Tom Brady/Tampa Off-season thread

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This is awesome. I love Max's complete 180 on Brady. And also Smith's opening few sentences - "how is a 7 time champion not top 3 in the league when he is the defending champ? Brady always closes. No one has ever been better than Brady in that regard."


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPxkdQeUD-o
 
Mazz22 said:
As usual GO, spot on post. That is the point I was trying to get across a few posts back. Brady of 2001, his first year as a starter, was not the same Brady from 2002-2007. I think people misremember just how prolific he was early in his career probably because he was so other worldly from 2007 on when Bill finally got him some legit weapons. He literally carried the Pats to the SB win over the Panthers when the D collapsed in the second half when Rodney left with a broken arm. He did the same thing vs Pitt in the AFCCG in 2004 and he had the flu on top. He was never a traditional "game manager" IMO because he was so damn clutch. A game manager is someone who does not lose the game. That was never Brady. He was a winner right out of the gate.
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Which of course explains the the drop to 199 in the draft and why BB was the only one even remotely interested in taking him.

But I'm sure he would have been a hit in the CFL had BB not given him his shot.
 
Roberto71 said:
Which of course explains the the drop to 199 in the draft and why BB was the only one even remotely interested in taking him.

But I'm sure he would have been a hit in the CFL had BB not given him his shot.
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He was a winner at Michigan too. Go watch his comeback in the Orange Bowl his senior year. It was epic.

The reason he dropped in the draft was because Lloyd at Michigan made him split the starter role his senior year with Hensen who was the local wunderkid and yet Brady saved his bacon in countless games coming off the bench. If Lloyd does not do that he most likely goes in the third or fourth round. That is where he was projected to go in 2000. That is why Bill was quoted as saying seeing him there at #199 represented a lot of value that late which is why he took him. Then of course, Brady did the rest. Leap frogging Bishop and Huard after his rookie year and then jumping Bledsoe in 2001.
 
Mazz22 said:
He was a winner at Michigan too. Go watch his comeback in the Orange Bowl his senior year. It was epic.

The reason he dropped in the draft was because Lloyd at Michigan made him split the starter role his senior year with Hensen who was the local wunderkid and yet Brady saved his bacon in countless games coming off the bench. If Lloyd does not do that he most likely goes in the third or fourth round. That is where he was projected to go in 2000. That is why Bill was quoted as saying seeing him there at #199 represented a lot of value that late which is why he took him. Then of course, Brady did the rest. Leap frogging Bishop and Huard after his rookie year and then jumping Bledsoe in 2001.
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jumping Bledsoe?
 
Giant Octopodes said:
She means upon his return from injury.
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No, because in order for him to "jump" Bledsoe after Bledsoe's return from injury, Bledsoe would have had to have been ahead of Brady at that point in time, and he wasn't. You do deserve credit because throwing a life preserver to a drowning person is always noble. Nice try...😂
 
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Mazz22 said:
He was a winner at Michigan too. Go watch his comeback in the Orange Bowl his senior year. It was epic.

The reason he dropped in the draft was because Lloyd at Michigan made him split the starter role his senior year with Hensen who was the local wunderkid and yet Brady saved his bacon in countless games coming off the bench. If Lloyd does not do that he most likely goes in the third or fourth round. That is where he was projected to go in 2000. That is why Bill was quoted as saying seeing him there at #199 represented a lot of value that late which is why he took him. Then of course, Brady did the rest. Leap frogging Bishop and Huard after his rookie year and then jumping Bledsoe in 2001.
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Lloyd Carr was a thunderdolt when it came to Brady. It was hard to watch it play out 24/7 here in Michigan. Brady was CLEARLY better, but Carr made a promise to Drew's dad that he would play him.

