A High Level Study Of Mac Jones' Game

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king of kings said:
I would love that trade. I think Falcons will trade before the season. It would Give Cam a #1 option at WR. Even if hes not in his prime. He would open things up for agholar & TE's.
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I'm pretty sure you're right, that Jones will be traded before the season. They left him off the official 2021 schedule wallpaper, replaced him with the kicker.

Atlanta Falcons Leave Out WR Julio Jones From Season Schedule Wallpaper Amid Trade Rumors And Falcons Fans Freaked Out

NFL teams finally released their schedule on Wednesday night which is usually a time to celebrate their players but the Atlanta Falcons made one glaring
brobible.com brobible.com
 
Hawg73 said:
Lots of people thought Moss was done before we got him. Lots.

Cooks was a pretty good deal for us. I won't bother to look up the particulars, but it didn't cost us much of anything to rent him for a year.

Anyhow, trading for Julio would have been impossible before this year. He has been ultra-productive and a perfect teammate despite playing for a mediocre organization that would have had
other guys finagling to get to a team where they have a chance to win a ring. He missed 6 games last year and parts of others. His worst year in football and he averaged about 5 catches a game. That isn't exactly falling off the table top. The age and missed time doesn't mean he's all done, but comparing him to Sanu is ridiculous. You may as well compare the average American Idol contestant to Bocelli.

But, as I'm still in a benevolent mood after landing Mac Jones, I'm going to suggest we just agree to disagree on the wisdom of a deal that hasn't happened.

If we get him, then I'll be glad to revisit the discussion at a later time.
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Those are fair points. The other thing to consider is Cam. If we still had Brady, I would be for it morseso but Cam is not going to get much out of him. Plus our offense this year is going to be TE/RB heavy. That design is on purpose for Cam and Jones.

I do hope in a couple of years if Jones develops well like Allen has in Buffalo, we go get a Diggs type receiver. I think Julio would be wasted right now with our Qb situation and offensive design.
 
Hawg73 said:
If the price is a 2nd rounder then I'm all for a Julio Jones trade as long as he checks out medically.

I know he had the hammy last season, but that is an injury he should (ahem) recover from. If you get a chance to get a Julio Jones, even one that is
closer to the end than the beginning, then you should make sure your phone is always charged.

I first saw him play when he was in HIgh School and I'd be really pleased to see him end his career wearing a Patriots uniform about 4 years from now
after he becomes Randy Moss II for us. Randy would be another guy that was supposed to be over the hill, except reports of his general decline turned
out to be wildly inaccurate.
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In a heartbeat. The guy gives everything on the field and his athleticism still puts him in the top 5-6% of WRs. Big guy, big radius, big leaping and contested catch ability.
In a heartbeat. He played 3 healthy games and played with the hamstring nagging him for another 6 games and still put up 51 catches for 771 yds. Week 13 was his last game - hammy.
In a heartbeat. 15 yd/catch career average. Cam can do that. Where else are you going to get a player with his ability, desire, work ethic and production for a 2nd round pick?
In a heartbeat. He'll be traded after June 1 for cap reasons.
 
chevss454 said:
In a heartbeat. The guy gives everything on the field and his athleticism still puts him in the top 5-6% of WRs. Big guy, big radius, big leaping and contested catch ability.
In a heartbeat. He played 3 healthy games and played with the hamstring nagging him for another 6 games and still put up 51 catches for 771 yds. Week 13 was his last game - hammy.
In a heartbeat. 15 yd/catch career average. Cam can do that. Where else are you going to get a player with his ability, desire, work ethic and production for a 2nd round pick?
In a heartbeat. He'll be traded after June 1 for cap reasons.
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Absolutely this. ^^^
 
chevss454 said:
In a heartbeat. The guy gives everything on the field and his athleticism still puts him in the top 5-6% of WRs. Big guy, big radius, big leaping and contested catch ability.
In a heartbeat. He played 3 healthy games and played with the hamstring nagging him for another 6 games and still put up 51 catches for 771 yds. Week 13 was his last game - hammy.
In a heartbeat. 15 yd/catch career average. Cam can do that. Where else are you going to get a player with his ability, desire, work ethic and production for a 2nd round pick?
In a heartbeat. He'll be traded after June 1 for cap reasons.
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The contested catch point is a really good one. Julio is amazing at taking the ball away from a defender including, as you pointed out, the ones above the rim.

