped. At first he was into legalizing abortions (as a family member died from having an illegal one) and gay marriage (it is only fair he said- which I agree) to those of very conservative George W's. I think he may be torn by the thoughts I have on the matter. You have to do what you feel is right, but at the same time you have to do what your constituents want.

So, what do you think of him? Not from a religious point of view, but from his leadership? I'm not going to vote for the man just because he is a Mormon. I need to know he has his act together for me to do that. And since you guys know him, I'm asking you.

 

[bideau]

Jh, I'm a little reluctant to answer your questions in detail only because I'd hate to see a classic thread ruined by a political debate. But I'll give you MHO and if this turns into a typical political "he said, she said" discussion, I can move this piece of the thread to the politics forum.

Romney was elected as a moderate republican. You're correct about his platform on abortion. On gay marriage, he never supported it but did support civil unions. His views started to change when he started putting out feelers for a run at the White House. It seems that he needs to appeal to the evangelical christians, particularly in the south. He no longer supports choice or civil unions. So yes, some of his positions have changed since he was elected governor.

I've always felt that he spent more time setting up his presidential amibtions than he did governing the state. But that's just MHO.

I don't ever recall his faith being an issue pro or con. I don't recall him ever invoking mormon doctrine. I really don't think people gave that aspect of him much thought.

 

[Costanza]

Thanks for responding. Flip flopping is never good. I wonder how far he will go in his bid. He's got McCain and Guiliani to contend with, so I don't see it happening anyway.

Back to the original thread-

I love Mormons! They aren't scum!

 

[mgoblue101415]

Okay... I have a question in regards to Mormonism.

Was watching a thing on Dateline ( I think ) and they were interviewing polygamists, which I do realize are not part of the actual Mormon church and are actually condemned by the the LDS. I am not in anyway saying the two are the same thing.

But a couple things they said... I was wondering if it was just the polygamists' sects that believe it, or if it's the Mormon religion as a whole.

Do the LDS believe that Christ was married and actually had children?

And do the LDS believe that the blacks are a cursed race?


I know the basis of the Mormon religion and a bit about it, but I had never heard either of these things. So I was just wondering if it's just the off shoots that believe this.


Totally different religions, i.e. Christianity, Buddhism, Islam, are obviously going to have different views (although not all too different when you get down to the core). What I really find interesting, is that within Christianity there are at least twenty different churches. It is just interesting, at least to me, that so many people who believe the same thing, believe it so differently.

I'm kind of a religious study buff. Yeah, I know... I have weird past times. But I just think it's good to know what others believe and try to understand it. You don't have to believe or embrace it to understand it. I think if more people realized that, quite a few problems in the world could start to be fixed.

Anyway.. Back to the questions, if anyone wants to answer them.

 

[Costanza]

There is no evidence in the Bible that Christ was or was not married. We don't go by speculation alone, so it's more like we don't have a stance on the matter. We don't know so we don't go there.

Here'some info on the race question. I cut and pasted this off of a Church website:

Was It Prejudice?
Even with a firm understanding of the Priesthood, a person is still left to wonder why Black African members would be denied the blessings of the Priesthood. Some people believe it to be an issue of racism or prejudice. This is not true. In fact, in the early days of the Church members were persecuted for not being prejudiced enough.

The saints were accused of being abolitionists and a threat to the status of the state of Missouri, then a slave state. Even from the 1900s to the 1940s, when there was a general segregation of Blacks from so-called white churches, there was no Church policy of racial segregation of blacks and whites in THE CHURCH of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints.
D. Charles Pyle, Encyclopedia of Mormonism

In those days the general public (general public, not LDS- Jh) was not concerned about the blacks receiving the Priesthood. Most of the white folk owned slaves and believed that Black Africans should not be allowed even the least of privileges. The truth be known, many believed that black people did not even possess souls. The prophet Joseph Smith spoke out on this matter.

...they came into the world slaves, mentally and physically. Change their situation with the whites, and they would be like them. They have souls, and are subjects of salvation.
History of the Church, Vol. 5, page 217


And in 1863 Brigham Young taught, For their abuse of [the Black African] race, the whites will be cursed, unless they repent.
Journal of Discourses, Vol.10, p.110


The Lord conferred portions of the Priesthood upon certain races (not just the the white folks- Jh) of men, and through promises made to their fathers they were entitled to the rights, and blessings, and privileges of that Priesthood. Other races (not just the black folks- Jh), in consequence of their corruptions, their murders, their wickedness, or the wickedness of their fathers, had the Priesthood taken from them, and the curse that was upon them was decreed should descend upon their posterity after them, it was decreed that they should not bear rule.
Journal of Discourses 3:29

Glorious Revelation
Then, in June of 1978, after spending much time in prayer, President Spencer W. Kimball received a revelation from the Lord which announced that all worthy male members of the Church could receive the Priesthood.

