Sizing Up the AFC Non-Divisional Opponents - 2011

mayoclinic

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This thread is for discussion of any issue regarding AFC teams other than the divisional opponents.

Here's a nice tidbit for starters:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...to-use-mario-williams-at-outside-linebacker/

For anyone who scoffed at my idea of using Cameron Jordan as a hybrid DE/OLB, the Texans apparently are seriously considering using the 6'6" 290# Williams at OLB. Williams and Connor Barwin would presumably play OLB with Brian Cushing at SILB and DeMeco Ryans at WILB. JJ Watt would play DE.

I never understood why Houston switched to a 3-4. Sure, Wade Phillips is a 3-4 guy. But it didn't fit their personnel. Mario Williams has the size to play 3-4 DE, but it's just not his style. He's a pass rusher. DeMeco Ryans is a MLB. That's two of their best defensive players, who are now playing out of position.

It will be interesting to see how the Williams at OLB experiment works out.
 
More on Mario Williams moving to OLB:

Mario is 6'7/290, so he'll be the biggest linebacker in NFL history. (Even bigger than Levon Kirkland.) The Patriots once considered pursuing Julius Peppers (6'7/280) to play outside 'backer in their 3-4, although Williams isn't quite as athletic. Still, it will give him a better chance at sacks than 3-4 end. Connor Barwin and Brooks Reed will compete for the job opposite Mario.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/42913543/ns/sports-player_news/

I have no problem with the Nate Solder pick, but I am convinced (1) that Cam Jordan would have been great value at #17, and (2) that Jordan would have made a devestating hybrid DE/OLB in the Pats' defense. Just like the Connor Barwin pick in 2009, I'll go to my grave believing that.
 
Dan Pompei has strong feels on Houston's moving to a 3-4 defense:

The reason to play Mario Williams at outside linebacker is he isn’t a defensive end in a 3-4. But he isn’t an outside linebacker either. Williams is a 4-3 defensive end. Or at least he used to be. And still should be.

The Texans’ switch to a 3-4 defense is puzzling on a number of levels, but it’s most puzzling because Williams is a 4-3 player. If the Texans, or any other 3-4 team were looking at Williams in the draft, they’d say he’s not a fit for our defense. Yet he unquestionably is one of the best players in the NFL. So why risk diminishing him?

And Williams isn’t the only player the Texas could either diminish or make obsolete by changing schemes. Middle linebacker DeMeco Ryans becomes an inside linebacker. Outside linebacker Brian Cushing, who was more effective outside than inside at Southern Cal, moves inside. Those position switches likely will make the Texans’ next best defenders less effective.

Then there are these linemen – Amobi Okoye, Antonio Smith, Shaun Cody, Earl Mitchell, Damione Lewis, Jarvis Green. There are some good players here, but not for a 3-4. There are scouts from 4-3 teams who are looking at these players and licking their chops, knowing some of them are going to be cut.

“I never would have screwed with a 3-4,” said one front office man who has been part of teams that have run both fronts. “They have a lot invested in 4-3 personnel, and it’s not set up to transition to a 3-4.”

In any defense, Williams probably still would be productive and problematical for opponents. He’s too good not to be. But the questions are can he be as effective at this scheme as he was in the previous one, and can the Texans defense be as effective?

I called Charley Casserly, the man who drafted Williams and Ryans, to ask him what he thought about all of this. “I have a lot of respect for Wade Phillips,” said Casserly, who now is an analyst for CBS Sports and NFL Network. “He has a good feel for talent and how to use it. However I think their best players are Mario Williams and DeMeco Ryans. Mario has been to the Pro Bowl as a 4-3 defensive end and DeMeco Ryans has been to the Pro Bowl as a middle linebacker. You’re asking both to play new positions. It would have made more sense to me to stay in a 4-3 defense.”

Williams told ace Texans reporter John McClain he played at 290 pounds last year. There is no prototype of an outside linebacker who weighed that much. The Texans have pointed to DeMarcus Ware as an outside linebacker Williams can be like. But Ware weighs about 30 pounds less.

“Ware is a rush guy,” Casserly said. “He rarely drops. Mario will be the same way. Ware is more athletic as a drop guy. He is a more fluid athlete. I didn’t think Mario would be very good in drops.”

The Texans’ new outside linebacker coach is Reggie Herring, who was Ware’s coach in Dallas and also was Williams’ defensive coordinator at North Carolina State. If anyone should understand how the players are similar or dissimilar, it is Herring.