When Brandin Cooks slows down, his career is over because he depends on being wide open to survive as he drops balls when a defender clears his throat. Or winks
at him.

I don't know exactly where Jones would rank athletically among all WRs, but I don't care. He looks like he still has plenty of juice and I think a move here would
get his motor running. I watched him in clips from last season yesterday and it struck me how many bad throws Ryan got away with because Julio bailed him out.

Even if it's Cam all year, wouldn't we all agree that you want a guy that can be successful without precision passes? Yes.

Now let's see if something could be worked out before we get any more worked up over a rumor. It appears that about half the teams in the league are interested,
including the Jets.
 
Hawg73 said:
Even if it's Cam all year, wouldn't we all agree that you want a guy that can be successful without precision passes? Yes.
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If we had Jimmy right now, I would be on board 100%. Not Cam though. He would waste him and our #2 pick.
 
Hawg73 said:
Now let's see if something could be worked out before we get any more worked up over a rumor. It appears that about half the teams in the league are interested,
including the Jets.
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My usual not very useful tale regarding virtually all these let's get/could get/ gonna get threads? Patience grasshopper
 
Mazz22 said:
If we had Jimmy right now, I would be on board 100%. Not Cam though. He would waste him and our #2 pick.
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Is there any part of you that thinks that maybe, just maybe, Newton could have a better season than last?

I mean.......a reasonable case could be made that last year's disaster wasn't entirely his fault. Personally,
I think there is plenty of logic to suggest he can be significantly better.
 
i think he will be better, but i've never been a fan of his game. i was extremely surprised the pats brought him in specifically due to his career long accuracy issues and how much the pats value that trait.
 
Hawg73 said:
Is there any part of you that thinks that maybe, just maybe, Newton could have a better season than last?

I mean.......a reasonable case could be made that last year's disaster wasn't entirely his fault. Personally,
I think there is plenty of logic to suggest he can be significantly better.
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No. I don't believe so. I actually think it could be worse for a few reasons. First, teams now have 15 games of film on Newton as a Patriot. I think the decline that showed the second half of last season was due to defenses catching on to our offensive approach and taking away the run. Second, he was plain awful from the pocket. He had no short game, he had no long game. His mechanics were awful on top. His feet were always shuffling. This led to the dirt balls and high balls. Some of this was due to his foot bothering him I think and his shoulder. Given that, I have little faith his body will hold up for 17 games. Third, Newton admitted that the offense was too difficult for him to learn. He said there was too much going on his head for him to be able to make the right read when the ball was snapped. He also had no sense of pressure either even when the pressure was coming off of his right side, his sight side as opposed to his blind side.

Bill resigning him is as head scratching to me as him benching Butler in the SB, maybe moreso. A case can be made that he was one of Bill's worst FA signings. As bad as that is, it happens as sometimes FAs bust BUT what makes Newton unique is Bill resigned him for more money than he paid him last year. It is absurd to me on every level imaginable that as of May 17, he is our unquestioned starter.

I have little hope for this season to be any better than last year as long as Newton is our starter. The improvements were not nearly enough IMO to make our offensive what it needs to be for us to be a true playoff contender. And on top, I have little hope that Jones will play at all as a rookie because our offense is complex and Bill is a tough coach and the learning curve will just be too big. That being said, my biggest hope is that Jones blows everyone away in TC forcing Bill to have to start him at some point in the season. I think that might be pie in the sky but that is what I want to desperately happen otherwise we are looking at another middling season.
 
Hawg73 said:
Is there any part of you that thinks that maybe, just maybe, Newton could have a better season than last?

I mean.......a reasonable case could be made that last year's disaster wasn't entirely his fault. Personally,
I think there is plenty of logic to suggest he can be significantly better.
Click to expand...

