In 365 Days

[midgar8784]

I'm pretty sure that Wes Welker by himself is better than any wide receiver you had. Gronk might be the best overall weapon in the league. If he doesn't die of syphilis or paralyze himself jumping off the top rope he will probably go into the Hall of Fame.

Not sure about that...as dchester said the oline was better, Branch and Givens were very solid and Givins was physical, but as I said, we also had a top 5 defense. They didnt drop 41 passes that year either.

 

[OSUBuckeye]

And in fantasy land, against the Giants.

But this is reality. They're done winning titles with Brady.

Interesting.

Not sure I totally agree but I can see it. Now if that is the case, BB is done winning titles as well.

 

[Michigan Dave]

2003 and 2004 we had a top ranked defense, in 2001, we had a 6th ranked scoring defense and a group of vets that could make big stops to end a game. We were an average offense. I know you are not trying to compare this defense with that defense back then, because it was not close. They were giving up 14 or 15 points a game.

Except for the Indy game in 2003 when they gave up 34. Or the Super Bowl, when they gave up 29. I could go on. Point is, the team as a whole is less clutch now.

 

[midgar8784]

Except for the Indy game in 2003 when they gave up 34. Or the Super Bowl, when they gave up 29. I could go on. Point is, the team as a whole is less clutch now.

In 2003-2004, the pats were 15-3 in games that they scored 24 points or less, in the past 2 years we are 11-12......its amazing how clutch you are with a great defense.

 

[Hok]

We will raise the Lombardi in the home of the Jets.

Boom.

at:

Yes!!!!! :dbanana:

 

[dchester]

In 2003-2004, the pats were 15-3 in games that they scored 24 points or less, in the past 2 years we are 11-12......its amazing how clutch you are with a great defense.

Maybe, but the offense was the bigger problem with the playoff losses in seasons: 05, 07, 09, 11, 12.

 

[HSanders]

Mostly agree dchester. Only exception is 09. I think that was the whole team crapping the bed. 06 was the last playoff loss entirely on the D. Oddly enough that was the year they had a patchwork O and the D was actually pretty good. Bobby Wade taking out Rodney vs Tenn hurt big time.

 

[dchester]

Mostly agree dchester. Only exception is 09. I think that was the whole team crapping the bed. 06 was the last playoff loss entirely on the D. Oddly enough that was the year they had a patchwork O and the D was actually pretty good. Bobby Wade taking out Rodney vs Tenn hurt big time.

As bad as the defense played in that 06 game (especially in the second half), the offense still could have won the game if Ricochet Caldwell could have simply caught a soft pass that hit him right on the numbers with no defender near him.

:donkeys:

 

[midgar8784]

Maybe, but the offense was the bigger problem with the playoff losses in seasons: 05, 07, 09, 11, 12.

If we had the playoff games we had in 2003 and 2004 with this years defense, we lose.

 

[midgar8784]

Mostly agree dchester. Only exception is 09. I think that was the whole team crapping the bed. 06 was the last playoff loss entirely on the D. Oddly enough that was the year they had a patchwork O and the D was actually pretty good. Bobby Wade taking out Rodney vs Tenn hurt big time.

You know its funny.....the ravens in the second half of the superbowl scored 2 fg's....thats it and won, because their defense held the niners out of the endzone on 4 tries at the end of the game, had our defense done that, we would have won 2 superbowls as well...its all relative. In other words, its never all on any side of the ball, it takes both sides.

 

[midgar8784]

Maybe, but the offense was the bigger problem with the playoff losses in seasons: 05, 07, 09, 11, 12.

Not sure about that....we averaged 24 points per game in all of our wins in 2001, 2003, 2004....I am not sure we would win even if we averaged that now. But I think it can be fixed....I think Gronk being out has hurt us, so we need to get better at wideout, so that stops hurting us.

 

[RonBrace]

That 24 points is a bit skewed. They scored 3 offensive touchdowns in the entire 2001 playoff run, with 3 more coming off a punt return, blocked FG, and INT. They averaged 13 PPG on offense.

Really the only game the offense completely carried them was the 2003 SB. The other games were defense or a combo of both. Regarding losses:

05 - the loss was on Brady
06 - the defense giving up 32 points in the second half
07 - the offensive line
09 - everybody
10 - the offense until the 4th quarter, and then the defense
11 - the offense not scoring for the last 26 minutes and the D not getting off the field
12 - everybody

Honorable mention: Josh McDaniels. He sucks. I don't know why Belichick likes him so much. We've seen him work his magic in other places.

 

[HSanders]

You know its funny.....the ravens in the second half of the superbowl scored 2 fg's....thats it and won, because their defense held the niners out of the endzone on 4 tries at the end of the game, had our defense done that, we would have won 2 superbowls as well...its all relative. In other words, its never all on any side of the ball, it takes both sides.

And the defense held the Ravens down in the first half this AFCC...but the O crapped the bed. OVERALL...the O failed to it's normal standards (PPG) much more than the D did. That's how I judge it. I know you judge it differently because we've had similar disagreements before.

@dchester Yeah Ricochet's drop was bad but I'm not big on saying one play was the sole difference.

 

[dchester]

And the defense held the Ravens down in the first half this AFCC...but the O crapped the bed. OVERALL...the O failed to it's normal standards (PPG) much more than the D did. That's how I judge it. I know you judge it differently because we've had similar disagreements before.

Forget normal standards, they couldn't even get 20 points

@dchester Yeah Ricochet's drop was bad but I'm not big on saying one play was the sole difference.

He was so wide open, I could have caught that ball and scored, (and my 40 time is measured with a calendar).

 

[Jaric]

Forget normal standards, they couldn't even get 20 points

He was so wide open, I could have caught that ball and scored, (and my 40 time is measured with a calendar).

This. Hell, Marlin Jackson caught a similar pass and he plays on defense!

 

[dchester]

This. Hell, Marlin Jackson caught a similar pass and he plays on defense!

Thanks

:donkeys:

 

[Jaric]

Thanks

:donkeys:

Anytime!

 

[HSanders]

Forget normal standards, they couldn't even get 20 points

And the only SB win the Pats had where the offense could have scored only 20 pts and won was SB 36.

Some of the Pats pre 2007 offenses were better than some people give them credit for. To this day no offense of theirs was better in my book that the 04 offense. And that offense had only 1 decent pass catcher at TE (Fauria).

 

[dchester]

And the only SB win the Pats had where the offense could have scored only 20 pts and won was SB 36.

Some of the Pats pre 2007 offenses were better than some people give them credit for. To this day no offense of theirs was better in my book that the 04 offense. And that offense had only 1 decent pass catcher at TE (Fauria).

Back then, we had 4 WRs who could occasionally get open down the field and catch the ball. Also Faulk could do a fair amount of the 3rd down stuff (when he wasn't fumbling). Also the 2003 o-line gave up zero sacks in the entire playoff run. How often was Brady sacked in some of the losses? It seems like 5 sacks occurred more than once.

 

[midgar8784]

Back then, we had 4 WRs who could occasionally get open down the field and catch the ball. Also Faulk could do a fair amount of the 3rd down stuff (when he wasn't fumbling). Also the 2003 o-line gave up zero sacks in the entire playoff run. How often was Brady sacked in some of the losses? It seems like 5 sacks occurred more than once.

Its called the cap, and players retiring and oh yeah thats how football is....if we could have the same team every year, then it would not be very fun for everyone else would it? I want consistency, when you have players that play awhile together, you get that, we have not had that...it seems every year we are breaking in a new outside receiver. You give me branch and Givens from 2003, we could work it just fine.