Season Ticket Transfer Policy

[bideau]

Here's an eye opening article for current season ticket holders from the Boston Globe :

Pass interference
The Patriots' prohibition on the transfer of season tickets has some fans crying foul as they lose access to seats
By Bruce Mohl, Globe Staff | October 3, 2004

Like thousands of other hopeful New England football fans, John T. Maguire bought a pair of Patriots season tickets in 1994, the same year Robert Kraft bought the team.

The tickets weren't the best, way up in the upper level on a goal line. But Maguire didn't mind. The tickets were a gift to his family. He sent his sons and sons-in-law to the games while he watched on television from his home.

When Maguire passed away two years ago, the family tradition continued. The tickets were paid for by Maguire's sons and delivered to his Peabody home, which was occupied by one of his sons. But when that son was diagnosed with cancer last year and had to move, he asked the Patriots about having the tickets transferred to him at a new address.

The news that the ticket owner of record had died triggered a relatively new club policy prohibiting season ticket transfers. Despite several emotional appeals from the family, including one directly to Kraft, the Patriots revoked John Maguire's season tickets prior to the opening game against the Indianapolis Colts.

''It felt like a slap in the face," said Tom Maguire, the 33-year-old son who is now undergoing chemotherapy and feels the Patriots policy unfairly penalizes season ticket holders who suffer untimely tragedies.

The Patriots no-transfer policy hasn't received as much attention as other team decisions to revoke the season tickets of fans who act up in the stands or sell their tickets on eBay . But the policy is clearly on the minds of many in Patriots Nation, and it is likely to generate more and more controversy as season ticket holders get older and pass away.

For many fans, Sundays in Foxborough are far more than just sporting events. Steve Ebeling of Framingham, for example, used to go to Patriots games with his father, who bought season tickets in 1961. When his dad died, the Patriots didn't have a no-transfer policy, so Ebeling was able to take over his father's season ticket account. He then started sharing the tickets with his girlfriend, who became his wife. Now he takes his 14-year-old son to games.

''It's come full circle, and it's a great way to spend a Sunday together, especially nowadays when it's hard to find time otherwise," Ebeling said. ''I would hate to think my son won't be able to pass these great seats to his kids, if he wishes."

Ticket transfer policies vary from club to club. Here in Boston, for example, the struggling Bruins and Celtics allow their season-ticket holders to transfer their tickets to others, while the Red Sox, who have fans begging for tickets, do not.

But fan popularity isn't always the deciding factor. Many National Football League teams with long waiting lists for season tickets allow transfers.

The New York Giants, the Washington Redskins, and the Tampa Bay Buccaneers allow transfers to immediate family members, while the New York Jets and the Green Bay Packers allow transfers to anyone.

The Patriots started prohibiting season ticket transfers when they moved into Gillette Stadium in 2002. The motivation was partly financial and partly ethical.

Patriots officials say allowing ticket transfers would be unfair to the thousands of fans currently waiting for tickets. With two Super Bowl victories in three years and 17 wins in a row going into today's game against the Buffalo Bills, ticket turnover for Patriots games is minuscule, and would be even less if existing season-ticket holders were allowed to transfer their tickets to others.

A team spokesman wouldn't say how many people are on the Patriots waiting list, but he said those fans are waiting for more than 50,000 tickets. Fans on the waiting list pay a one-time refundable fee of $75 per ticket.

Richard A. Karelitz, the Patriots general counsel, focused on the fairness issue in a letter to Tom Maguire explaining why Maguire could not acquire his father's season tickets. ''If we were to make exceptions, no matter how sympathetic we might be, as in cases such as yours, we would be unfair to others," Karelitz wrote.

Wayne Thomas of Jamaica Plain, who has been on the Patriots waiting list for several years, said the team's no-transfer policy makes sense. ''If a season ticket holder wants to give their child season tickets, put her or him on the waiting list at birth," Thomas said.

The financial motivation behind the no-transfer policy arises from the way the Patriots financed the construction of Gillette Stadium. The team borrowed the money instead of raising it by selling permanent seat licenses, as 13 other NFL teams have done.

Seat licenses, which typically cost a one-time fee of several hundred to several thousands of dollars, entitle the owner to buy a specific set of season tickets each year. The licenses are an asset that can be sold or transferred to anyone.

