2012 Training Camp Thread

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MaineMan said:
White (or Kouts) vs. Larsen? Larsen was an LB in college and through his first two years as a pro. If it comes down to using Larsen as an emergency LB in place of White (or Kouts), how much worse could he be?
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Thanks, MM. I had completely forgotten that little tidbit of info. & that extra versatility might just win Larsen a job.

Now, can you come up with something to favor Bolden? popcorn
 
Karen Guregian has a feel good story about Cunningham and reminds us that he played 40 front DE at Florida. Unfortunately, she doesn't get into why he lost his focus last year.

Heading into camp, not many projected him to make the team, given his regression last year to the point of being a healthy scratch in several games. After a so-so rookie year, Cunningham looked out of place and out of sorts during training camp last year, then suffered a groin injury during the preseason. He played in nine games, then was put on injured reserve on Dec. 10 with a hamstring injury.
He indicated yesterday it was a matter of rehabbing that injury, getting both legs strong and getting himself re-focused.
“I worked hard in the off season to get better. I feel like it’s going the right way. I’m out here now feeling good,” Cunningham said. “I feel like everything else is in the past . . . you just learn from it. You build on it and get better.”
The Pats had envisioned Cunningham to be an edge rusher as an outside linebacker in their 3-4 scheme, which is the base defense they played when they drafted him. Cunningham played defensive end in Florida’s 4-3 defense, so he’s more comfortable with the four-man front the Pats appear to be using more of these days.
Was it gratifying for Cunningham to see his hard work pay off, both with the award and an early bump up to the first team?
“It’s still early in training camp, everyone’s fighting to get better, but that’s the goal,” Cunningham said. “Do the hard work during the offseason, so during the season it gets easy.”
Given it’s his third year, the assumption is this is make-or-break time for Cunningham.
“Every year is make-or-break year for everybody, not (just) me individually,” he said. “You have to go out there and show what you got, and be the best player you can be.”
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http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/...Patriots+-+Patriots+&+NFL+-+BostonHerald.com)
 
Jamey Richard was put on IR.
The G/C left New England's July 29 practice with a concussion -- not the first of his career. Richard's season is officially over.
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Question: When a player is put on IR, they still collect their salary, correct? And it still counts against the cap? If so, why not cut a player like this, (cold blooded, I know) to save cap space? Or do they only get paid a part of their salary when on IR?
 
grog said:
Question: When a player is put on IR, they still collect their salary, correct? And it still counts against the cap? If so, why not cut a player like this, (cold blooded, I know) to save cap space? Or do they only get paid a part of their salary when on IR?
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If they're injured while performing some sort of service as part of their job, they are entitled to get their full salary and benefits. If it's a non-football injury that takes them out of their job, there's language in the CBA that gives the employer the right to not compensate.
 
grog said:
Question: When a player is put on IR, they still collect their salary, correct? And it still counts against the cap? If so, why not cut a player like this, (cold blooded, I know) to save cap space? Or do they only get paid a part of their salary when on IR?
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http://www.wisegeek.com/in-football-what-is-injured-reserve.htm

Injured Players' Status and Salaries

Players usually do not like to be placed on injured reserve. For many players, the main reason for this is because it prevents them from playing for the rest of the season. Some players might believe that they could play again that season after recovering from their injuries, but being placed on injured reserve makes that impossible. A player cannot refuse to go on IR, because the team controls his status within the league as long as it continues to pay him according to his contract.
Many players also make less money if they are put on the IR list, which is sometimes referred to as the reserve/injured list. Players often agree to contracts that include reduced salaries if they go on IR. Often called split salaries, they usually are between 40 percent and 70 percent of the players' normal salaries. Not all contracts include reduced salaries for players who are put on IR. The Collective Bargaining Agreement between the NFL and the NFL Players Association (NFLPA) also sets minimum amounts for players' split salaries.
 
Thanks guys. That is interesting about the split salaries. Hopefully we don't have too many IR candidates in preseason, but I did wonder about the impact on the salary cap.
 
With a guy like Richard I wouldn't be surprised to see him released with an injury settlement. That would allow him to play elsewhere when he's healthy and save the Patriots some money.
 
grog said:
Thanks guys. That is interesting about the split salaries. Hopefully we don't have too many IR candidates in preseason, but I did wonder about the impact on the salary cap.
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I'm guessing that the Pats organization pays out the full salary. Reducing/splitting would only serve to cause resentment, and players remember how teams have treated them when it comes time to renegotiate contracts.
 
PatsFanLisa said:
I'm guessing that the Pats organization pays out the full salary. Reducing/splitting would only serve to cause resentment, and players remember how teams have treated them when it comes time to renegotiate contracts.
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It probably has more to do with the contract leverage held by the player. I'd imagine at least half of the guys in camp right now have split salaries built in. It is pretty much leaguewide MO, so very little resentment would be incurred.
 
AllWorldTE said:
Sorry this so late.