The plan is for Williams to rush about 95 percent of the time, and Texans coach Gary Kubiak seems open to moving Williams back to defensive end if he fizzles at linebacker. But if Williams is playing linebacker, he is going to have to drop maybe eight snaps a game. Those eight snaps could easily turn wins into losses.

There is some precedent for players like Williams to be used as ends in 3-4 fronts. Bruce Smith and Richard Seymour would be the prototypes. Phillips’ original plan, before the team drafted J.J. Watt and Brooks Reed, was to keep Williams at end. But playing Williams at end in a three man front would be turning a great pass rusher into a run defender. How much sense does that make?

The advantage in making Williams a linebacker is there is a potential to create blocking mismatches. “They will walk him out of the slot,” said one offensive line coach who has prepared protection schemes against Williams many times. “They’ll try to get him matched up on backs, tight ends. But there are ways to keep a big guy on him. You fan them out.”

Offenses will try to force Williams to drop. The Texans will counter by moving him to the other side of the formation. But that will mean another linebacker, likely Reed, will have to drop and cover a tight end or back. That’s not an appealing option for the Texans either.

The great coaches adjust their systems to fit their talent. That’s what Phillips needs to do with a group of talented defenders who were acquired to fit another system.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/NFP-Sunday-Blitz-3374.html

This happens over and over again. Teams switch to a 3-4 withoiut the right personnel. Then they try and draft the right personnel. Then they switch back to a 4-3. No man's land.
 
Dan Pompei has strong feels on Houston's moving to a 3-4 defense:

The great coaches adjust their systems to fit their talent. That’s what Phillips needs to do with a group of talented defenders who were acquired to fit another system.



http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/NFP-Sunday-Blitz-3374.html

This happens over and over again. Teams switch to a 3-4 withoiut the right personnel. Then they try and draft the right personnel. Then they switch back to a 4-3. No man's land.

This is the key statement right here, and is a blow to any of you who thought the "dumb as dirt" look Wade Phillips" normally sports on his face is just a facade.

You don't force players to fit your system, you make your system fit the players, or you bring in players who DO fit your system as BB does.

Unbelievable that the Texans are going to willingly screw up a defense that is on the verge of being exceptional.
 
This is the key statement right here, and is a blow to any of you who thought the "dumb as dirt" look Wade Phillips" normally sports on his face is just a facade.

You don't force players to fit your system, you make your system fit the players, or you bring in players who DO fit your system as BB does.

Unbelievable that the Texans are going to willingly screw up a defense that is on the verge of being exceptional.

I agree. BB is the master at matching scheme and personnel. I don't see any reason the Texans couldn't play a "Big 4-3" with their personnel, using JJ Watt and Mario Williams as bookend 290# DE's. That could be devestating.

Look at how many teams seem to be stuck in limbo between the 3-4 and 4-3 without the right personnel: Denver, Buffalo, Cleveland. There's a theme here, and it isn't good.
 
Mario is 6'7/290, so he'll be the biggest linebacker in NFL history. (Even bigger than Levon Kirkland.)

I beg to differ. Kirk was 3 bills for sure.

nfl_g_kirkland_200.jpg
 
Look at how many teams seem to be stuck in limbo between the 3-4 and 4-3 without the right personnel: Denver, Buffalo, Cleveland. There's a theme here, and it isn't good.

Maybe it isn't good from the perspective of Denver, Buffalo or Cleveland fans, but it feels good from my personal perspective.
 
I beg to differ. Kirk was 3 bills for sure.

nfl_g_kirkland_200.jpg

Yes. He was 300 plus.

Why can't Phillips play a hybrid defense that has both 3-4 and 4-3? It might work. The Texans defense on paper looks pretty damn impressive!
 
Yes. He was 300 plus.

Why can't Phillips play a hybrid defense that has both 3-4 and 4-3? It might work. The Texans defense on paper looks pretty damn impressive!

He could, and that would probably be smart. Arizona and Baltimore play a hybrid 3-4/4-3. Maybe that;s what they will do. But Wade Phillips has previously been a downhill 1-gapping 3-4 guy all the way.
 
This happens over and over again. Teams switch to a 3-4 withoiut the right personnel. Then they try and draft the right personnel. Then they switch back to a 4-3. No man's land.
This.

I was laughing my ass off when I heard they were switching to a 3-4 and moving Williams to Linebacker.

Works for me. Every time he drops into coverage Manning will eat him alive.

The great part is that all those defensive players they've been drafting the past 3 years are now either useless or significantly less effective because they aren't 3-4 players. So now they're going to spend the next 2-3 years drafting 3-4 players while hovering around .500. Then they get tired of mediocrity and fire the coaching staff and the cycle begins anew.

Love it.
 