Since the Patriots didn't go the seat license route (the up-front fee was considered too steep for many fans), team officials say they won't allow season-ticket transfers because that would be like giving away a seat license for free.

Asked if the team might some day sell its season-ticket holders a transfer right, Patriots spokesman Stacey James said: ''In a customer service industry you learn never to say never, but we don't have any plans at this time."

Despite the team's official no-transfer policy, club officials just recently tried to soften the blow for the Maguire family. The Patriots offered Tom Maguire the chance to purchase his dad's old seats for the remainder of this season, but only for this season. Maguire, who says he's now finding it hard to root for the team, said late last week he was wrestling with the offer.

Many teams, including the Philadelphia Eagles, the Cleveland Browns, the St. Louis Rams, and the Chicago Bears, offer their fans a choice on ticket transfers. The Bears, for example, moved into a renovated Soldier Field last year and gave fans the choice of purchasing a regular season ticket with no transfer rights or a season ticket linked to a seat license that could be transferred. The seat license fees ranged from $765 to $8,500.

Teams that allow their regular season ticket holders to transfer their tickets say it would be difficult to police a no-transfer policy. The teams also say their transfer policies haven't been unfair to people on their waiting lists.

The Jets, for example, allow their season-ticket holders to transfer their tickets to anyone they want. Yet Ron Colangelo, a team spokesman, said people on the waiting list are still getting tickets. He said 550 people off of the club's 10,000-person waiting list were able to buy season tickets this year. The Jets play at the Meadowlands, which seats 78,000 people.

Fans say the Patriots should allow transfers among relatives because it's one of the few activities that brings families together and fosters a family-friendly atmosphere the Patriots management supports. Carl Moore, 72, of Wrentham, who bought six Patriots season tickets 15 years ago as a Christmas present for himself and his children, said: ''If something happens to me, their present disappears. That's doesn't seem fair."

Drew McGrady of North Attleborough, who has also been a season ticket holder for the last 15 years, said the Patriots should be more concerned about being fair to longtime season-ticket holders than newcomers on the waiting list.

''We dumped thousands of dollars into this team when they were nothing," he said. ''All the bandwagon-hoppers can take a number."

 

[Undertaker #59*]

I can see both sides of this, but the big thing that sticks out to me if they allowed transferring is the black market. Can you imagine the prices that current season ticket holders might charge to someone who wants to "buy" those season tickets from them? Withhow long the waiting list is, current season ticket holders could make a fortune selling their seat license to someone else.

 

[kirjtc2]

I think the team should allow transfers, but only to family members. It eliminates the black-market problem, while not being heartless.

Overall, I really don't like the team's heavy-handed ticket policy. From getting season tickets revoked for the tiniest things, to the strict eBay policies, even to only accepting Visa, I think the Pats have gone overboard with stunts like this.

JPK

 

[Flagg the Wanderer]

Why all the fuss? Some people don't want to pay for the seat licence. Fine. Some want their tix to be transferrable. Fine.

Seems like a simple solution to me: offer the OPTION of purchasing a seat licence to every season ticket holder at the beginning of next season. It's a one time offer. Take it, and your tix are transferable. Don't, and they're not.

All new season ticket holders are given the same option when they get their tix. One time fee, one time decision.

 

[dropKickMurphy]

I can see both sides of this, but the big thing that sticks out to me if they allowed transferring is the black market. Can you imagine the prices that current season ticket holders might charge to someone who wants to "buy" those season tickets from them? Withhow long the waiting list is, current season ticket holders could make a fortune selling their seat license to someone else.

My understanding is that the owner of a PSL is free to transfer or sell it as he wishes. A PSL is marketed as an investment, something the purchaser owns, and he is free to sell it as he would be free to sell any other piece of property.

It seems to me that ever since the demand for Pats' tickets increased, the team has gone to great lengths to establish that season ticket holders have very limited rights to that season ticket.

Their policies do often appear to be heavy handed, but I can see their reasoning. For one, they have a much easier time keeping the crowd under control when everyone understands the consequences. If a season ticket holder decides to give away tickets to any games, he will most likely be very careful to select a person who won't end up costing him his season ticket.

