2024 Draft discussion ONLY-please.

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Grogan said:
Oh I've heard the term used by the media plenty because it gets people to read and listen to their next batch of stories. I can't think of an instance of a coach or professional evaluateator using it to describe their evaluation process. Nevertheless that wasn't really my point. I'll put it this way, what has Jj Mccarthy done in the last two months to all of a sudden have an "it factor ", that's propelled him from the mid rounds to now some projecting him into the top 10? Or, in contrast, what did a guy like Maye do in the last few months to go from a consensus top 5, to possibly fall out the top 10 all together? If I have to spell it out for you, nothing, they did nothing. It's all media bullshit to keeping people reading and doing their little mock drafts.
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JHC, you keep talking about media evaluations. I'm not going by that. A pro football scouting dept should not be going by that.
Ok, instead of your long winded rants, list YOUR top 4 QB'S in this class, where you would draft them, and why.
Please share those non-media driven evaluations with us. I'm eager to learn.
 
ParanoidPatriot said:
JHC, you keep talking about media evaluations. I'm not going by that. A pro football scouting dept should not be going by that.
Ok, instead of your long winded rants, list YOUR top 4 QB'S in this class, where you would draft them, and why.
Please share those non-media driven evaluations with us. I'm eager to learn.
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If you're not grasping what I'm saying I really don't know what to tell you. It's not that complicated, and I'm honestly not trying to be insulting. I'm not saying I hold a crystal ball on these players, what I'm saying is the media's goal isn't evaluation, it's stories, headlines, air time. That's how you get guys like JJ Maccarthy going from 4th round after thought to top 10 pick in two months without a single thing in their initial evaluation changing. We are not privy to the real information these teams are using in their evaluations, the things beyond 40 times and shuttle drills. Then there's the misinformation, that teams leak out to try and manipulate who falls and who rises. Look, if you want think that somehow JJ Maccarthy is now worth a top 10 pick because some team said he interviewed well, or flipside that all of a sudden Drake Maye is a bust because someone said his foot work is bad, I'd go back to the beginning and look at what they've proven on the field and against who. The rest is noise generated to sell an event.
 
One OT prospect that intrigues me is Kiran Amegadjie of Yale. At 6-5 321 he is very athletic. However he probably won't much of a factor in his 1st year, but could make a big jump after a year of NFL coaching and going against NFL players in practice.
 
Grogan said:
It really is something, and I don’t think many understand that what Mel Kipper and the othe media heads do is not what real team scouts and evaluators do, or at least the good ones. It's pretty much stock watch, who's betting what stock goes up or down and they can force the narrative by how many stories they write not because they learned anything new about a prospect. They are selling an event and need to create stories to write, we can only hope that our GM is using sound evaluation tools to make the pick and not media noise. In the case of Maye, it reminds me alot of Justin Herbert, who went into the pre draft thought to be one of the top two prospects at QB and by the time draft day came he could apparently no longer read defenses, was not very mobile and would take years to develop if at all. Now I'm not going to pretend I know what Maye will be, but you have to be suspect of the drastic change in narrative.
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It's kind of like a Cold war between 32 countries. You have intelligence agencies in each running disinformation campaigns and you have media people eager to get in on the fun by
convincing readers whatever best suits their needs at the time, which is usually to generate hits but sometimes can be traded with "operatives" in order to get information or
special access. The whole thing isn't, ummmm......real.

Drake Maye is a great example of what goes on, but the top 3 QBs have all gone through similar smokescreens and smear tactics. And there are almost 6 weeks yet to go and this is when things
really get ratcheted up and the rumors start flying. It's fun and interesting, but you have to take it all with a grain.
 
king of kings said:
I still prefer we select Harrison Jr. A QB best friend is a game changing WR. Trade the pick to get more assets. Select ND Alt . Draft Penix Jr & WR in 2nd.
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A stud WR is useless without a top-10 QB. Minnesota has WR Justin Jefferson but lost QB Kirk Cousins to free agency. Does QB Sam Darnold throwing to WR Justin Jefferson concern any Vikes' opponent?
 
