The 53, Pre-season, Take-1

[Defsoul]

Here is my question and his answer.




Woody was on the team when BB drafted Vereen. Makes little sense to me esp since Ridley and Bolden are more redundant than Woody and Vereen, imo. :shrug:

Thoughts?

Vereen definitely makes the team. But I'm a Cal fan, so maybe I'm a little bit biased.

I didn't see much from Bolden against the Saints that made me say: This guy makes the team for sure. Vereen ran hard and showed good patience. I'd like to see him against someones first team defense.

 

[Oswlek]

Here is my question and his answer.




Woody was on the team when BB drafted Vereen. Makes little sense to me esp since Ridley and Bolden are more redundant than Woody and Vereen, imo. :shrug:

Thoughts?

Yeah, there is zero chance the team dumps Vereen in favor of Woody. None whatsoever.

If anything, a passing down back is more critical to the offense's success than a true #1, not that I want only one of those.

 

[German_Patriot]

Yeah, there is zero chance the team dumps Vereen in favor of Woody. None whatsoever.

If anything, a passing down back is more critical to the offense's success than a true #1, not that I want only one of those.

Agreed. I think if one of the Backs is cut, it's Bolden.

 

[chevss454]

Agreed. I think if one of the Backs is cut, it's Bolden.

Yeah, there is zero chance the team dumps Vereen in favor of Woody. None whatsoever.

If anything, a passing down back is more critical to the offense's success than a true #1, not that I want only one of those.

I agree with both of you. Because of potential, I rank them Ridley, Vereen, Woody then Bolden. Still, I have Woody in the game in a high pressure situation instead of Vereen until Vereen proves himself superior and as dependable.

 

[(P - shoulder)]

Bolden is the "hot undrafted rookie corner" from that training camp parody article someone posted that I now can't for the life of me find to support this post :shrug:

 

[chevss454]

Mike Dussault's 2nd version

I probably have too many OL, that will be the next place I open a spot, whether Vollmer or Waters come back, or Ebert or Ebner or Dennard shine at some point in the second and third preseason games.
QB (3) Tom Brady, Brian Hoyer, Ryan Mallett
RB (4) Stevan Ridley, Danny Woodhead, Shane Vereen, Brandon Bolden
WR (6) Wes Welker, Brandon Lloyd, Jabar Gaffney, Julian Edelman, Donte Stallworth, Matthew Slater
TE (3) Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez, Visanthe Shiancoe
C (2) Dan Koppen, Dan Connolly
G (4) Logan Mankins, Brian Waters, Ryan Wendell, Donald Thomas
T (4) Nate Solder, Sebastian Vollmer, Marcus Cannon, Darrion Weems
DE (6) Rob Ninkovich, Chandler Jones, Jermaine Cunningham, Trevor Scott, Jake Bequette, Justin Francis
DT (4) Vince Wilfork, Kyle Love, Jonathan Fanene, Brandon Deaderick
ILB(3) Jerod Mayo, Brandon Spikes, Tracy White
OLB(2) Donta Hightower, Bobby Carpenter
CB (5) Devin McCourty, Kyle Arrington, Ras-I Dowling, Sterling Moore, Will Allen
SS (2) Patrick Chung, James Ihedigbo
FS (2) Steve Gregory, Tavon Wilson
ST (3) Stephen Gostkowski, Zoltan Mesko, Danny Aiken
Total players: 53

http://patspropaganda.com/post/29355977117/my-latest-53-man-patriots-roster

 

[MaineMan]

Holy misinterpretation, Batman!

Seriously, being this far off on the RB situation pretty much invalidates everything else he says.

Kyed, like most other analysts, is far too much into "depth charts" for me, completely ignoring differing skill-sets/roles, and wastes a lot of writing space on looking for clues as to who is "ahead" of who. He wrote in a recent piece that the Pats must have "preferred" Vereen to Ridley because they drafted Vereen first, completely oblivious to the concept that market demand determines when you have to draft a guy if you want him.

He makes some good points and offers some observations about game/practice performances that others don't, but I take his opinions with a heavy dose of salt. Well, actually, I do that with every "analyst".

 

[MaineMan]

I was being mildly hyperbolic, but it is seriously off the mark. Vereen is nowhere near the bubble and NE regularly gives early snaps to surprisingly productive newcomers to see how they handle it.

It also is pretty silly to call McDonald an OT simply because he took some emergency prep snaps there the other day. I grant him the Silvestro pick, but IMO NE still having him as the primary blocking TE says more about their expectations that Fells or Shiancoe will return that it does about Alex's possible roster status.

But the Vereen one... wowser!

This. Even if neither Fells or Shiancoe is ready to go for Week-1, I don't think Fells sticks. More likely that the Pats would keep an extra OL for the blocking or use the roster spot for a "temp" to cover in a different unit that's dinged-up.