I agree that the security can have an intimidating, gestapo-like feel to it. I have to admit, though, that it doesn't really affect my enjoyment of the game. I attended plenty of games in the 70s and 80s where the crowds would get very ugly...and dangerous. When you've invested the time and money that Kraft has to bring the Patriots to where they are now, the last thing you need is the potential for fans to be injured as a result of a drunken riot.

Another issue is that if the team made any exceptions to the transfer policy, it would probably open the door to a flood of lawsuits. You know how that would be. If they allow a father to pass the rights to the season ticket to his sons, someone would claim this was discriminatory to those without children. The way this country works, one lawsuit would lead to another; snowballing into a situation where the only way out would be for Kraft to allow anyone to transfer the season ticket rights to anyone else. Which would, in effect, be PSLs...without paying the PSL fee.

That would pretty much eliminate the option of the team ever offering PSLs for sale. Now, even though the team claims they are not considering PSLs, I wouldn't believe it. The idea of optional PSLs, as FlagWanderer suggested, might make sense. Any season ticket holder that chooses not to purchase one would not be affected in any way.

I can't imagine that the team has totally ruled out this potential source of income. The downside may be the fact that PSL sales have led to problems in some other cities, as the license purchasers have sued over the location of their seats. It doesn't take too many lawsuits to negate any additional revenue that the PSLs originally generate. That's one of the factors that steered Kraft away from the PSL idea when the stadium was constructed. I would not be surprised, however, if the team announced an expansion of the stadium within the next year or two. If this happens, I would be even less surprised to hear that some form of PSL would be used to fund the construction.

 

[Spinal Tap]

I think this guy sits next to me, at least he used to. I'm not sure, but there are a pair of seats right next to mine that were picked up by the family when the elder owner died, about 2 years ago. In fact, the 2 guys sitting next to me for the Indy game did not own the seats, but told me that they bought them from a ticket agency. I'll have to look into this further at the Dolphin game. Interesting article though. I too think that they are a bit rigid when it comes to season tickets. At the same time, they have a very long list of people that are waiting for tickets. Unfortunately, it may take a death in the family to free up those tickets for others who want to enjoy the 2 time world champion New England Patriots.

 

[PA_PATS_FAN54*]

I waited 5 years for my season tickets. Only to have to give them up 2 years later upon moving to PA. That being said ...... I do see both sides of this, but I don't see a problem with a long term season ticket holder being able to transfer ownership of those tickets to imediate family only. It keeps your loyalist fans happy and just makes more sense! IMO

 

[PatsFanDan]

I'm mixed on this as well. I have been on the waiting list now for going on 6 years. While I assume my number is coming sooner rather than later, I also realize the success of the team is extending my wait more and more every season. If a policy was implemented that allowed the transfer of season tickets to any 3rd party, my guess is I might never get my hands on my own seats.

On the other hand while I'm only 33 years old, I could foresee having these tickets for years and years and wanting to pass them down to my children when the time comes. But making the tickets transferrable to "family only" obviously creates another whole set of legal problems for the Pats.

The suggestion on having the option for the PSL is intriguing to me. I would very much be in favor of seeing the Pats consider that and possibly implement it.

You would hope that Mr. Kraft being a businessman, and a fan as well as a family man would be able to see the value in offering this option to Patriots fans.

And for the guy that made the statement about putting their kids on the waiting list...........what a tool. Every time the Pats win a SB the list and the wait get longer. And I've heard now that the wait for people signing up today could be as long as 12-15 years.

 

[Steve1]

I say VERY LOUDLY

1. NO seat licenses

2. Let the next poor sap on the season ticket waiting-list get his/her chance. They are a fan TODAY and would greatly appreciate the tickets.

3. On the surface, I DO have sympathy for family members whose father passed away, but the reason they had the tickets was because of Dad, and Dad is gone, materialy. It is time to give up Dad's tickets. He's gone. Let the next person in line, who has probably been in line for tickets for 5- 6 years, have their chance. The folks who had the tickets got to go to the games for what, 10-20 years+? What's that, 100-200 games?

Best of luck, again, to the poor saps on the waiting list (I was one of them, once, too).

 

[bideau]

I say VERY LOUDLY

1. NO seat licenses

2. Let the next poor sap on the season ticket waiting-list get his/her chance. They are a fan TODAY and would greatly appreciate the tickets.