The night practice format was the same one we've been seeing. Pre-practice was already underway when they opened the gates. Pre-practice is a walk-thru affair and, as the public address announcer gravely intoned last night, is "an important part of practice that acts as a bridge between class room work and full-speed practice." Walk-thrus included a lengthy punt protection period during which four gunners got work. Two gunners repped from the LOS and two from a position closer to the goaline where they worked on bracketing the returner to kill the ball out side the EZ.

While this was going on, the QBs worked on the exchange and various footwork calls with the centers. The thirds took the field for a team red zone walk-thru period directed by Mallett followed by the ones & twos having their own team Red Zone period.

Dynamic stretch again was the start of regular practice followed by positional stretch. Lisa noted that Branch was off by himself during stretch looking down in the dumps. Whether he's fighting an injury, or he's the odd man out, he doesn't look like himself out there. He's not working with the top groups and isn't seeing time with Mallett's group either. I've never seen anyone go through the motions of stretch more the Vince. He barely takes part. He's probably not in danger of being benched anytime soon because of it.

Individual drills followed. As always the QBs warmed-up followed by throwing their route tree. A wrinkle today included the QBs scrambling away from heat and avoiding two bags thrown high and low at them rather than one.

The OL did stance and starts and bag and board drills where they work on drive blocks against a look guy holding a bag the length of a board which forces them to maintain a wide base.

The TEs and RBs worked a blaster drill where they caught a pass, turned north/south and had to drive through a four man blaster built with look guys holding shields.

At the start of indi, most of the LBs and DBs were working a punt protection drill with O'Brien on the side line. Mayo, Spikes and Lavaios stood by with Johnson during this period while the DL worked get-offs on air and one gap get-offs against the stand-up bags. Four free CBs did some read work.

The defense worked a circuit made up of four stations as usual. Today they did their usual stack & shed, low tackle, turn over drill and a gap tackling drill that everyone who ever played high school ball remembers fondly. The drill is conducted along a row of bags used to set gaps. The ball carrier picks a hole and the tackler has to stay with him, stay square and fill to make the tackle.

The RBs snuck in a read cut drill with Ivan Fears in the north end zone.

The QBs/WRs then worked one on ones against the CBs in man coverage in the south red zone. Welker was working his signature slide route exclusively. For anyone who is wondering, he's still uncoverable at it by anyone not named Revis. He beat Arrington and Cole handily for touchdowns using the route during the period. The beauty of the route is Welker's ability to stack the DB off his initial release using leverage to put himself between the defender and the ball coupled with Brady's timing and precision on the throw make the route virtually undefendable when properly executed. Arrington looked good covering Britt along the end line during this period.

As good as Dowling looked against Lloyd in one on ones, he got burned in this period by Holly on an in-cut.

The defensive line worked a disengage/tackling drill where they took on a look OL, struck, separated, and disengaged to wrap up a look ball carrier.

The backers worked a pattern read drill where they practiced jamming and passing the TE off to a second level from a reduced front. The jamming LB was aligned on the TE, jammed and passed him off followed by picking up a full back releasing into the flat. The ILB picked up the TE and covered him or covered and passed him off to pick-up an inside breaking receiver. The ball boy the QBs throw their tree to was the receiver in the drill. They also ran the drill against a slot formation as well.

While this was going on, Hoyer was in the other red zone working with the TEs who were practicing using their pads to get open against LBs and Safeties jamming them on the second level.

The next period featured Hoyer and Mallet running full back field with the backs in the north end zone while Brady was having his shoe played with by the trainers.

The TE's and O tackles worked combo drills on the Pats' sideline while the centers and guards worked their combos in the corner of the north end zone.

The RBs and Mallett worked a read blitz drill against the DBs which combined the RBs picking up DB blitzes (which they were poor at) and the DBs picking up backs releasing from the backfield which they were inconsistent at. Ridley smoked Dowling on a circle route and Mallett missed a few throws during this period.

Brady and Hoyer were at the other end with the TEs working a live drill against the backers. Lavaious was aligned on the TEs were he jammed them after which another backer picked them up in man coverage. You can guess which TEs were the toughest to cover. Hightower got beat by Tyler Urban in the back corner of the EZ. He later covered him well on the front line breaking up a low ball throw.

Half line run game followed. The first scrum took place here with Wendell and Forsten getting at it. Forsen took a lap for his trouble. This was the period where Hightower exploded on Larsen twice. Ridley missed a read on outside zone here as well and Gronk and Thomas took their lap.

Brady and Mallet worked routes on air in the north red zone during this period.

Another punt protection period followed.

Pass rush one on ones took center stage afterward which has been pretty well documented while a patterns on air went on at the other end of the field and the back seven worked a base pass cover drill. Little BB was the look QB during this drill.

A full team period followed where scripted field plays were followed by red zone work. Hightower again put the hurt on Larsen and also on Thomas during this period, Bolden has his fantastic cut for a TD. Overall, the offense had the upper hand during this period which was pretty chippy. This was the period where Solder and Spikes went at it. There were several reps where the defense had to adjust to motions and trades are were slow doing so, finding themselves out of position more than once. Fletch went off-sides on an inside blitz and took a lap here.