This was a good thing for the Pats, Mazz. Right? :ROFLMAO:
 
Phil Elliott said:
No, because in order for him to "jump" Bledsoe after Bledsoe's return from injury, Bledsoe would have had to have been ahead of Brady at that point in time, and he wasn't. You do deserve credit because throwing a life preserver to a drowning person is always noble. Nice try...😂
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So is your argument that Brady never passed Bledsoe on the depth chart, or that it occurred at a different time? Was it actually Bledsoe at the helm that whole time during the Super Bowl wins? Was it Brady who started 2001 as the Starting QB for the New England Patriots? Man I must have missed something at some point.... :coffee:
 
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Giant Octopodes said:
So is your argument that Brady never passed Bledsoe on the depth chart, or that it occurred at a different time? Was it actually Bledsoe at the helm that whole time during the Super Bowl wins? Was it Brady who started 2001 as the Starting QB for the New England Patriots? Man I must have missed something at some point.... :coffee:
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One could argue that Brady replaced, rather than passed, Bledsoe on the depth chart. Look, it's admittedly semantical and I have always believed that Bill had decided, as Michael Holley wrote in Patriot Reign, before they broke camp that year that Brady was better already than Bledsoe. Drew's injury simply provided BB with an obstruction-free path to making the switch. It was going to happen anyway, far sooner than later. My point in nitpicking was to just shed more light on the constant lies told here by Toni Mazz.
 
Giant Octopodes said:
So is your argument that Brady never passed Bledsoe on the depth chart, or that it occurred at a different time? Was it actually Bledsoe at the helm that whole time during the Super Bowl wins? Was it Brady who started 2001 as the Starting QB for the New England Patriots? Man I must have missed something at some point.... :coffee:
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I understand your confusion. It's a highly nuanced situation.

Cheers, BostonTim
 
Phil Elliott said:
One could argue that Brady replaced, rather than passed, Bledsoe on the depth chart. Look, it's admittedly semantical and I have always believed that Bill had decided, as Michael Holley wrote in Patriot Reign, before they broke camp that year that Brady was better already than Bledsoe. Drew's injury simply provided BB with an obstruction-free path to making the switch. It was going to happen anyway, far sooner than later. My point in nitpicking was to just shed more light on the constant lies told here by Toni Mazz.
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The problem with that is, the statement in question is not a lie. At some point, Brady was #2 on the depth chart, behind Bledsoe, who was #1. At a point later in time, Brady was #1 on the depth chart, and Bledsoe was #2. Call it having replaced, supplanted, jumped, or any other synonymous term you want, one way or another upon Bledsoe's return from injury Brady had passed him. I agree with the assessment of Michael Holley as well, for what it's worth, but to try to somehow twist the basic reality of the situation into something that it's not to "prove" that someone else is constantly lying only serves to achieve the opposite. It makes your positions less credible.
 
Giant Octopodes said:
The problem with that is, the statement in question is not a lie. At some point, Brady was #2 on the depth chart, behind Bledsoe, who was #1. At a point later in time, Brady was #1 on the depth chart, and Bledsoe was #2. Call it having replaced, supplanted, jumped, or any other synonymous term you want, one way or another upon Bledsoe's return from injury Brady had passed him. I agree with the assessment of Michael Holley as well, for what it's worth, but to try to somehow twist the basic reality of the situation into something that it's not to "prove" that someone else is constantly lying only serves to achieve the opposite. It makes your positions less credible.
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I wrote that the replaced, jumped, passed or whatever alternative verb anyone wanted to use was a matter of semantics. As such, It's open to interpretation. I really don't have a firm position on the verb usage or, to be blunt, I don't give a flying f###. And, as far as having to "prove that someone else is constantly lying", I'm not trying to do that at all. I don't care what anyone else's opinion happens to be regarding her habitual lying. I know it happens all the time and it's not up to me to convince you or anyone else that I'm right about it. That's your judgement to make as well as it's up to everyone else to make their own judgements.
 