Peachhead said:
A stud WR is useless without a top-10 QB. Minnesota has WR Justin Jefferson but lost QB Kirk Cousins to free agency. Does QB Sam Darnold throwing to WR Justin Jefferson concern any Vikes' opponent?
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Agreed, it's comical how so few understand this. Somehow 1st round is too risky to take a QB, MHJ is a sure thing, and it's easy to find a 2nd round QB. 😆
 
Grogan said:
Agreed, it's comical how so few understand this. Somehow 1st round is too risky to take a QB, MHJ is a sure thing, and it's easy to find a 2nd round QB. 😆
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Apparently the Vikes understand this too. They just traded for #23 and everyone anticipates they will try to package #11, #23 and then some to move to the top-5 for a QB.
 
ParanoidPatriot said:
One OT prospect that intrigues me is Kiran Amegadjie of Yale. At 6-5 321 he is very athletic. However he probably won't much of a factor in his 1st year, but could make a big jump after a year of NFL coaching and going against NFL players in practice.
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Should be available in the 3rd round, wouldn't be a bad pick at all.
 
ParanoidPatriot said:
When people say we need to draft "a QB" in the first round, you might find this interesting. This does not include last years class but over the years drafting "a QB" has not worked out very well. BTW, I was all in on Mac months before the draft and was pumped when we drafted him.

NFL Draft 2023: Regrading each first-round QB pick in the last 15 years, from Trevor Lawrence to Joe Flacco
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So was pretty much everyone. Although the big difference is, at 15, you sort of had to take whomever was left. It was Jones in this case, but could just as easily have been Trey Lance.

You're absolutely right though, which is why I'm still on the 'take Harrison at 3' bus, which seems to have moved on from here. I think the Patriots will still be bad next year, and I also think that Quinn Ewers or Shadeur Sanders isn't all that different from Bo Nix or Michael Penix. So why force it?
 
Peachhead said:
A stud WR is useless without a top-10 QB. Minnesota has WR Justin Jefferson but lost QB Kirk Cousins to free agency. Does QB Sam Darnold throwing to WR Justin Jefferson concern any Vikes' opponent?
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Peachhead said:
Apparently the Vikes understand this too. They just traded for #23 and everyone anticipates they will try to package #11, #23 and then some to move to the top-5 for a QB.
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Minn is in a drastically different position than we are....they built the team, including the WR, then lost their QB....they are desperate to replace him. We have lots of holes to fill, two of the three QBs available aren't close to can't miss prospects, so it is a valid team building strategy to go another way.

We are in the first offseason of a multiple year rebuild, so the biggest benefit of a rookie QB contract will be wasted while building the rest of the team. (And yes I mean team, the D will look alot different in a year or two.)
 
Peachhead said:
Apparently the Vikes understand this too. They just traded for #23 and everyone anticipates they will try to package #11, #23 and then some to move to the top-5 for a QB.
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So how about 3 + a pick for JJefferson, 11 and 23? That trade deserves serious consideration if our FO isn't crazy about the QB available at 3. Then again, maybe they want pick 2.
 
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chevss454 said:
So how about 3 for JJefferson, 11 and 23? That trade deserves serious consideration if our FO isn't crazy about the QB available at 3. Then again, maybe they want pick 2.
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I would even do 3 for 11 and Jefferson, let them keep 23.
 
Speaking of the top QBs in the draft, a few weeks ago Mike Lombardi said the top rankings will become totally different by draft day.


And with a quick Google search I can show you where ML said Stroud wouldn't work because he's not coachable.
 
I enjoy looking at all the prospects of whom we might get like a kid with the Sears catalog at Christmas (it's an age reference deal ).But the reality of our draft is so murky ,we look at needs , wants , who's available and ability to get them but then ,there stands the elephant !.We are'nt on a rudderless ship , we're bailing in the boiler room of Titanic .This whole " burn the house down " that Kraft has come up with is already frought with flaws.You dump 90% of your structure but still leave dead weight in your ranks.It's like doing a heart transplant on a terminal cancer patient.Sure , you'll keep him kicking a bit longer but the end result is the same.

