Oswlek
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"Denver's receivers are better than anything Manning ever had in Indy."
That statement, said by my friend, is what precipitated this entire conversation.
I have to admit that I disagree. As others have stated Harrison/Wayne/Stokley/Clark/James is about as completely a corps as anyone has ever played with, at any point in the league.
That said, over the course of the discussion, I was surprised to find out how few years all of these guys played together. Only in 2004 and 2005 was that entire group together. '03 was Wayne's rookie season and he wasn't the same guy. Stokely and James were gone by '06. Because of this I ended up agreeing that Indy's average season was a bit top heavy, outside of those two seasons.
However, what I can't agree with is the idea that Denver's group is better. My buddy's evidence to this point is how many people on Denver have respectable receiving numbers, but I think he is misinterpreting the information.
IMO, the reason for the appearance of stellar depth is two-fold.
1) Denver's OL is better than what he had in Indy, giving him the time to find more reads.
2) Manning himself isn't quite as capable of hitting the small spots, so he forces fewer passes, settling for whoever is open.
I just look at a guy like Jacob Tamme, who is Denver's fourth leading receiver, and I can't see him as being markedly better than whoever the 2nd TE was on Indy. The reason why he has more yardage that Indy's typical 4th receiver is style of play, not caliber of talent.
Carry on...
Edit: I suppose this may come off contradictory to what I wrote in the MVP debate, but it really isn't. Denver's weapons are really good, not living up to perhaps the greatest receiving corps in the history of the game ain't exactly an indictment. And Manning had a fantastic year, he just didn't have a markedly more impressive year than any of the top tier QBs, and definitely wasn't as impressive as AP, who might've had the most impressive RB performance we'll ever witness.
That statement, said by my friend, is what precipitated this entire conversation.
I have to admit that I disagree. As others have stated Harrison/Wayne/Stokley/Clark/James is about as completely a corps as anyone has ever played with, at any point in the league.
That said, over the course of the discussion, I was surprised to find out how few years all of these guys played together. Only in 2004 and 2005 was that entire group together. '03 was Wayne's rookie season and he wasn't the same guy. Stokely and James were gone by '06. Because of this I ended up agreeing that Indy's average season was a bit top heavy, outside of those two seasons.
However, what I can't agree with is the idea that Denver's group is better. My buddy's evidence to this point is how many people on Denver have respectable receiving numbers, but I think he is misinterpreting the information.
IMO, the reason for the appearance of stellar depth is two-fold.
1) Denver's OL is better than what he had in Indy, giving him the time to find more reads.
2) Manning himself isn't quite as capable of hitting the small spots, so he forces fewer passes, settling for whoever is open.
I just look at a guy like Jacob Tamme, who is Denver's fourth leading receiver, and I can't see him as being markedly better than whoever the 2nd TE was on Indy. The reason why he has more yardage that Indy's typical 4th receiver is style of play, not caliber of talent.
Carry on...
Edit: I suppose this may come off contradictory to what I wrote in the MVP debate, but it really isn't. Denver's weapons are really good, not living up to perhaps the greatest receiving corps in the history of the game ain't exactly an indictment. And Manning had a fantastic year, he just didn't have a markedly more impressive year than any of the top tier QBs, and definitely wasn't as impressive as AP, who might've had the most impressive RB performance we'll ever witness.