I think we can pivot this to say, it is illogical to assume that Newton will be as bad this season as he appeared last season, all things being equal with him. He will have a better O Line, better targets, a proper TC and a year under his belt with Josh and co. All things being equal, he and the offence will be better. What would make him worse would be a decline in him, in his physical and mental state. If he remains the same, the offense will be better as he has more talent surrounding him. I mean having T Brown alone will probably bag him more running TDs. If he improves on last year significantly, then the upside could be huge.
 
Mazz22 said:
No. I don't believe so. I actually think it could be worse for a few reasons. First, teams now have 15 games of film on Newton as a Patriot. I think the decline that showed the second half of last season was due to defenses catching on to our offensive approach and taking away the run. Second, he was plain awful from the pocket. He had no short game, he had no long game. His mechanics were awful on top. His feet were always shuffling. This led to the dirt balls and high balls. Some of this was due to his foot bothering him I think and his shoulder. Given that, I have little faith his body will hold up for 17 games. Third, Newton admitted that the offense was too difficult for him to learn. He said there was too much going on his head for him to be able to make the right read when the ball was snapped. He also had no sense of pressure either even when the pressure was coming off of his right side, his sight side as opposed to his blind side.

Bill resigning him is as head scratching to me as him benching Butler in the SB, maybe moreso. A case can be made that he was one of Bill's worst FA signings. As bad as that is, it happens as sometimes FAs bust BUT what makes Newton unique is Bill resigned him for more money than he paid him last year. It is absurd to me on every level imaginable that as of May 17, he is our unquestioned starter.

I have little hope for this season to be any better than last year as long as Newton is our starter. The improvements were not nearly enough IMO to make our offensive what it needs to be for us to be a true playoff contender. And on top, I have little hope that Jones will play at all as a rookie because our offense is complex and Bill is a tough coach and the learning curve will just be too big. That being said, my biggest hope is that Jones blows everyone away in TC forcing Bill to have to start him at some point in the season. I think that might be pie in the sky but that is what I want to desperately happen otherwise we are looking at another middling season.
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I think we're seeing things quite differently. I watched Cam look good when he had decent help, but when his weapons were depleted he was basically let out to dry. Even then, despite all of that he didn't grade out that bad. He never threw anyone under the bus. He always has a positive attitude, and most of all his teammates love him. There's plenty of upside to think that Cam will look much better. Also there will be training camp and preseason, which will be of great help. Those two TEs also fall in line with his strong suit in Carolina, which was his TE. Now he has two very good TEs. I think he will be much improved.
 
SkiptoMyLou said:
I think we're seeing things quite differently. I watched Cam look good when he had decent help, but when his weapons were depleted he was basically let out to dry. Even then, despite all of that he didn't grade out that bad. He never threw anyone under the bus. He always has a positive attitude, and most of all his teammates love him. There's plenty of upside to think that Cam will look much better. Also there will be training camp and preseason, which will be of great help. Those two TEs also fall in line with his strong suit in Carolina, which was his TE. Now he has two very good TEs. I think he will be much improved.
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I do love our Oline which was also very good last year. My take is not based on Cam the person or leader. I think he checks all the boxes in that regard. I just don't think he can play anymore at a starter level. The injuries have really taken their toll. He has the worst 2 injuries a QB can have - his throwing shoulder and his foot. I am happy about the overall make up of the team so we will see how it all shakes. Our D should be better too and it was already good last year despite not really having any LBs.
 
Mazz22 said:
Newton admitted that the offense was too difficult for him to learn. He said there was too much going on his head for him to be able to make the right read when the ball was snapped.
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Don't know if Cam will improve or decline, but I'm not sure why you think a year in the offense and an off-season under his belt will not help him understand it better. And I don't think he said the offense was too difficult to learn, but that it was difficult to learn. Quite a difference. Brady said the same thing last week about the TB offense (that it was a difficult adjustment to make at times). Cam's biggest 'problem' is that he isn't Tom Brady, an impossilbe standard for anyone to meet.

As an aside, I wonder if Brady is having second thoughts about abandoning rookies and bitching them out rather than helping them along. If TFB can have adjustment issues, then why expect a rookie not to have troubles when Brady had them scared shitless of making a mistake. That is no way to learn.
 