Silvestro's range of experience on both offense and defense, though, makes him a prime candidate for the PS scout team.

 

[chevss454]

BB said on EEI yesterday that playing 3 games in 10 days "isn't ideal". Health always goes a long way towards deciding who is on the 53 and BB's primary focus is on keeping his guys as healthy as possible during this stretch. Expect a lot of rest for the core players over this next 2 weeks.

The Patriots play their final three preseason games in a span of 10 days, which was a topic Bill Belichick was asked about during his weekly appearance on sports radio WEEI on Monday.

Monday, Aug. 20 -- vs. Eagles
Friday, Aug. 24 -- at Buccaneers
Wednesday, Aug. 29 -- at Giants

Belichick hinted at how he will approach the compressed schedule, which also includes a set of joint practices in Tampa on Wednesday, Aug. 22 and Thursday, Aug. 23.

"It’s not an ideal schedule and it’s certainly not the way you’d want to do it. But it is what it is, so we’ll just deal with it the best we can. It’s like playing double-headers, but there is nothing we can do about that," he said on the "Big Show."

"I think the big thing is to go out there and play, and give the players a chance to recover so they can go and play again, and then give them a chance to recover so they can go play again. Playing that many games, in that short a period of time, is obviously not the ideal way to do it.

"There is nothing more important than the health of our team, and you want to recognize that and do everything we can to keep as many guys practicing and healthy as we possibly can. I’d say that will probably be the No. 1 priority relative to those games, and then evaluate the guys that are playing and see how they do."

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-.../id/4727052/belichick-hints-at-preseason-plan

 

[Hawg73]

Shane Vereen is on the bubble.

This is the question and it wouldn't shock me if that were the case even if he played well during shock troop time last Thursday.

The real question is why did BB draft a guy like him when Woody-- a similar player-- was already on the roster and that could be due to BB's admitted penchant for rolling the dice in the 2nd round to get a 1st round talent, which is a questionable philosophy given all the machinations to obtain those picks and the benefit we've recieved from them overall. Sometimes he hits big, as in Gronkowski, but there are a bunch of guys that have disappointed and maybe that's a topic for another dozen threads.

Vereen, simply put, has mad wheels. His acceleration and speed, specifically a deeper kind of speed than Woody's quicks, is rare and of first round ability, but BB likes backs that hit the hole as designed and don't dance around taking 5 yard losses and I'm sure that has been emphasized with Shane, but he does do that on occasion and did it again Thursday against the scrubs. His blocking is not currently acceptable, nor is his ability to stay on the field over the past two years. He's a home-run type of back and is a bit outside BB's normal MO.

I'd say his potential to improve in these negative areas is questionable. He's a little light in the loafers, as is Danny, but doesn't seem to lower his head and get the extra tough yard or half yard as successful pro backs do. He supposedly weighs 210, but plays smaller. I question whether he is tough enough to give us what we need. He is certainly the least physical of our backs, including Woody who sticks his face in there and tries his ass off.

Vereen flashes enough talent that I believe he should be given every opportunity to stick, but if you see him dancing looking for a hole or blowing blitz pickup over the next few games then it wouldn't surprise me to see him given a bus ticket home and a cardboard suitcase. Not at all. Flashing talent ain't enough.

Look for him to get first-team snaps going forward, because I think this is make-or-break time for him and BB is still looking at FB types to add to this finesse collection of backs along with Bolden. I believe he is trying to decide whether he can count on Vereen to do his job, despite the potential he so obviously has to be a game-changer.

 

[chevss454]

Shane Vereen is on the bubble.

This is the question and it wouldn't shock me if that were the case even if he played well during shock troop time last Thursday.

The real question is why did BB draft a guy like him when Woody-- a similar player-- was already on the roster and that could be due to BB's admitted penchant for rolling the dice in the 2nd round to get a 1st round talent, which is a questionable philosophy given all the machinations to obtain those picks and the benefit we've recieved from them overall. Sometimes he hits big, as in Gronkowski, but there are a bunch of guys that have disappointed and maybe that's a topic for another dozen threads.

Vereen, simply put, has mad wheels. His acceleration and speed, specifically a deeper kind of speed than Woody's quicks, is rare and of first round ability, but BB likes backs that hit the hole as designed and don't dance around taking 5 yard losses and I'm sure that has been emphasized with Shane, but he does do that on occasion and did it again Thursday against the scrubs. His blocking is not currently acceptable, nor is his ability to stay on the field over the past two years. He's a home-run type of back and is a bit outside BB's normal MO.

I'd say his potential to improve in these negative areas is questionable. He's a little light in the loafers, as is Danny, but doesn't seem to lower his head and get the extra tough yard or half yard as successful pro backs do. He supposedly weighs 210, but plays smaller. I question whether he is tough enough to give us what we need. He is certainly the least physical of our backs, including Woody who sticks his face in there and tries his ass off.

