According to Incognito...

What a bunch of dysfunctional idiots. Incognito is done in the NFL we will never step foot in another locker room.
 
In order to potentially save someone else from feeling the need to do so, I just read the entire report by Wells & Co. and would sum up it's findings as:

Incognito, Jerry and Pouncey were lewd, gross, insulting and extremely unfunny in their taunts directed at Martin and other teammates, but they weren't criminal in anything they did unless we live in a much more bizarre universe than I had realized.

The reports contains graphic examples of the kind of thing Martin was sensitive about such as suggestive comments about his sister. Nothing said seemed even remotely interesting or funny to me and I appreciate well done crudeness. We're talking extremely stupid shit here. It's hard to believe any of them actually went to college.

Jon Martin actually is a big pussy. He seemed a magnet for insults and was completely unprepared to deal with the kind of alpha male bullshit that every guy I know had to learn to cope with at a young age. And THAT is the only reason he attracted those insults.

He brought a ton of baggage with him into the NFL and I doubt he'll ever play another full season in the league.

Summary: Martin threw not only Incognito, Jerry and Pouncey, but many other members of the Dolphins organization totally under the bus. I could argue the league as well, because there will be wide-ranging and useless repercussions to this idiotic story and he did this because he was and is weak of mind and spirit and needs psychological counseling. A pussy.
 
In order to potentially save someone else from feeling the need to do so, I just read the entire report by Wells & Co. and would sum up it's findings as:

Incognito, Jerry and Pouncey were lewd, gross, insulting and extremely unfunny in their taunts directed at Martin and other teammates, but they weren't criminal in anything they did unless we live in a much more bizarre universe than I had realized.

The reports contains graphic examples of the kind of thing Martin was sensitive about such as suggestive comments about his sister. Nothing said seemed even remotely interesting or funny to me and I appreciate well done crudeness. We're talking extremely stupid shit here. It's hard to believe any of them actually went to college.

Jon Martin actually is a big pussy. He seemed a magnet for insults and was completely unprepared to deal with the kind of alpha male bullshit that every guy I know had to learn to cope with at a young age. And THAT is the only reason he attracted those insults.

He brought a ton of baggage with him into the NFL and I doubt he'll ever play another full season in the league.

Summary: Martin threw not only Incognito, Jerry and Pouncey, but many other members of the Dolphins organization totally under the bus. I could argue the league as well, because there will be wide-ranging and useless repercussions to this idiotic story and he did this because he was and is weak of mind and spirit and needs psychological counseling. A pussy.

I agree with everything you've said. Incognito is an idiot, but Pouncey is dangerous. Martin is weak, and this should have been smelled out while he was in college. He's ruined Incognito's career. I doubt anyone will touch him, and that's a shame because in the 200 or so texts that I did read, it appeared to me that Richie pulled some frat house lude crap with him, but was also his friend, and it appeared that Martin responded to much of Richie's diarrhea in kind.

I had posted somewhere else something to the effect of "looks like Ted Wells was in the pockets of Martin's camp" and got a response that I was following the Penn State school of thought defense. Absolutely not. I've never been a fan of Incognito and think he's a fairly dirty player, but right is right and wrong is wrong. This is football, and if you can't stand the heat, get the eff out. What did Martin think this was? These are big strong guys that have been adored by many during their college careers, pumped up by all the girls that want to date (euphemism) a college football player, go drinking and go to strip clubs to further their image of macho-ism, and play the part. Not all, but many of them.

I hope Martin never gets on a pro field again. It would serve him right. He wasn't man enough to deal with the situation on his own, go to his coaches to let them know something was going on, confront the guys that were doing it. Instead, he ran to mommy and daddy and cried. Fvck him.
 
This sounds like a bunch of juvenile high school bullshit. WGAF about this anyway? This seriously happens everyday, but, this incident makes the headlines? BFD...

What Incognito did wasn't classy, but, it happens day in day out. What Martin did was spineless and it makes him look like a little pussy. If he thinks that he wants to join another team, what coach wants a player like this? Maybe Dungy...
 
In order to potentially save someone else from feeling the need to do so, I just read the entire report by Wells & Co. and would sum up it's findings as:

Incognito, Jerry and Pouncey were lewd, gross, insulting and extremely unfunny in their taunts directed at Martin and other teammates, but they weren't criminal in anything they did unless we live in a much more bizarre universe than I had realized.

The reports contains graphic examples of the kind of thing Martin was sensitive about such as suggestive comments about his sister. Nothing said seemed even remotely interesting or funny to me and I appreciate well done crudeness. We're talking extremely stupid shit here. It's hard to believe any of them actually went to college.

