2024 NFL Combine

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chevss454 said:
Lol. That has a lot to do with whether a guy can play or not!!
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It has to do with what kind of guy it is. Are you there to be dined or there to learn and make an impression? Kind of the same as the combine as a whole.

It takes the complete package. Ability. Work ethic. Professionalism.

I live in a functional global corporate world and when I am making decisions these "side" impressions count. Maybe I am old school? Yes, for sure I am.
 
Chop Robinson's 4.48 from the EDGE position beats every Patriots receiver on the roster last year, except for Thornton. :coffee:
 
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HSanders said:
that latu guy from ucla looks smooooth in his drilld. good bend.
www.nfl.com

Laiatu Latu Draft and Combine Prospect Profile | NFL.com

All Combine and Draft-Related Analysis, News, Video, and Biographical Information for Laiatu Latu
www.nfl.com www.nfl.com
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I heard Pat Kirwan talking about him today. Pat likes him but says he needs a go to move other than his swim move bc OTs will jam his armpit to straighten him
up and remove his leverage. He said he thinks Latu will be good but needs the wt room to build more strength plus time and coaching to reach his potential.
Thinks he's a good prospect.
 
aloyouis said:
It has to do with what kind of guy it is. Are you there to be dined or there to learn and make an impression? Kind of the same as the combine as a whole.

It takes the complete package. Ability. Work ethic. Professionalism.

I live in a functional global corporate world and when I am making decisions these "side" impressions count. Maybe I am old school? Yes, for sure I am.
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Absolutely. Their interviews and what coaches, teammates and others say about him is paramount for character analysis.
 
mhj blew off an 8:20 am combine speaking engagement and c williams is refusing to do the medicals at the combine,only for each team IF he accepts a visit.
ok....now i'm really wanting these guys to just be disinvited and let people who will do some stuff be invited instead. i don't gaf about "oh this is the new generation" shit. enough is enough. basic respect for the process is a must if you accept the invite.
 
HSanders said:
mhj blew off an 8:20 am combine speaking engagement and c williams is refusing to do the medicals at the combine,only for each team IF he accepts a visit.
ok....now i'm really wanting these guys to just be disinvited and let people who will do some stuff be invited instead. i don't gaf about "oh this is the new generation" shit. enough is enough. basic respect for the process is a must if you accept the invite.
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I can't speak about MHJ's issue bc I don't know why he blew it off but refusing a medical raises a red flag immediately. So many players are found to have issues they didn't
even know about. These medical exams are for their own good as well to give teams comfort in knowing a guy is healthy and fit for football. These exams are extensive. A team of doctors
goes over each player. The player is examined by 8 different doctors all doing the exact same exam one after the other. I remember Julio Jones' case. He got to the 5th doctor
before a fractured 4th metatarsal bone was diagnosed. He had played through his last year at Alabama with an aching foot only to find out it was broken. This year Kool-Aid McKinstry
found out he had a fractured foot. Montez Sweat was diagnosed with a previously unknown congenital heart problem which was taken care of and allowed him to be cleared
before the draft. Carolina Panther Star Lotulelei was diagnosed with a heart problem at the 2013 NFL. There are too many others to name individually. These exams are extensive and it's understandable that players don't like them but they are for the player's own good.

I can't think of any other player who was allowed to attend the Combine after declining the medicals. Caleb has a red dot on his scouting report automatically until he's cleared to play.
 
HSanders said:
mhj blew off an 8:20 am combine speaking engagement and c williams is refusing to do the medicals at the combine,only for each team IF he accepts a visit.
ok....now i'm really wanting these guys to just be disinvited and let people who will do some stuff be invited instead. i don't gaf about "oh this is the new generation" shit. enough is enough. basic respect for the process is a must if you accept the invite.
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Yup
 
HSanders said:
mhj blew off an 8:20 am combine speaking engagement and c williams is refusing to do the medicals at the combine,only for each team IF he accepts a visit.
ok....now i'm really wanting these guys to just be disinvited and let people who will do some stuff be invited instead. i don't gaf about "oh this is the new generation" shit. enough is enough. basic respect for the process is a must if you accept the invite.
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I’ve got such a grudge against the entitled “blue chippers” the current system has created I don’t even want to see them here. Or anywhere for that matter. Fuck those guys.
I’d vastly prefer a later round guy who was forced to do it the right way. I’d bet the farm these top tier guys are gonna flop. Hard.
 
the freaking cbs look like wrs in the gauntlet drill. hands catches,smooth striding,etc. omg.
 
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HSanders said:
the freaking cbs look like wrs in the gauntlet drill. hands vayches,smooth striding,etc. omg.
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Yeah noticed that too. Shit, with the 2nd round pick, grab an elite man corner if one is available. Paired with Gonzo...yikes.
 