I was present when the Lord revealed to President Spencer W. Kimball that the time had come, in His eternal providences, to offer the fulness of the gospel and the blessings of the holy priesthood to all men.
Bruce R. McConkie
--------------------------------------



Now that being said, it is all over the Bible that future generations will be cursed for the actions of their fathers. It's not a race issue, but an issue of who the person who turned away from the Lord's words in the first place. Of course if you don't beleive in Chirst in the first place, none of the Mormon stuff can make sense.

This is not a racial issue but an ancestrial issue- which is not strictly a Mormon issue.

 

[bideau]

This PBS show looks like it might be worth watching:

A gripping look at foundations of Mormon faith:

By Sam Allis, Globe Staff | April 27, 2007

Imagine a four-hour documentary on the Mormon church that skips its most prominent member in the country today, Mitt Romney.

"The Mormons," a collaboration between PBS powerhouse series " Frontline " and " American Experience, " is that show. Yet its mere airing may finally force the former governor to explain publicly his faith and its influence on him as a politician, much as John Kennedy did with his Catholicism in 1960. What it will surely do is complicate his run for the White House.

The Romney candidacy notwithstanding, it's high time that Americans separate fact from fiction about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as it is officially called. The timing is excellent for veteran documentarian Helen Whitney, whose fascinating look at the Mormons airs Monday and Tuesday on WGBH.

Many church members will chafe at Whitney's spotlight, while countless non-Mormons will be shocked by church history and practices. They will be put off by its secrecy and authoritarian structure. By the absence of black men as full members until 1978. By its early embrace of polygamy.

They will find risible the notion that the Garden of Eden was located in what is now Jackson County, Mo., or that ancient Israelites came to America more than 2 , 000 years ago. The early Christian church looked loony to a lot of people, too, yet it has had 2,000 years to polish its myths. The Mormon church is less than 180 years old.

Still, the Mormons have spooked America since the church's creation. Joseph Smith was called a fraud when he founded the church in 1830, and despite its best efforts to inject itself into the American cultural mainstream, the church is still viewed with suspicion in some quarters. Polls show that a substantial number of Americans would not vote for a Mormon for president. Catholic and Protestant denominations alike have challenged the inclusion of the church in historic Christianity.

Are the Mormons victims of home-grown bigotry? That is certainly at play. And, notes Yale professor Harold Bloom, America's Yoda on all things spiritual, "All religion depends on revelation. All revelation is supernatural. If you wish to be a rock hard empiricist, then you should not entertain any religious doctrine whatsoever."

"The Mormons" brims with informed talking heads -- church historians, journalists, church elders, and a constellation of happy Mormons. It would have helped to identify Mormon from non-Mormon but never mind. Romney appears briefly in a film clip but is never heard from; according to PBS, he declined to participate.

The story is not particularly a visual one. There are re - creations of seminal events and a full array of paintings and still photography, but this story needs little help. It is strange and compelling all by itself.

The first episode pursues a linear path beginning with the early life of Smith and follows his visions, including one he received of the Angel Moroni, who directed him to the golden tablets of the Book of Mormon buried near his home in Palmyra, N.Y. Smith then travels amid steady persecution to Ohio, Missouri, and finally Illinois. He created his own theocracy in Nauvoo, and was later killed in Carthage by a mob incensed, among other things, over allegations that Smith practiced polygamy.

Brigham Young then led the faithful in a brutal trip to what is now Salt Lake City. By then, the Mormons had built two themes elemental to religious and social movements -- persecution and exodus. While Mormons denied courting persecution, they kept running into it at alarming rates. And like Moses leading his flock to the Promised Land or Mao Zedong's Long March, Young's exodus cemented imagery crucial to the church's foundations.

We see both the bleakness of the Salt Lake area and the beauty of Mountain Meadows, where in 1857 Mormons participated in the massacre of 120 men, women, and children from Arkansas traveling west in wagons. This outrage was compounded by an appalling coverup. The event has plagued the church's image ever since.

The second episode brings the story to the present. The Mormons labored through the 20th century to repair their image. They created a huge, strict missionary effort to troll the world for converts, and have emphasized the role of Jesus Christ in their church. Their on-the-ground aid after Hurricane Katrina was remarkable.

Yet we also hear from a Mormon feminist excommunicated for challenging the submissive role of women in the church social order -- the church was instrumental in the defeat of the Equal Rights Amendment -- and a gay Mormon who was forced to leave the church.

The Mormons today are, in many ways, a success story. Their church is, per capita, the richest in America. It is politically powerful. Its Mormon Tabernacle Choir sings at presidential inaugurations.

And yet, even after four hours of "The Mormons," it's hard to digest the institution. While all organized religions have attributes that sound daft to some and offensive to others, the Mormons, for whatever reason, seem to have more than their share. You be the judge.