Seriously , looking at our FA activity , does anyone trust Wolfe to solid , sane , decisions ?.The fact that 99% of the fans on here get what the team needs and the Patriots front office doesn't , shows where this draft is going.We will certainly get some great picks , but putting them into this disfunctional family will be a mess.You don't plant new seed in bad soil.The Pat's need to get their house in order , draft smart , and do a legitimate , honest rebuild and not just one that gives the owner the warm and fuzzies.

I don't see any use in drafting a QB at 3 , it seems wasteful at this point.Possibly one at 5 might work , but our need is to great at many positions.Then it's time to say goodbye to any of the under peerformers on the roster who have been given a pass on the hope that they would improve ( they aren't ).I want the team to establish a philosphy ,they put a bullet in the head of "The Patriot way " so show us something better , tell us who you are ! , who Patriot Nation is !.

I want to see an intelligent , thoughtful draft. I want to see a draft class that lifts our confidence , not only in the team but the leadership. Alas , I don't have any reasonable belief this will happen.So , in a final ode to the "Patriot Way " , I say to team management , that all I want is you to " DO YOUR DAMN JOB ".
 
Prometheus 441 said:
I enjoy looking at all the prospects of whom we might get like a kid with the Sears catalog at Christmas (it's an age reference deal ).But the reality of our draft is so murky ,we look at needs , wants , who's available and ability to get them but then ,there stands the elephant !.We are'nt on a rudderless ship , we're bailing in the boiler room of Titanic .This whole " burn the house down " that Kraft has come up with is already frought with flaws.You dump 90% of your structure but still leave dead weight in your ranks.It's like doing a heart transplant on a terminal cancer patient.Sure , you'll keep him kicking a bit longer but the end result is the same.

Seriously , looking at our FA activity , does anyone trust Wolfe to solid , sane , decisions ?.The fact that 99% of the fans on here get what the team needs and the Patriots front office doesn't , shows where this draft is going.We will certainly get some great picks , but putting them into this disfunctional family will be a mess.You don't plant new seed in bad soil.The Pat's need to get their house in order , draft smart , and do a legitimate , honest rebuild and not just one that gives the owner the warm and fuzzies.

I don't see any use in drafting a QB at 3 , it seems wasteful at this point.Possibly one at 5 might work , but our need is to great at many positions.Then it's time to say goodbye to any of the under peerformers on the roster who have been given a pass on the hope that they would improve ( they aren't ).I want the team to establish a philosphy ,they put a bullet in the head of "The Patriot way " so show us something better , tell us who you are ! , who Patriot Nation is !.

I want to see an intelligent , thoughtful draft. I want to see a draft class that lifts our confidence , not only in the team but the leadership. Alas , I don't have any reasonable belief this will happen.So , in a final ode to the "Patriot Way " , I say to team management , that all I want is you to " DO YOUR DAMN JOB ".
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Good post, Prometheus. You get it.

So far in FA we haven't gotten better than last year's team. Brissett may get us an extra win or maybe even 2 but otherwise this FO has only re-signed some players drafted by
Bill's regime. I don't see how this separates this FO from Bill's regime at all. When they said changes would be made I expected splashes at the WR position since that's the
position that provides the greatest amount of change from Bill who seemed for 23 years to undervalue the position. But no. Instead the Pats were embarrassed by the Titans.

As for trusting Wolf, yeah, I think he would be fine if he had free reign and wasn't worried about his contract running out after the draft. The guy is a lame duck who is running
scared so it stands to reason he'll want to do things that make Kraft happy, ie. don't spend money. Bottom line, I trust Wolf more than I trust Kraft but in the end Kraft is telling Wolf
what he can and can't spend so I don't trust either of them in FA whether it's re-signing our best players or bringing in outside talent. That doesn't make Wolf a bad guy but it does make him Kraft's puppet who can only do what Kraft allows him to do. The same restraints pertained to Bill, too. He was held back by Kraft's cheap nature in the very same way, imo.

The draft is different with the slotted pay scale. I think Wolf is smart enough to weigh all his options wisely and to perform in a way that to him is in the best interest of the team
without having to worry about what Kraft thinks or the money spent.

For these reasons, I think Wolf has a much better opportunity to show us who he is in the draft than in FA.
 
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