Hawg73 said:
I think the 40 is the worst drill in the entire process. Nobody runs in a straight line in a football game, nor do receivers run sideline
to sideline catching balls from both sides, but that is where we are at. The combine is deathly boring and, I think, antiquated, but
I'll probably watch way more of it than I should because I'm afraid I'll miss something. FOMO.




View: https://youtu.be/u6mah_XxFDQ?si=0ynXfNbgSdbLCJtK
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I think the wrong part of the 40 gets emphasized- especially on message boards. Many people think faster 40 equals better player potential - that is not true. There are many other measurable and non measurable things to look at. So, a great speed does not indicate a great player.

However, the inverse has significant meaning. Most positions do have a 40 minimum unless you have some other quality that is truly exceptional. Very few RB’s, without exception strength of vision, can run a 4.7 and be successful in the nfl. Wr’s also have some cut offs close to 4.65-4.7, although slot guys can be slower.

So, I think if the 40 is thought of more about eliminating people than elevating them, it is pretty use metric
 
rabidfireweasel said:
I think the wrong part of the 40 gets emphasized- especially on message boards. Many people think faster 40 equals better player potential - that is not true. There are many other measurable and non measurable things to look at. So, a great speed does not indicate a great player.

However, the inverse has significant meaning. Most positions do have a 40 minimum unless you have some other quality that is truly exceptional. Very few RB’s, without exception strength of vision, can run a 4.7 and be successful in the nfl. Wr’s also have some cut offs close to 4.65-4.7, although slot guys can be slower.

So, I think if the 40 is thought of more about eliminating people than elevating them, it is pretty use metric
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Pretty well said, but if the combine created a speed drill (such as the one I suggested where you had to cut and jump, etc.) wouldn't that
be more relevant than a drill that measures what almost never happens in a football game? and begins from a stance hijacked from a different
sport? I mean, people can compare any kind of drill they want and the 40 is not completely useless, but a much better tool than
that could easily be developed for measuring football-relevant speed. You could still have threshold cutoffs and it would probably be a lot
more interesting to watch. It could hardly be less interesting than it is now.

As an added bonus, it'd be one hell of a lot harder to simulate a more complex course to practice on. You might have a lot fewer instances of guys boosting
their draft profile artificially by drilling for months as a track sprinter and sometimes/fairly often being unable to utilize that apparent speed to help their
team win games.

I mean, I've heard the 40 is stupid dozens of times by smarter football people than me. So why don't they change it? You might end up
with fewer busts like John Ross as a result. A great sprinter who couldn't really play tackle football, but fortied himself into both legend and a ninth
overall selection contract.

Maybe the league is afraid to lose the ability to overlay famous 40s from the past versus this year's guys, which can be amusing in small doses.
 
Chase Daniels per the host of nflta has had conversations with people in indy who have been around caleb williams. daniels said on nflta yesterday that people were expecting him to be better on the board than he was.
 
Hawg73 said:
Pretty well said, but if the combine created a speed drill (such as the one I suggested where you had to cut and jump, etc.) wouldn't that
be more relevant than a drill that measures what almost never happens in a football game? and begins from a stance hijacked from a different
sport? I mean, people can compare any kind of drill they want and the 40 is not completely useless, but a much better tool than
that could easily be developed for measuring football-relevant speed. You could still have threshold cutoffs and it would probably be a lot
more interesting to watch. It could hardly be less interesting than it is now.

As an added bonus, it'd be one hell of a lot harder to simulate a more complex course to practice on. You might have a lot fewer instances of guys boosting
their draft profile artificially by drilling for months as a track sprinter and sometimes/fairly often being unable to utilize that apparent speed to help their
team win games.

I mean, I've heard the 40 is stupid dozens of times by smarter football people than me. So why don't they change it? You might end up
with fewer busts like John Ross as a result. A great sprinter who couldn't really play tackle football, but fortied himself into both legend and a ninth
overall selection contract.

Maybe the league is afraid to lose the ability to overlay famous 40s from the past versus this year's guys, which can be amusing in small doses.
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I think that is what the 3-cone, 20 and 60 yd shuttle drills are designed to do. Pro evaluators know the difference between 40 speed and playing speed and put far more stock
in playing speed on tape than the 40. My scout friends tell me 40 times are used only for validation of what they see on tape. If a guy runs slower than expected they go back to the tape to make sure their evaluation holds up. If a guy runs faster than expected, it's a bonus but doesn't usually change an evaluation or grade.

I did a study 4 years ago that showed 6 of the top 10 WRs in the league in 2020 ran 4.5 or slower when tested. The slowest time was Keenan Allen's 4.71 but he made up for lack of speed
with supreme route running skills and great hands. The other WRs over 4.5 were Mike Evans, Hopkins, Davante Adams, Michael Thomas and Jarvis Landry. There was much more to that
study but for brevity I concluded that raw speed was far less important than controlled speed. And receiver skill always trumps speed.

But, put controlled speed and skill into 1 package and you have a star - Tyreek Hill, Calvin Jones and Julio Jones. MHJ?