Vereen flashes enough talent that I believe he should be given every opportunity to stick, but if you see him dancing looking for a hole or blowing blitz pickup over the next few games then it wouldn't surprise me to see him given a bus ticket home and a cardboard suitcase. Not at all. Flashing talent ain't enough.

Look for him to get first-team snaps going forward, because I think this is make-or-break time for him and BB is still looking at FB types to add to this finesse collection of backs along with Bolden. I believe he is trying to decide whether he can count on Vereen to do his job, despite the potential he so obviously has to be a game-changer.

Can I assume you don't appreciate Shane Vereen?

 

[Hawg73]

.

Silvestro's range of experience on both offense and defense, though, makes him a prime candidate for the PS scout team.

I keep waiting to see something in Silvesto and haven't managed to find anything yet. I thought he was woeful at DE last season and he doesn't look like much of a blocker thus far at TE, which is all you want to see at this point from a former DL.

We shouldn't expect much this early, but the position change doesn't bode well for his chances, imo. I don't think he's shown enough to stick on the PS, but the jury is still out.

 

[Hawg73]

Can I assume you don't appreciate Shane Vereen?

As soon as I see him knock some dicks in the dirt, I will be glad to start appreciating him. Ain't happened yet.

 

[chevss454]

I keep waiting to see something in Silvesto and haven't managed to find anything yet. I thought he was woeful at DE last season and he doesn't look like much of a blocker thus far at TE, which is all you want to see at this point from a former DL.

We shouldn't expect much this early, but the position change doesn't bode well for his chances, imo. I don't think he's shown enough to stick on the PS, but the jury is still out.

He's done better than I expected but you're right that a position change is a tough proposition. He did do a reasonable Gronk impression for a nice catch up the seam yesterday. Lot's of TC left but he has to impress quickly.

 

[chevss454]

As soon as I see him knock some dicks in the dirt, I will be glad to start appreciating him. Ain't happened yet.

None of our RBs seem to be excelling in pass pro or blocking. When little Danny Woodhead is your best blocker, you've got troubles.

 

[Hawg73]

None of our RBs seem to be excelling in pass pro or blocking. When little Danny Woodhead is your best blocker, you've got troubles.

This why I'm thinking Kettani has a legit shot to stick. I'm not saying he is Sam Gash back there, but he looks the part.

Him or anybody else that can stay healthy for a week or so. It's unreal how this FB experiment has gone for BB. He must be tearing his hair out. I feel like he definitely wants a dependable blocker in that backfield and the waiver wire remains a possibility.

This is one reason why I can't get overly psyched to try to figure out the 53-man roster from what we now have in camp. I think he brings somebody in from left field as he sees fit and spoils everybody's efforts.

 

[chevss454]

This why I'm thinking Kettani has a legit shot to stick. I'm not saying he is Sam Gash back there, but he looks the part.

Him or anybody else that can stay healthy for a week or so. It's unreal how this FB experiment has gone for BB. He must be tearing his hair out. I feel like he definitely wants a dependable blocker in that backfield and the waiver wire remains a possibility.

This is one reason why I can't get overly psyched to try to figure out the 53-man roster from what we now have in camp. I think he brings somebody in from left field as he sees fit and spoils everybody's efforts.

FB and OL seem good candidates. Problem is there are many teams looking for OL help now. That display by the Cowboys last night was horrendous. Romo had 2/10 of a second to throw and Seymour wasn't in the game.

A blocking back shouldn't be a problem though.

 

[Oswlek]

Shane Vereen is on the bubble.

This is the question and it wouldn't shock me if that were the case even if he played well during shock troop time last Thursday.

The real question is why did BB draft a guy like him when Woody-- a similar player-- was already on the roster and that could be due to BB's admitted penchant for rolling the dice in the 2nd round to get a 1st round talent, which is a questionable philosophy given all the machinations to obtain those picks and the benefit we've recieved from them overall. Sometimes he hits big, as in Gronkowski, but there are a bunch of guys that have disappointed and maybe that's a topic for another dozen threads.

Vereen, simply put, has mad wheels. His acceleration and speed, specifically a deeper kind of speed than Woody's quicks, is rare and of first round ability, but BB likes backs that hit the hole as designed and don't dance around taking 5 yard losses and I'm sure that has been emphasized with Shane, but he does do that on occasion and did it again Thursday against the scrubs. His blocking is not currently acceptable, nor is his ability to stay on the field over the past two years. He's a home-run type of back and is a bit outside BB's normal MO.