The offense rolled out an offensive skill group made up of Brady, Woody, Stallworth, Welk, AHern and Gronk. Good luck.

Open field tackling was next with the offense having the upper hand. Hightower did have a nice stop during this period.

They snuck in a kick-off return period following open field tackling followed by more team against the nickel.

More patterns on air in the red zone, OL on kick steps and strikes, DL on individual pass rush moves, and LBs on pattern recognition.

A Skelly period on one end while the OL had a down period was next.

The Skelly continued and the OL/DL worked two on two pass rush stunts with the Defense having the upper hand today.

Another red zone team period followed with the defense stouter against the run here. This was mostly a nickel period although there was some base played. Mallet made the throw of the day on his TD.

Another punt protection period followed by a two minute team period finished things off.

I didn't make today's practice but I may be there Friday. I'm liking the progress of the defense so far. This offense is really challenging them so far and they appear to be responding.
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AWTE......amazing reports. Can't wait to read your latest.
I'd love to get your an opinion on Cannon and if you feel he can be a servicable NFL RT. Last year, I never saw enough lateral movement from him to believe tackle was an option. But depending on Volmer's status, Cannon may become the default starter.
 
Borg said:
AWTE......amazing reports. Can't wait to read your latest.
I'd love to get your an opinion on Cannon and if you feel he can be a servicable NFL RT. Last year, I never saw enough lateral movement from him to believe tackle was an option. But depending on Volmer's status, Cannon may become the default starter.
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Thanks. I think Canon can be serviceable at RT. He saw plenty of time there last season and performed well enough to let the offense roll along. He had occasional missed assignments of course. I'd be worried about him against top speed rushers. He would need some help either from the TEs or the backs. He's going to see a lot of action over the next couple weeks so we'll have a pretty good handle on him.
 
Awesome stuff, AWTE. Many thanks.

Hate to ask but there isn't much being reported on Fanene and Bequette. Do you have any input on these two?
 
So, which RB is going to pull up with a nasty hammy with an indeterminate recovery time, landing him on PUP?

Because unless BB or Ivan get fed up with Bolden bouncing outside too much and the don't see progress, I can't see him getting cut.

Was talking to a friend who has been to 3 sessions and he says that the kid is electric. He said the the sarpness of his cuts and decision making in traffic reminds him of Curtis Martin, but with a less power, more git, and more suddenness. That it looks like he doesn't trust himself up the middle, but when he's done it he's shown good skills. Said he gets the impression that he knows his strengths are on the outside and when he can get into a broken field, and that he's looking for chances to show that instead of running the play as designed.

For reference, he coaches AAA (or whatever, I forget their system but I mean D-1) football in Virginia, which is no small matter. He's a QB and DB coach and heir apparent to the OC, so I'd rate him as pretty credible relative to your average camp-goer.
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So, which RB is going to pull up with a nasty hammy with an indeterminate recovery time, landing him on PUP?
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None, because once you've practiced you can no longer be placed on PUP. :poke:

He could go on IR, though.
 
Cunningham having a great camp. I just hope he can saw up in the preseason games. so far he been nothing but a injury prone second round bust. He could help out the pass rush with his speed off the edge.
 
German_Patriot said:
None. All participated in camp, so they can't go on PUP. And I wouldn't want to waste that one IR/returns-spot on a 4th RB.
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Question: Anyone know if, when you place guys on IR, do you have to designate the one guy you hope to bring back, or is it a "wildcard" kind of option to be used once wherever you later determine it best fits?


Cheers, BostonTim
 
BostonTim said:
Question: Anyone know if, when you place guys on IR, do you have to designate the one guy you hope to bring back, or is it a "wildcard" kind of option to be used once wherever you later determine it best fits?


Cheers, BostonTim
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Wildcard.
 
Pneumonic said:
Awesome stuff, AWTE. Many thanks.

Hate to ask but there isn't much being reported on Fanene and Bequette. Do you have any input on these two?
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Fanene was out the days I focused on the defense but based on other reports and what I picked-up in passing, he can line up at the 3 tech and gain penetration against zones and gets into the pocket consistently on the pass rush. These are great skills to have in the defense the Pats are working right now. He'll probably be a bigger factor against teams like the Bills who spread it out and run one back zone schemes all day than the power teams like the Jets who are looking to double 3 techs. In those games, he'll be more of a passing down option.

Bequette is pretty inconsistent right now. For every nice play he makes, there's another where his dick gets knocked in the dirt. He has shown ability to set the edge and disrupt the run game and has flashed pass rush ability but he gets overpowered easily is he's not perfect. A guy like Jones may get caught but he can often make up for it where Bequette can't right now. He has to get stronger and his initial technique heeds to be more consistent to keep him out of early trouble he can't get out of.
 
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