 

[TommyD420]

This PBS show looks like it might be worth watching:

A gripping look at foundations of Mormon faith:

I happened to see both parts of the documentary.
Turns out Jh and Mobeius were right


at:

 

[chef]

I now hate ****en mormons.
Izzzy Folau is a ****en monster in the NRL (rugby), he is 18, first year and has set a club record for most tries in a season (and the season ain't even over).
and now he is about to leave the ****en Melbourne storm (the greatest team of all) to do mormon shit..

 

[Costanza]

I now hate ****en mormons.
Izzzy Folau is a ****en monster in the NRL (rugby), he is 18, first year and has set a club record for most tries in a season (and the season ain't even over).
and now he is about to leave the ****en Melbourne storm (the greatest team of all) to do mormon shit..

I forgive you my brother.:arrr:

 

[Costanza]

I happened to see both parts of the documentary.
Turns out Jh and Mobeius were right


at:

I didn't bother to watch that because when it comes to the "experts" of opposition they really don't have a clue. It's one thing if you have your facts straight, but at the same time ask us about it and you shall be enlightened, lol. I asked a billion questions when I first was learning about the church. I wanted to know everthing I could before I committed to it.

I know that there was a documentary about the church (and it may be the one above) and all they talked about were the people who were ex-Mormons and interviewed them. Nothing about what really goes on in the church.

Ex-members of any religion are always going to hate. The only bad things I've ever heard about the Catholic church are from several Planet members who are Catholics, so it's not just the ex-Mormons who are (for the lack of a better word) sour.

Please Chef, show the same respect for everyone's different beliefs as everyone else in this humongous thread has.

And TommyD, what were we right about?!

 

[Undertaker #59*]

One thing I am curious about that I was never sure if I should bring up is I have heard something about Mormons and some sort of "magic underwear."

Could one of you enlighten me on if there is some sort of special underwear or if I heard something wrong?

 

[Costanza]

One thing I am curious about that I was never sure if I should bring up is I have heard something about Mormons and some sort of "magic underwear."

Could one of you enlighten me on if there is some sort of special underwear or if I heard something wrong?

They are called temple garments. Just like in Biblical times, we go to the temple to do sacred works. These are garments that we wear under our clothes that have been blessed.

They are basically undershirts and undershorts. They are very light and whimsical (I just like that word, ok?). They are a reminder to stay modest and clean, kinda like a barrier to the outside things that tempt you everyday.

I haven't been to the temple yet, so I don't have any. I was just baptized about the time I became a Planet member, so I am working my way there. One thing's for sure, all the f-this's and f-that's that I go off about on here aren't helping my feeling of spiritual peace! I gotta work on that, I know I am better than sputtering off like an old model T. Not that I'll get denied because of having emotions and not being perfect. The church and it's leaders are all aware that no one can acheive such greatness here on earth. The leaders themselves are regular people with regular jobs. It's not as the Catholic church where if you are a priest it's your job. The Bishop of my church works at a bank. So they all understand everyday life, conflicts with the kids and spouse and people getting on your nerves and all that. We just try to handle it as best as we can, instead of going to a bar and getting plowed, for instance.

 

[TommyD420]

I didn't bother to watch that because when it comes to the "experts" of opposition they really don't have a clue. It's one thing if you have your facts straight, but at the same time ask us about it and you shall be enlightened, lol. I asked a billion questions when I first was learning about the church. I wanted to know everthing I could before I committed to it.

I know that there was a documentary about the church (and it may be the one above) and all they talked about were the people who were ex-Mormons and interviewed them. Nothing about what really goes on in the church.

Ex-members of any religion are always going to hate. The only bad things I've ever heard about the Catholic church are from several Planet members who are Catholics, so it's not just the ex-Mormons who are (for the lack of a better word) sour.

Please Chef, show the same respect for everyone's different beliefs as everyone else in this humongous thread has.

And TommyD, what were we right about?!

There was a PBS documentary a few months back, a two-parter, and pretty much it was the entire history of Mormonism from pillar to post. Nothing negative nor positive, just historical.

And I remember earlier on in the thread there were a couple times it was "I dunno, but I think..." and everything you guys "thought" was right on every time.

I'll also say, if it weren't for this thread, I would never have watched the documentary. I had a Philosophy Minor in College, and studied a lot about different religions; Mormanism wasn't one of them. And now, between this thread and the documentary, I think I have a pretty good idea about it, and if nothing else, a better understanding. I just have to thank you and Mobieus again for all your collective patience, tact, and knowledge in regards to this entire thing. And, of course, to the majority of non-Mormons who posted on here as well.

For a bunch of Gangstas, we sure did have a pretty civil religious discussion.

Patriothuggaruggas 4 Life.

atriots!