I also learned that very few WRs who ran fast (less than 4.4) had much success in the NFL. Aaron Dobson and Tyquan Thornton fit in here. (I have theories why that's true)
 
chevss454 said:
I heard Pat Kirwan talking about him today. Pat likes him but says he needs a go to move other than his swim move bc OTs will jam his armpit to straighten him
up and remove his leverage. He said he thinks Latu will be good but needs the wt room to build more strength plus time and coaching to reach his potential.
Thinks he's a good prospect.
Click to expand...

Every draft I have a certain amount of guys that I've seen, maybe 15 or 20 that I just have no doubts will be solid NFL players, at least, and their workout
numbers don't affect that impression much at all. I try to follow their careers just to see if I was right. Latu will be really good before long.

I watched a fair amount of UCLA last year and he just gets involved in every part of playing D and isn't just a one-trick pass rusher. He's
an AOTF prospect. All over the field. I love Pat and think he's one of the best old-school football minds, but I don't really get that comment from him. I
thought Latu has an unusual array of moves for a college kid and dominates with his hands. He's on the light side, but can go over, around or right through
his opponent. Sometimes the scale doesn't tell the whole story,

It's going to sound like a weird comp, but I felt a similar way about Andrew Van Ginkel. He had a strange-looking body, gawky, tall and too skinny for an NFL
linebacker, but he was AOTF every time I watched Wisconsin. I think he ended up a day three pick, but he added some muscle and will be making
some money for himself this off-season. I'd like to see us sign him as an FA. Underrated pass rusher who has improved as an all-around impact player, is
just entering his prime years, would help fill a need and won't break the bank.
 
chevss454 said:
I think that is what the 3-cone, 20 and 60 yd shuttle drills are designed to do. Pro evaluators know the difference between 40 speed and playing speed and put far more stock
in playing speed on tape than the 40. My scout friends tell me 40 times are used only for validation of what they see on tape. If a guy runs slower than expected they go back to the tape to make sure their evaluation holds up. If a guy runs faster than expected, it's a bonus but doesn't usually change an evaluation or grade.

I did a study 4 years ago that showed 6 of the top 10 WRs in the league in 2020 ran 4.5 or slower when tested. The slowest time was Keenan Allen's 4.71 but he made up for lack of speed
with supreme route running skills and great hands. The other WRs over 4.5 were Mike Evans, Hopkins, Davante Adams, Michael Thomas and Jarvis Landry. There was much more to that
study but for brevity I concluded that raw speed was far less important than controlled speed. And receiver skill always trumps speed.

But, put controlled speed and skill into 1 package and you have a star - Tyreek Hill, Calvin Jones and Julio Jones. MHJ?

I also learned that very few WRs who ran fast (less than 4.4) had much success in the NFL. Aaron Dobson and Tyquan Thornton fit in here. (I have theories why that's true)
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Great post.

I'm going to drop the "Parkour speed test" idea, but at least I got it out of my system. ;)

I'm going to be really curious to see how MHJ turns out. I feel like he's definitely going to be good, but I'm wondering if he doesn't become more
Keyshawn Johnson good than Calvin Johnson great. Like he doesn't have any discernable weaknesses, but might not really have a combo of
traits that will make him dominant in the NFL like many assume. There are some draft people that are speculating that he might not even be a sure thing to be
the top WR, but you hear all kinds of crazy shit in the run-up to the draft.

He'd certainly be light years better than anybody we've had since Randy, but I'd prefer to address protection and QB earlier and it really
looks like there should be some good WRs left by that 68th pick.

I'd LOVE to fix all 3 of the big needs, but feel like that might be a stretch in one draft.
 
Hawg73 said:
Every draft I have a certain amount of guys that I've seen, maybe 15 or 20 that I just have no doubts will be solid NFL players, at least, and their workout
numbers don't affect that impression much at all. I try to follow their careers just to see if I was right. Latu will be really good before long.

I watched a fair amount of UCLA last year and he just gets involved in every part of playing D and isn't just a one-trick pass rusher. He's
an AOTF prospect. All over the field. I love Pat and think he's one of the best old-school football minds, but I don't really get that comment from him. I
thought Latu has an unusual array of moves for a college kid and dominates with his hands. He's on the light side, but can go over, around or right through
his opponent. Sometimes the scale doesn't tell the whole story,

It's going to sound like a weird comp, but I felt a similar way about Andrew Van Ginkel. He had a strange-looking body, gawky, tall and too skinny for an NFL
linebacker, but he was AOTF every time I watched Wisconsin. I think he ended up a day three pick, but he added some muscle and will be making
some money for himself this off-season. I'd like to see us sign him as an FA. Underrated pass rusher who has improved as an all-around impact player, is
just entering his prime years, would help fill a need and won't break the bank.
Click to expand...

FTR, Pat did mention his other moves but felt like his go to move was swim. He thought he should choose another move for his go to. Pat said he likes the kid.
 
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