Jon Martin actually is a big pussy. He seemed a magnet for insults and was completely unprepared to deal with the kind of alpha male bullshit that every guy I know had to learn to cope with at a young age. And THAT is the only reason he attracted those insults.

He brought a ton of baggage with him into the NFL and I doubt he'll ever play another full season in the league.

Summary: Martin threw not only Incognito, Jerry and Pouncey, but many other members of the Dolphins organization totally under the bus. I could argue the league as well, because there will be wide-ranging and useless repercussions to this idiotic story and he did this because he was and is weak of mind and spirit and needs psychological counseling. A pussy.

Martin being "too sensitive" and, the other unnamed O-lineman and the unnamed trainer who were targets of these three a$$holes apparently remaining silent is kind of irrelevant wrt any evaluation of team management and locker room leadership. Yeah, I think Martin way overreacted. But, it seems to me that, if there were three targets, there were probably others who bore the bullshit and maybe defended themselves better or just let it go.

Regardless, that kind of crap can't possibly contribute in any way but negatively to any attempt to build a winning team, much less a united locker room. It's unbelievable that Philbin was so unaware and that coaches who were aware allowed such egregious disrespect for teammates to continue (and, even, apparently, participated on some level).

I can't imagine that BB would ever be unaware of something like this in the Pats' locker room or tolerate it for more than a nanosecond. For that matter, I doubt that any of the Pats veteran players would tolerate it for more than a nanosecond.
 
I hope Martin never gets on a pro field again. It would serve him right. He wasn't man enough to deal with the situation on his own, go to his coaches to let them know something was going on, confront the guys that were doing it. Instead, he ran to mommy and daddy and cried. Fvck him.
THAT'S RIGHT! Fvck that guy for bein mentally ill! And while we're at it fvck anyone who has a heart attack, or gets cancer, or breaks their leg! Mental illness isn't real anyway right? Just like Cancer is just people tryin to defraud workman's comp.

It's statements like this that make me cheer on climate change, because as a species we don't deserve to survive.
 
THAT'S RIGHT! Fvck that guy for bein mentally ill! And while we're at it fvck anyone who has a heart attack, or gets cancer, or breaks their leg! Mental illness isn't real anyway right? Just like Cancer is just people tryin to defraud workman's comp.

It's statements like this that make me cheer on climate change, because as a species we don't deserve to survive.

Way to twist words to suit yourself.
 
I don't give a shit about Richie, either. It's about what's right and wrong. Mental toughness - Martin has none. Wah wah wah.

So victims of bullying are not mentally tough? Well F them then.

But perhaps I'm a bit sensitive since I've had a front row seat to it :shrug:
 
So victims of bullying are not mentally tough? Well F them then.

But perhaps I'm a bit sensitive since I've had a front row seat to it :shrug:

Oh, I'm not saying that. The question in my mind is was he actually bullied or was he part of the back and forth? It seems to me that the only one on the team that has said he was bullied is Martin himself and now Ted Wells. Not one of the other teammates that has spoken out, and there have been quite a few, has said that there was bullying and they all believed that Martin and Richie were friends.

So I question the credibility of Martin.
 
THAT'S RIGHT! Fvck that guy for bein mentally ill! And while we're at it fvck anyone who has a heart attack, or gets cancer, or breaks their leg! Mental illness isn't real anyway right? Just like Cancer is just people tryin to defraud workman's comp.

It's statements like this that make me cheer on climate change, because as a species we don't deserve to survive.

Actually, it's fvck that guy for fvcking over his entire team because he was too much of a puss to stand up and defend himself and his sister's honor from a bunch of fratboy moron wannabe thugs.

Jon Martin doesn't deserve to be defended for his lack of action. He isn't mentally ill -- he's a foof, a ninnymuggins. Big difference.
 
Martin being "too sensitive" and, the other unnamed O-lineman and the unnamed trainer who were targets of these three a$$holes apparently remaining silent is kind of irrelevant wrt any evaluation of team management and locker room leadership. Yeah, I think Martin way overreacted. But, it seems to me that, if there were three targets, there were probably others who bore the bullshit and maybe defended themselves better or just let it go. Regardless, that kind of crap can't possibly contribute in any way but negatively to any attempt to build a winning team, much less a united locker room. It's unbelievable that Philbin was so unaware and that coaches who were aware allowed such egregious disrespect for teammates to continue (and, even, apparently, participated on some level). I can't imagine that BB would ever be unaware of something like this in the Pats' locker room or tolerate it for more than a nanosecond. For that matter, I doubt that any of the Pats veteran players would tolerate it for more than a nanosecond.