Mazz22 said:
No. I don't believe so. I actually think it could be worse for a few reasons. First, teams now have 15 games of film on Newton as a Patriot. I think the decline that showed the second half of last season was due to defenses catching on to our offensive approach and taking away the run. Second, he was plain awful from the pocket. He had no short game, he had no long game. His mechanics were awful on top. His feet were always shuffling. This led to the dirt balls and high balls. Some of this was due to his foot bothering him I think and his shoulder. Given that, I have little faith his body will hold up for 17 games. Third, Newton admitted that the offense was too difficult for him to learn. He said there was too much going on his head for him to be able to make the right read when the ball was snapped. He also had no sense of pressure either even when the pressure was coming off of his right side, his sight side as opposed to his blind side.

Bill resigning him is as head scratching to me as him benching Butler in the SB, maybe moreso. A case can be made that he was one of Bill's worst FA signings. As bad as that is, it happens as sometimes FAs bust BUT what makes Newton unique is Bill resigned him for more money than he paid him last year. It is absurd to me on every level imaginable that as of May 17, he is our unquestioned starter.

I have little hope for this season to be any better than last year as long as Newton is our starter. The improvements were not nearly enough IMO to make our offensive what it needs to be for us to be a true playoff contender. And on top, I have little hope that Jones will play at all as a rookie because our offense is complex and Bill is a tough coach and the learning curve will just be too big. That being said, my biggest hope is that Jones blows everyone away in TC forcing Bill to have to start him at some point in the season. I think that might be pie in the sky but that is what I want to desperately happen otherwise we are looking at another middling season.
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Well, at least nobody can question where you stand on the issue. Not bullish on Newton.

One of the biggest reasons I didn't like the initial Cam signing is that he always displayed a complete lack of self-preservation and it had taken a toll. I didn't know if he could
ever adjust to sliding and picking his spots to run and 2020 was a mixed bag. He still ran too much, but appeared to be slightly wiser at avoiding unnecessary hits. Having said that,
he helped us with his legs quite a bit, but I'm hoping he doesn't have to nearly as often this season. We shall see.

I can't wait until we start getting real stories out of Foxboro about the rookies. I expect that we will read that Mac Jones seemed overwhelmed and confused with what he is supposed to be doing approximately zero times. I don't think anybody expects that he'll master everything before the season starts, but I wouldn't be surprised if he is well down the path with only getting
adequate reps holding him back. I could see Bill sticking with Cam for a long stretch even if he looks like 2020 Cam, so Mac needn't worry about rushing anything.
 
Hawg73 said:
Well, at least nobody can question where you stand on the issue. Not bullish on Newton.

One of the biggest reasons I didn't like the initial Cam signing is that he always displayed a complete lack of self-preservation and it had taken a toll. I didn't know if he could
ever adjust to sliding and picking his spots to run and 2020 was a mixed bag. He still ran too much, but appeared to be slightly wiser at avoiding unnecessary hits. Having said that,
he helped us with his legs quite a bit, but I'm hoping he doesn't have to nearly as often this season. We shall see.

I can't wait until we start getting real stories out of Foxboro about the rookies. I expect that we will read that Mac Jones seemed overwhelmed and confused with what he is supposed to be doing approximately zero times. I don't think anybody expects that he'll master everything before the season starts, but I wouldn't be surprised if he is well down the path with only getting
adequate reps holding him back. I could see Bill sticking with Cam for a long stretch even if he looks like 2020 Cam, so Mac needn't worry about rushing anything.
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I agree with this but will add that inside the 5 yard line defenses did not even bother covering any of our receivers. My dogs knew that Cam was going to run. Is that on Cam or Josh, I don't know, but it was a glaring fault of the offense last year.
 
foobahl said:
I agree with this but will add that inside the 5 yard line defenses did not even bother covering any of our receivers. My dogs knew that Cam was going to run. Is that on Cam or Josh, I don't know, but it was a glaring fault of the offense last year.
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I didn't mind it. Our red zone offense was not the issue. Cam was dynamite down there for the most part. I think with the new TEs there will be more passes this year.
 
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