3. On the surface, I DO have sympathy for family members whose father passed away, but the reason they had the tickets was because of Dad, and Dad is gone, materialy. It is time to give up Dad's tickets. He's gone. Let the next person in line, who has probably been in line for tickets for 5- 6 years, have their chance. The folks who had the tickets got to go to the games for what, 10-20 years+? What's that, 100-200 games?

Best of luck, again, to the poor saps on the waiting list (I was one of them, once, too).

I understand what you're saying Steve. But I know of several situations where the tickets are shared among several people. The two seats next to me are shared amongst many family members. They're like a family resource. In the course of a season, there are about ten different people who use those two seats. So when the official account holder passes away, there will be nine people who will no longer be able to attend. I have a neighbor who splits four tickets with a friend. So if something happens to his friend, he's out of luck.

I like the idea of OPTIONAL licenses. In my case, I wouldn't purchase one since I neither of my children would be interested in them. But at least I'd have the option.

 

[joephoto]

They're like a family resource. So when the official account holder passes away, there will be nine people who will no longer be able to attend.

Now families will be hiding the death of their father from Kraft since "Dad would have wanted the kids to still go".....And please don't think Kraft is doing it for the wanting list fans, this is just more tickets for Fred Smerlis/Glen Ordway tailgate tent customers (at about $500 a pop including game ticket). It stinks.

 

[PatsFanDan]

Now families will be hiding the death of their father from Kraft since "Dad would have wanted the kids to still go".....And please don't think Kraft is doing it for the wanting list fans, this is just more tickets for Fred Smerlis/Glen Ordway tailgate tent customers (at about $500 a pop including game ticket). It stinks.

Slightly off topic here but what I still don't understand is how all of these ticket agencies end up with so many tickets. I know some of the tickets available are the result of season ticket holders selling the agent their tickets but I would expect those are few and far between. With so many stories about the Patriots organization cracking down on people re-selling their tickets, I don't understand how these tickets continue to end up in the hands of ticket agents who mark them up by hundreds of dollars.

Do these ticket agents have hundreds of season tickets themselves and why are they not being policed the way Joe Fan is when he sells his tickets on Ebay? It seems bogus to me but maybe I am missing something here?

 

[Steve1]

I understand what you're saying Steve. But I know of several situations where the tickets are shared among several people. The two seats next to me are shared amongst many family members. They're like a family resource. In the course of a season, there are about ten different people who use those two seats. So when the official account holder passes away, there will be nine people who will no longer be able to attend. I have a neighbor who splits four tickets with a friend. So if something happens to his friend, he's out of luck.

I like the idea of OPTIONAL licenses. In my case, I wouldn't purchase one since I neither of my children would be interested in them. But at least I'd have the option.

Good points- and I'm sure those folks all have a pretty good time at the game. It does seem to me, the people who attend just about every game, well, they have more of a stake in the outcome, and they hip-holler-hooray and make more general good-natured mayhem and noise than those who come, say, twice, or three times a year. Many of those people seem to sit on their hands, and enjoy themselves in a quiet way- which does not help the team win. But, I am definitely generalizing here. And, once in a while, I'll see someone new and different in my section who really gets into it.

Something fair has to be done, though, I agree, to fix this problem, for the best of all effected. It's kind of like, how you can't sell your ticket legally (I guess), even if you just want to get your money back. The Pats should do what the Sox started doing last year....season ticket holders can sell their tickets online at Redsox.com to others, for facevalue, plus a bit more. Actually, some of the people sell them for less than face value.

I guess my point is, if enough people make a stink about it, it can change for the better.

 

[joephoto]

The Pats should do what the Sox started doing last year....season ticket holders can sell their tickets online at Redsox.com to others, for facevalue, plus a bit more. Actually, some of the people sell them for less than face value.

The Pats DO offer a chance to give back tix we can't use, many gave back pre-season tix. Kraft gives cheaper ones to ticketmaster to resell, the others they keep for "priority customers" or for that expensive WEEI tailgate tent business (my suspision).

There is a lot of business going on in the front office/ticket office of this team, and EVERY team in major cities throughout the world. It's reality, like death and taxes.

Last week I bought 4 extra "Standing Room" tix for Cinn and S.F. from someone for $75 a ticket. The guy got them from his friend in the ticket office at the face value of $39 each. Everyones got a side business down there.