Who takes the main blame for this horrible offense

[Deus Irae]

if one's position is that even a decent wr on the team wouldn't help much and points to how much more productive a guy like jonnu is now elsewhere or meyers is still,i can see that p.o.v.

That would be valid if you were taking every example I laid out as a singular reason. But I didn't lay them out as singular reasons, because it's not been just one singular reason. So, sure, if you do nothing at all different beyond bringing in Hopkins, you're not likely to see any dramatic improvement, because....


BB:

• Cut loose the G.O.A.T.
• Drafted all the drafted players currently on the roster, along with all of the busts in recent years
• scrapped the offense while making his former DC, who'd essentially never worked on the offense at any high level, the OC who would be implementing the new offense that was unsuited to most of the old-guard players. And then having to flip back to the old system after having brought in guys like Strange, who really don't fit that old system.
• Didn't sure up what was obviously an insufficient offensive line
• Didn't get the type of 3rd down RB that's so important in this offense
• Knowing the limitations to the team because of the two items above, he still didn't bring in a quality blocking FB to help in pass coverage so that his TE1 wouldn't have to be used as a blocker at critical times
• Let the team's most reliable WR go, and replaced him with the corpse of a player who'd been in decline for years

etc...


And that's the point of why you lay the blame on Belichick, not on any other coach, or any player.

 

[Deus Irae]

Someone has to throw to him, yes?

Sure. That changes literally nothing about what I posted, though.

 

[HSanders]

That would be valid if you were taking every example I laid out as a singular reason. But I didn't lay them out as singular reasons, because it's not been just one singular reason. So, sure, if you do nothing at all different beyond bringing in Hopkins, you're not likely to see any dramatic improvement, because....


BB:

• Cut loose the G.O.A.T.
• Drafted all the drafted players currently on the roster, along with all of the busts in recent years
• scrapped the offense while making his former DC, who'd essentially never worked on the offense at any high level, the OC who would be implementing the new offense that was unsuited to most of the old-guard players. And then having to flip back to the old system after having brought in guys like Strange, who really don't fit that old system.
• Didn't sure up what was obviously an insufficient offensive line
• Didn't get the type of 3rd down RB that's so important in this offense
• Knowing the limitations to the team because of the two items above, he still didn't bring in a quality blocking FB to help in pass coverage so that his TE1 wouldn't have to be used as a blocker at critical times
• Let the team's most reliable WR go, and replaced him with the corpse of a player who'd been in decline for years

etc...


And that's the point of why you lay the blame on Belichick, not on any other coach, or any player.

yes,ultimately the buck stops with bb just as it starts with him. i wish i knew the "whys" of all those decisions because even though the results were not good, all of them or at least some might have been reasonable choices based on what was behind them.

 

[chevss454]

You needed a 5th option - all of the above.

The main blame of course falls on Bill who is the one building the roster. His moves this offseason have been spectacularly bad from letting Meyers go to signing Juju and extending Parker.

I think a close second though is Bill O'Brien. He has been the biggest disappointment IMO as we all know BB is a defensive guy and Bob was brought in to make this offense legit after the dumpster fire last year. We are right now in the running for the lowest point total since the 2011 St. Louis Rams. The bulk of that has to fall on him.

All of the above is the correct answer.

Michael McCorkle Jones bears the most responsibility. After that, it's a mix of injuries and underperformance. I really want to give Bill O'Brien a big piece of the blame too - although honestly, I find myself watching and think 'Well, if my QB can't complete a pass to anyone on my team more than 2 yards down the field, what am I supposed to call?" Way too much shotgun, way too little playaction from under center. That's on O'Brien.

Mac shares blame but I have difficulty thinking he's responsible for most of this disaster. His turtling tendencies began last year. We all knew he needed better protection.
I think that falls squarely on Belichick for providing crap WRs and for not providing a better OL to give Mac time to cook. Riley Reiff and Calvin Anderson were cheap fill-ins.
BoB's scheme/play calls lack imagination and innovation. He gets a lot of blame from me, too.
It's also on the offensive position coaches. Klemm for not teaching stunt pickups, Troy Brown for not insisting WRs learn the correct routes and how to run them consistently in timing with the QB. With limited separation timing becomes all important. Thornton is still taking 5 jab steps before his stem cut!!

All of the above is the correct answer but BB the GM gets most of the blame from my view if I have to pick 1 of those things in the poll.

 

[Deus Irae]

yes,ultimately the buck stops with bb just as it starts with him. i wish i knew the "whys" of all those decisions because even though the results were not good, all of them or at least some might have been reasonable choices based on what was behind them.

Since your post started based upon the Hopkins line, let me respond the following way, after noting that I'm with you and I'd love to hear Bill tell the truth about why he made some of those decisions when so many of them were obviously bad from the start:


Other than Hopkins telling BB that he wouldn't sign in New England for any price, and proving it by turning down an obscenely generous offer, what would be a valid reason to pass on Hopkins and then to give more money to Parker in 2023, when Hopkins was coming off of an injury-shortened season (9 games) where he still managed 64 catches on 96 targets?

 

[Big/Sky/Fly]

BB tries too hard to find the diamonds in the rough…and ends up signing duds and players with expired dates instead. Sometimes the best player available will have character issues.