I'd say his potential to improve in these negative areas is questionable. He's a little light in the loafers, as is Danny, but doesn't seem to lower his head and get the extra tough yard or half yard as successful pro backs do. He supposedly weighs 210, but plays smaller. I question whether he is tough enough to give us what we need. He is certainly the least physical of our backs, including Woody who sticks his face in there and tries his ass off.

Vereen flashes enough talent that I believe he should be given every opportunity to stick, but if you see him dancing looking for a hole or blowing blitz pickup over the next few games then it wouldn't surprise me to see him given a bus ticket home and a cardboard suitcase. Not at all. Flashing talent ain't enough.

Look for him to get first-team snaps going forward, because I think this is make-or-break time for him and BB is still looking at FB types to add to this finesse collection of backs along with Bolden. I believe he is trying to decide whether he can count on Vereen to do his job, despite the potential he so obviously has to be a game-changer.

My affinity for Shane is well documented, but I still think this post is off base.

First off, Shane ain't remotely on the bubble. He is a locked onto this roster as anyone not named Brady or Wilfork.

Second, the only dancing I saw out of him this past week was in the second level, ergo he did hit the hole he way you want him to. The only reason he was in there in the second half was because NE wanted to give Bolden a trial by fire.

You say "past two years" but he was only absent last year. He's missed no time this year.

"Make or break" he isn't. The only thing up in the air is whether he gets the most snaps this year or trails to Ridley.

 

[chevss454]

Doug Kyed of NEPDraft stirred up a shit storm on twitter when he posted that Bolden has passed Vereen on the depth chart and that Vereen is on the bubble.

Doug Kyed ‏<s>@</s>DougKyedNEPD Until proven differently it appears an UDFA has passed a 2nd year 2nd rd pick on the depth chart. Let's run with that, not excuses.
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<small class="time"> 41m </small> Damien Jarrett ‏<s>@</s>DamoJarrett
<s>@</s>DougKyedNEPD do you think we run with four RBs and a FB this year? Going on past trends, I see only 3 RBs and a FB.
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<small class="time"> 39m </small> Doug Kyed ‏<s>@</s>DougKyedNEPD
<s>@</s>DamoJarrett I could see 4 rbs/1 fb, 4 rbs and 3 rbs 1 fb. I don't think Vereen will get cut, but its at least a possibility right now.
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<small class="time"> 38m </small> Damien Jarrett ‏<s>@</s>DamoJarrett
<s>@</s>DougKyedNEPD I could argue woodhead is more on the bubble than we think...given Vereen could do his job.
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<small class="time"> 34m </small> Steve Palazzolo ‏<s>@</s>Draft_Hub
<s>@</s>DamoJarrett <s>@</s>dougkyednepd I don't think Woody has the same explosion as two years ago
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<small class="time"> 32m </small> Doug Kyed ‏<s>@</s>DougKyedNEPD
<s>@</s>Draft_Hub <s>@</s>DamoJarrett he certainly didn't look as good last year, but he's clearly the best (only?) Pats RB for the no huddle.
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<small class="time"> 31m </small> Steve Palazzolo ‏<s>@</s>Draft_Hub
<s>@</s>DougKyedNEPD <s>@</s>damojarrett I think Ridley can do it. I don't think there's a chance Vereen gets cut btw
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<small class="time"> 28m </small> Doug Kyed ‏<s>@</s>DougKyedNEPD
<s>@</s>Draft_Hub <s>@</s>DamoJarrett w Vereen, I think you just have to look at numbers on the roster. There's a reason he got passed in 2 wks by Bolden.
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<small class="time"> 13m </small> chevss454 Will S. ‏<s>@</s>animedpet
<s>@</s>DougKyedNEPD <s>@</s>Draft_Hub <s>@</s>DamoJarrett I don't think Bolden's ahead of Vereen; I think he's behind Ridley. Vereen and Woody are in a race.

 

[Hawg73]

My affinity for Shane is well documented, but I still think this post is off base.

First off, Shane ain't remotely on the bubble. He is a locked onto this roster as anyone not named Brady or Wilfork.

Second, the only dancing I saw out of him this past week was in the second level, ergo he did hit the hole he way you want him to. The only reason he was in there in the second half was because NE wanted to give Bolden a trial by fire.

You say "past two years" but he was only absent last year. He's missed no time this year.

"Make or break" he isn't. The only thing up in the air is whether he gets the most snaps this year or trails to Ridley.

I was wrong about the "past two years" part-- an egregious error on my part.

For some reason, I thought this was his 3rd year and I stand corrected. And a little embarassed. Maybe I got him mixed up with Ron Brace, which is understandable.



That makes my previous post on his status as questionable at best and probably impatient, but if you didn't see him get stuffed for a loss last Thursday while dancing for a hole on the right side then you missed one.

Still, it was an encouraging performance and I'd like to see him play tougher moving forward.