I don't know the details, and have no desire to know them about this incident.

However, there are countless examples, in multiple scenarios and types of groups where some sort of stress, difficulty, etc. serves as a rite of passage that allows people to bond as a team.

The strongest occurs with a shared experience, but there are other examples.

Those in the military know that another has gone through boot camp, and that ties them together.

Doctors know the other Doctor went through the long hours of Residency.

Hazing practices, are also well documented to forge such bonds.

There is no doubt that hazing can go too far, as the death for that marching band a year or two ago readily demonstrates.

So I don't agree that hazing/crap/stress/etc. can't forge bonds among teamates. If done at the right level it can be most effective.

As with anything, the trick is to find the Goldilocks level.
 
THAT'S RIGHT! Fvck that guy for bein mentally ill! And while we're at it fvck anyone who has a heart attack, or gets cancer, or breaks their leg! Mental illness isn't real anyway right? Just like Cancer is just people tryin to defraud workman's comp.

It's statements like this that make me cheer on climate change, because as a species we don't deserve to survive.

Dude you went overboard there. You don't try to destroy. someone career . When you could dish it out. But can't take it. The earlier reports basically painted Richie as a scumbag racist.
 
Dude you went overboard there. You don't try to destroy. someone career . When you could dish it out. But can't take it. The earlier reports basically painted Richie as a scumbag racist.

The full text message logs are definitely favorable to Incog.
Probably more than half their conversations were initiated by Martin, nearly all the quotes taken by the media were taken out of context.
You could say Martin felt pressured to be nice to Ritchie, but i really doubt Incog knew that he was offending him from the logs
 
Actually, it's fvck that guy for fvcking over his entire team because he was too much of a puss to stand up and defend himself and his sister's honor from a bunch of fratboy moron wannabe thugs.

Jon Martin doesn't deserve to be defended for his lack of action. He isn't mentally ill -- he's a foof, a ninnymuggins. Big difference.

Yeah, but the team he ****ed over was the Dolphins, so that makes him a minor hero in my book.
 
Yeah, but the team he ****ed over was the Dolphins, so that makes him a minor hero in my book.

Now if only the Amish dude from Stanford learned something from Martin on ****ing a team over we'd all be good. :coffee:
 
I don't know the details, and have no desire to know them about this incident.

However, there are countless examples, in multiple scenarios and types of groups where some sort of stress, difficulty, etc. serves as a rite of passage that allows people to bond as a team.

The strongest occurs with a shared experience, but there are other examples.

Those in the military know that another has gone through boot camp, and that ties them together.

Doctors know the other Doctor went through the long hours of Residency.

Hazing practices, are also well documented to forge such bonds.

There is no doubt that hazing can go too far, as the death for that marching band a year or two ago readily demonstrates.

So I don't agree that hazing/crap/stress/etc. can't forge bonds among teamates. If done at the right level it can be most effective.

As with anything, the trick is to find the Goldilocks level.

I have no doubt that hazing can forge bonds that strengthen a team (though it can, and does, often backfire). And it's entirely possible that simple hazing with that intention is what Incognito et al believed was all they were doing. The back-and-forth text messages from Martin certainly obscured what was "really" going on with him.

However, seeing as how this went on for a very long period of time, it seems to me that the hazers or uninvolved other players (if they were grown-ups) at some point would have recognized that something wasn't quite right with the situation, with Martin, with the atmosphere in the locker room and taken those concerns up the chain of command.

I also think it's part of the HC's job to know about what's going on in his locker room since, obviously, bad locker room situations are not conducive to winning. A head coach being oblivious to a situation as awful as this one turned out to be has to be, from an owner's perspective, just slightly less bad than an HC who's aware of it and doesn't deal with it or can't figure out how to deal with it and doesn't ask for help (If I were Stephen Ross, Philbin would have gotten a serious ass-chewing during the team's "internal investigation").

On the radio this morning, a couple non-football news types were discussing the report and speculated that the NFL might have to intervene in a way similar to their player safety interventions. I suspect, though, that very few NFL locker rooms have situations that come close to blowing up like this one did (the blow-up part being at least 50% the responsibility of Martin himself) and, in any case, it's a team issue and there's not much, if anything, the league office can (or should) do about it (and I'd hate to see them try) aside from speechifying and posturing (which Goodell will undoubtedly do, at some point). If team ownership, front office, coaching staff and players truly want to win, they need to police this stuff themselves.

I guess that, for me, limiting the blame/justification game to either the Incognito side or the Martin side is just too narrow a perspective (though the media will relentlessly continue to play it that way). There's a metric crap-tonne of responsibility to be spread around, IMO.
 
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