Tom Brady/Tampa Off-season thread

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spacecrime said:
Don't forget the Rams game. 13 points won't win you many games, but when your defense hold the other team to 3 points, it's pretty hard to lose. See the elite QB who won the first Ravens superbowl in 2000.

We don't even get into the 2001 superbowl with Vinatieri. and IIRC correctly, the offense scored exactly 3 TDs in all the 2001 playoff games combined. Brady did a great job, but we had some ferocious defenses 2001, 2003, and 2004.

2nd Eagles superbowl would have been hard to win with ANY QB given the defense. The 2007 both offense and defense sputtered, along with coaching.

It's not about one guy, as good as one guy might be.

Brady is the GOAT. Enjoy it rather than spending all your emotional energy trying to make it like no one else did anything. He'll be gone soon and you will have squandered your existence for a pocketful of sour grapes tilting at a windmill, to mix a few metaphors and quotes.
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That's what I object to. In 2001, The Patriots D held one of the greatest ever offences and nullified Faulk. It's an insult to say this was a Brady SB, an insult to Willie Mac, Bruschi, Milloy, Law, Seymour, Vrabel etc.
 
Roberto71 said:
That's what I object to. In 2001, The Patriots D held one of the greatest ever offences and nullified Faulk. It's an insult to say this was a Brady SB, an insult to Willie Mac, Bruschi, Milloy, Law, Seymour, Vrabel etc.
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They never get to the Super Bowl without Brady. The entire season was a bit of a fairy tale from game to game but the difference in the team was when #12 stepped on the field. Players on that team from Ty Law to Damien Woody have said this.
 
Mazz22 said:
They never get to the Super Bowl without Brady. The entire season was a bit of a fairy tale from game to game but the difference in the team was when #12 stepped on the field. Players on that team from Ty Law to Damien Woody have said this.
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Bullshit.
 
Roberto71 said:
Bullshit.
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Do you think they get there with Bledsoe? He was 5-13. 0-2 to start that season on a team that was going nowhere with losses to the Bengals and Jetes. LOL
 
Mazz22 said:
They never get to the Super Bowl without Brady. The entire season was a bit of a fairy tale from game to game but the difference in the team was when #12 stepped on the field. Players on that team from Ty Law to Damien Woody have said this.
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You don't know that. At that point Bledsoe was the more accomplished QB plus the team with a lot of new veteran players was just beginning to gel. Defense kept them in and won games. That D was pretty damn good. Brady wouldn't become TFB until 6 years later.
 
they would have gotten to the sb with a solid qb who was a good leader and teammate and didn't turn the ball over and took coaching. that's what tb was in 01. pretty sure a criminally
underrated guy like trent green could have won a sb with the pats in 2001.
 
chevss454 said:
From 2010 to 2019 BB had the 25th most draft capital to work with but had the 7th best NFL drafts over that time. You might want to rethink your criticism of BB as a GM.

www.footballoutsiders.com

NFL Drafting Efficiency, 2010-2019

Guest columnist Benjamin Ellinger breaks down every draft pick in the past 10 years. Did Cleveland's tanking policy pay off? Which teams had the best results in the draft, and which wasted their picks? And is there anything meaningful in this data, or is there really some skill involved? The...
www.footballoutsiders.com www.footballoutsiders.com
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Don't waste your time trying to convince the dopes with empirical information. It doesn't register in their undersized brains.
 
king of kings said:
Mazz scale it back a bit. Those Early SB's won't all about Brady . He was just a game Manager until 07. Those Early years were known for dink & dunk offense & good Patriots Defenses.
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I didn't say they were all about Brady. But we don't win any of them without him.
Game managers are not pro bowlers or lead the league in TD passes like Brady did his second year as a starter.
I think many of you misremember just how good he was by 2003 and think his 2001 season was the way he was until 2007. You really need to go back and watch those seasons again especially the Carlina SB and Pitt Afccg in 2004 and his entire 2006 season when he was outplaying Manning with Caldwell and Gaffney as his receivers.
 
Mazz22 said:
Based on what? They were 5-13 until Brady stepped on the field. That was not a championship roster in way shape or form in 2001 until #12 came in.