 

[chevss454]

Since your post started based upon the Hopkins line, let me respond the following way, after noting that I'm with you and I'd love to hear Bill tell the truth about why he made some of those decisions when so many of them were obviously bad from the start:


Other than Hopkins telling BB that he wouldn't sign in New England for any price, and proving it by turning down an obscenely generous offer, what would be a valid reason to pass on Hopkins and then to give more money to Parker in 2023, when Hopkins was coming off of an injury-shortened season (9 games) where he still managed 64 catches on 96 targets?

All I can think of is DHops' notoriously bad practice habits. I don't think BB could tolerate it and I don't think DHop would change. Maybe they both knew it wouldn't work.

Signing Parker, smfh, is a different subject for which I have no answer at all. Same for signing Juju and letting Meyers go.

 

[HSanders]

Other than Hopkins telling BB that he wouldn't sign in New England for any price, and proving it by turning down an obscenely generous offer, what would be a valid reason to pass on Hopkins and then to give more money to Parker in 2023, when Hopkins was coming off of an injury-shortened season (9 games) where he still managed 64 catches on 96 targets?

agree that if they had a chance to sign him with a fair contract absent any other issues that it was not a good decision by bb. iirc at the time, i felt more like the pats were serving as help in a bidding war rather than their having much interest. and barring medical reasons and excess $ they should have tried to get him for sure.

 

[Deus Irae]

All I can think of is DHops' notoriously bad practice habits. I don't think BB could tolerate it and I don't think DHop would change. Maybe they both knew it wouldn't work...

Then why meet with him in the first place, when you've already got BOB available for input into that?

 

[chevss454]

agree that if they had a chance to sign him with a fair contract absent any other issues that it was not a good decision by bb. iirc at the time, i felt more like the pats were serving as help in a bidding war rather than their having much interest. and barring medical reasons and excess $ they should have tried to get him for sure.

Then why meet with him in the first place, when you've already got BOB available for input into that?

BB has a lot of respect for DHops' play on the field but that doesn't translate to wanting to coach him. HS is right that reports at the time speculated that BB was doing him a favor.

 

[chevss454]

Devin McCourty on if Mac Jones’ struggles should be attributed to himself or what the #Patriots have put around him (via
@TheGregHillShow
“I mean, to me it's a no brainer. Everybody in the organization’s raved about the guy's work ethic. How he's there early, he's there late. So, to me, it's hard to just say, like, it's his fault…I don't think, no matter how you feel about him, I don't think you’d walk away from the situation and say, ‘hey, you know, this situation that they built around him was really good and he just didn't get the job done.’ Like, to me, there's no way, if you're gonna be factual, you gotta look, there's just no way. You have three different offensive coordinators in three years. They had different receivers, and I would say impact players kind of each year. All have been kind of moving parts. Seemed like he kind of build a connection with Jakobi Meyers, then Jakobi’s gone.So like it would be hard for me to just say, ‘hey, like it's all him.’Like Kendrick Bourne, his rookie year goes out there has a kind of a career year. Then the next year, Kendrick Bourne doesn't really play at all...And again, I have no problem with the guys that watch and say, ‘hey, I evaluated this quarterback, his arm strength, his mobility. Like if you want to come up with all of those metrics that you think makes a quarterback good and you think he doesn't hit those certain criteria that you like in a quarterback, I get that.But I think. overall, if you say, ‘hey, which side do you see more at fault?’ To me it’s no doubt the organization, what's been put around him, for these straight three years.”

 

[Deus Irae]

BB has a lot of respect for DHops' play on the field but that doesn't translate to wanting to coach him. HS is right that reports at the time speculated that BB was doing him a favor.

It came down to Tennessee and New England. What was the favor? Is having a visit supposed to fool Mike Vrabel, a former Patriots player?

I don't really see the value of people sidetracking the thread by arguing that BB shouldn't be on the hook for not getting an available WR when the WR is obviously an upgrade. But, if people are going to do that, let's at least acknowledge that "But BB didn't really want him" isn't a defense for not getting the player.

 

[Big/Sky/Fly]

Hopkins was NEVER going to save this season in NE…

 

[dchester]

His biggest failure is at skill position. He only wanted WRs on value deals . He can't draft WRs worth shit. This was a loaded WR draft. He waited to 6th to draft boutte & Douglas.

The funny this is that this might be his best WR Draft since he picked Branch and Givens, eons ago. Douglas looks like a keeper. We'll see about Boutte, Maybe next year.

 

[rivshark86]

I can’t stand BB after his roster moves for the past 10 years, but I don’t blame him for drafting Mac.

QBs are tough to predict. There was a need and Mac had to be that choice.

It’s 90 percent of his other draft picks I have a problem with, and I’ve stated this for years.

 

[king of kings]

The funny this is that this might be his best WR Draft since he picked Branch and Givens, eons ago. Douglas looks like a keeper. We'll see about Boutte, Maybe next year.

That’s not a good thing . Douglas is only WR . That can create Separation . I see as the #3 Slot WR. Thornton joins a long list of busts .

 

[Deus Irae]

Hopkins was NEVER going to save this season in NE…

That Hopkins was going to come in and save the season all on his own was never the argument.