Phil Elliott said:
No, because in order for him to "jump" Bledsoe after Bledsoe's return from injury, Bledsoe would have had to have been ahead of Brady at that point in time, and he wasn't. You do deserve credit because throwing a life preserver to a drowning person is always noble. Nice try...😂
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Phil Elliott said:
One could argue that Brady replaced, rather than passed, Bledsoe on the depth chart. Look, it's admittedly semantical and I have always believed that Bill had decided, as Michael Holley wrote in Patriot Reign, before they broke camp that year that Brady was better already than Bledsoe. Drew's injury simply provided BB with an obstruction-free path to making the switch. It was going to happen anyway, far sooner than later. My point in nitpicking was to just shed more light on the constant lies told here by Toni Mazz.
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Phil Elliott said:
I wrote that the replaced, jumped, passed or whatever alternative verb anyone wanted to use was a matter of semantics. As such, It's open to interpretation. I really don't have a firm position on the verb usage or, to be blunt, I don't give a flying f###. And, as far as having to "prove that someone else is constantly lying", I'm not trying to do that at all. I don't care what anyone else's opinion happens to be regarding her habitual lying. I know it happens all the time and it's not up to me to convince you or anyone else that I'm right about it. That's your judgement to make as well as it's up to everyone else to make their own judgements.
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Yeah ok then :rolleyes:

Moving on, what do folks think of the callouts from Brady saying players basically shouldn't have to practice during the offseason? Is it him trying to gain a competitive edge by encouraging others to stay home while he's not, or has he just gotten soft and diva-esque, and much like his last year on the Patriots feels such activities are beneath him?
 
Mazz22 said:
He was a winner at Michigan too. Go watch his comeback in the Orange Bowl his senior year. It was epic.

The reason he dropped in the draft was because Lloyd at Michigan made him split the starter role his senior year with Hensen who was the local wunderkid and yet Brady saved his bacon in countless games coming off the bench. If Lloyd does not do that he most likely goes in the third or fourth round. That is where he was projected to go in 2000. That is why Bill was quoted as saying seeing him there at #199 represented a lot of value that late which is why he took him. Then of course, Brady did the rest. Leap frogging Bishop and Huard after his rookie year and then jumping Bledsoe in 2001.
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Yeah, so epic, judged by the stampede to draft him.........................
 
Roberto71 said:
Yeah, so epic, judged by the stampede to draft him.........................
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Lol. You sound like Jete/Colts fans from back in the day.
 
Mazz22 said:
Lol. You sound like Jete/Colts fans from back in the day.
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??? What has it got to do with how great Tom Brady became when he played for the Patriots?

I'm just stating facts here. Tom was taken at 199 in the draft by the only team who showed an interest, the Patriots. I'm not sure what the discussion is here? His position in the draft is not a slight on what he was to become in time, the GOAT.

Your fandom is so intense that you actually seem to get offended over what actually happened! Like Tom dropping to 199 was some kind of anomaly that should never have happened.

It's no criticism of Tom, Mazz. It happened, he wasn't a college star and nobody rated him. It was Bill Bellichick who took the chance, brought him here, gave him his shot, Bill had the guts to start him, put him into a team with a savage defense and the rest is history.
 
Roberto71 said:
??? What has it got to do with how great Tom Brady became when he played for the Patriots?

I'm just stating facts here. Tom was taken at 199 in the draft by the only team who showed an interest, the Patriots. I'm not sure what the discussion is here? His position in the draft is not a slight on what he was to become in time, the GOAT.

Your fandom is so intense that you actually seem to get offended over what actually happened! Like Tom dropping to 199 was some kind of anomaly that should never have happened.

It's no criticism of Tom, Mazz. It happened, he wasn't a college star and nobody rated him. It was Bill Bellichick who took the chance, brought him here, gave him his shot, Bill had the guts to start him, put him into a team with a savage defense and the rest is history.
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Giant Octopodes said:
Yeah ok then :rolleyes:

Moving on, what do folks think of the callouts from Brady saying players basically shouldn't have to practice during the offseason? Is it him trying to gain a competitive edge by encouraging others to stay home while he's not, or has he just gotten soft and diva-esque, and much like his last year on the Patriots feels such activities are beneath him?
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I think for Brady he has his routine and trainer as do so many other athletes not just in football but in all of sports. I think this is the way most sports are heading because training is so specific these days with so many options for diet, exercise, etc. Athletes are also maniacal about their bodies like never before so I see Brady as being the spokesman because he said for years before he met Alex he was doing the wrong things for his body and for sustained excellence and recovery. I think he wants to see all players have the freedom to be able to train they want in the off-season.
 
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