But let's be real here. We saw what happened last year. There is no more proof needed. It was always Brady. Bill is not even an average coach without him.
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When did you start following the Patriots. Did you watch games in 2001? Do you remembe the defense? Do you remember the AFCCG? I'm trying to put your comments into context. I agree that that was not a champion roster (we started the season with 51, not 53 players because BB didn't think he had 53 NFL-caliber players on his 90 man roster). It was supposed to be a rebuild year. BB cut so many of the Club House Gang, and becasuse of dead money had to sign like 17 low quality FAs. He wanted Priest Holmes bu couldn't afford him. But Belichick coached the JAGs into a championship quality TEAM In the entire playoffs Brady scored 2 TDs. Bledsoe had one. Troy Brown punt return another. Ty Law pic6 another. BB's gameplan to disrupt Marshall Faulk disrupted the entire Rams offense. Brady was protected the same way Rothlesberger was protected his first year with a simplified offense.

They won, but it was NOT all Brady. It was mostlly defense, good STs, and an average offense. 2 I know what you want to believe, but 2001 Brady wasn't 2007 and beyond Brady. No BB, no defense in 2001-2004 and no superbowls. It took an entire team to win.

As far as Brady going to Tampa and winning and the Pats not winning in 2020 proving that it was always Brady and BB isn't even average without him? You're trying too hard. Brady is the GOAT. Accept and enjoy it.

I'll leave you to it.
 
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Never said it was ALL Brady but we don't win those early chips without him and his clutch play.
 
Mazz22 said:
Never said it was ALL Brady but we don't win those early chips without him and his clutch play.
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We'll just have to disagree about this.

BTW...
Chips go great with dip and sandwiches. There are a lot of different brands and each brand has a wide variety of flavors.
indextemplate-potatochippers-1526076567.jpg


There's only 1 Lombardi Trophy which signifies a championship.
s-l400.jpg
 
Mazz22 said:
There is no way Rodgers is 6'2 if Brady is 6'4. He is a full head shorter than Brady. I think Rodgers is 6'0 at most and Brady is closer to 6'5.

So besides Brady towering over Rodgers, he also looks like he is 25. Lol

Not sure what Rodgers has going on with the hair and all but he sure seems to be enjoying his time away from the game.
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You really believe Brady is 6'13" but you are holding back, aren't you? :coffee:
 
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Brady's stats from 2001 paint a different picture than the one you're telling Mazz. Yes he had 3 4QCs in there, but he had 189 yards per game, 18 TDs, 12 Ints. He was not exactly 2007 Tom Brady that year.

Of course, the idea that Brady was just a game manager prior to 2007 is also untrue. He led the league in Touchdowns in 2002. He led the league in passing yards in 2005. He was never worse than a top 10 QB in the league, he just wasn't the top QB in the league, and the idea of him as a top 5 was debatable. But he also wasn't just a game manager.
 
Giant Octopodes said:
Brady's stats from 2001 paint a different picture than the one you're telling Mazz. Yes he had 3 4QCs in there, but he had 189 yards per game, 18 TDs, 12 Ints. He was not exactly 2007 Tom Brady that year.

Of course, the idea that Brady was just a game manager prior to 2007 is also untrue. He led the league in Touchdowns in 2002. He led the league in passing yards in 2005. He was never worse than a top 10 QB in the league, he just wasn't the top QB in the league, and the idea of him as a top 5 was debatable. But he also wasn't just a game manager.
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As usual GO, spot on post. That is the point I was trying to get across a few posts back. Brady of 2001, his first year as a starter, was not the same Brady from 2002-2007. I think people misremember just how prolific he was early in his career probably because he was so other worldly from 2007 on when Bill finally got him some legit weapons. He literally carried the Pats to the SB win over the Panthers when the D collapsed in the second half when Rodney left with a broken arm. He did the same thing vs Pitt in the AFCCG in 2004 and he had the flu on top. He was never a traditional "game manager" IMO because he was so damn clutch. A game manager is someone who does not lose the game. That was never Brady. He was a winner right out of the gate.
 
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