Also, I would sell my soul to find a way to make Mario Williams a Colt. He could have a Hall of Fame career in our defense at either end or tackle. If you thought I was obnoxious after our draft this year, you people haven't seen anything yet.
 
This.

I was laughing my ass off when I heard they were switching to a 3-4 and moving Williams to Linebacker.

Works for me. Every time he drops into coverage Manning will eat him alive.

The great part is that all those defensive players they've been drafting the past 3 years are now either useless or significantly less effective because they aren't 3-4 players. So now they're going to spend the next 2-3 years drafting 3-4 players while hovering around .500. Then they get tired of mediocrity and fire the coaching staff and the cycle begins anew.

Love it.

Yup. When Miami was switching to 3/4 under Saban I thanked God every time Jason Taylor dropped into coverage. :bow:

Disguise is only necessary when your guy doesn't dominate his man on every play, and Light was Jason's personal bitch.

As for this:

The Texans defense on paper looks pretty damn impressive!

Now that the Colts stole one, the Texans have become paper champions. And on paper it will stay.
 
Yup. When Miami was switching to 3/4 under Saban I thanked God every time Jason Taylor dropped into coverage. :bow:

Disguise is only necessary when your guy doesn't dominate his man on every play, and Light was Jason's personal bitch.

As for this:



Now that the Colts stole one, the Texans have become paper champions. And on paper it will stay.
Yeah, I've been hearing about how the Texans are the shit for about the past 4 years now, and they have zero repeat zero playoff appearances to show for it. Until further notice they are a .500 team
 
Also, I would sell my soul to find a way to make Mario Williams a Colt. He could have a Hall of Fame career in our defense at either end or tackle. If you thought I was obnoxious after our draft this year, you people haven't seen anything yet.

I don't know if he's big enough to play tackle, but no doubt he'd be great as an end for you guys.
 
I don't know if he's big enough to play tackle, but no doubt he'd be great as an end for you guys.
Warren Sapp (who for reference is the standard by which all tampa 2 DTs are judged) is about 5 lbs heavier than he is. A bit shorter, but both are incredibly disruptive players.

300lbs +/- 10lbs is pretty much ideal size for a Tampa/cover 2 defensive tackle. You have to be althetic and be able to disrupt the interior. Which I think Williams would be phenomenal at. And of course we already know he could play end.
 
Warren Sapp (who for reference is the standard by which all tampa 2 DTs are judged) is about 5 lbs heavier than he is. A bit shorter, but both are incredibly disruptive players.

300lbs +/- 10lbs is pretty much ideal size for a Tampa/cover 2 defensive tackle. You have to be althetic and be able to disrupt the interior. Which I think Williams would be phenomenal at. And of course we already know he could play end.

The weight isn't the issue. Williams is on the tall side to play 4-3 UT, and I'm not sure he's physical enough. If you're looking for a quick, disruptive 4-3 UT, then I think you got the droid you want in Drake Nevis.

BTW, though I'm obviously not a big fan of switching 4-3 personnel to 3-4 and vice-versa, it is possibly to effectively scheme around a player's coverage deficiencies. Look at how Tamba Hali did last year at 3-4 OLB for Kansas City. He's no more suited to dropping into coverage than Mario Williams, but his 14.5 sacks and Pro Bowl invitation suggest that the Chiefs were able to scheme around his coverage liabilities effectively enough to make it worthwhile.
 
The weight isn't the issue. Williams is on the tall side to play 4-3 UT, and I'm not sure he's physical enough. If you're looking for a quick, disruptive 4-3 UT, then I think you got the droid you want in Drake Nevis.
I "think" Williams would excell as a DT in our system, but the concerns you bring up are valid. I also agree with your assessment on Drake Nevis, but accept it will likely be a year or two before we really see what he will bring as a DT.


BTW, though I'm obviously not a big fan of switching 4-3 personnel to 3-4 and vice-versa, it is possibly to effectively scheme around a player's coverage deficiencies. Look at how Tamba Hali did last year at 3-4 OLB for Kansas City. He's no more suited to dropping into coverage than Mario Williams, but his 14.5 sacks and Pro Bowl invitation suggest that the Chiefs were able to scheme around his coverage liabilities effectively enough to make it worthwhile.
This is true. However, Mario Williams is a special player at 4-3 DE. He has (in my estimation) the ability to be a Hall of Fame player depending on how long his career is.

I just can't rationalize taking a guy that is one of if not the best in the league at his position and making him do something he isn't suited physically for. He's a great enough althelete that he'll probably be able to make it work, but to me it seems like slapping an f-1 engine in a station wagon.
 
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