Is there a bigger hypocrite/phony than Dungy?

[LVent*]

I also respect saying what you think.

But when you are in a coaching fraternity, there is simply a time and a place to state your mind.

If you were caught in a shitstorm and someone of equal rank in your organization or a related organization intoned moralistically about you, I think you would view it very negatively.

oh for sure, but I would fire back

 

[DarrylStingley]

oh for sure, but I would fire back

You know that had BB done that at the time, he would have looked terrible.

 

[mikiemo83]

You know that had BB done that at the time, he would have looked terrible.

that is why I am not in the position that BB is...Mikiemo was a very vengeful person once

 

[LVent*]

You know that had BB done that at the time, he would have looked terrible.

maybe to others, but not to me~

 

[DarrylStingley]

maybe to others, but not to me~

Minimizing it and saying we're moving on was the best way to manage his team.

Given the results -- the Charger thrashing and the subsequent 14 straight wins, I don't think there's a lot of room for criticism.

Yeah, it might have been more fun and manly to respond to Dungy by calling him a soap box ninny and a phony in response, but it would have blown up the issue even more, and would have lead to greater possibility that the players' concentration level would have been compromised.

 

[Jaric]

The question is did the media take that mistake and turn it into a much bigger deal that it was.

Yes and no.

Yes because it got way more air time than any one story deserves IMO. I could say that about pretty much anything that happens in the NFL these days, that is sadly just the media climate right now. They beat things into the ground

But at the same time, this was about as close to a perfect media storm as we will see. You have these factors:

A.) The patriots off season moves had already put them at the forefront of media attention.
B.) The patriots are the most successful team this decade, and the only other team that even comes close is the colts.
C.) BB, as you mentioned, was arrogant about the whole thing, and his previous dealings with the media have also been construed as arrogance.
D.) The fact that it happened against the Jets (which lets face it is kinda like cheating against a toddler in Battleship) AND against a former mentor makes an already juicy story even Jucier.
E.) Finally, the league set forth a record punishment for it.

Add all that up (and a alot of other things I didn't mention) and you get the amount of publicity that it recieved, right or wrong (which doesn't really matter, it is what it is to qoute BB)

Also FWIW, Dungy also publically (I don't know if it's in the same comments you are talking about) stated that this had nothing to do with any of the times that the patriots beat the Colts (which I believe is the exact thing that Cowher said.)

 

[DarrylStingley]

Yes and no.

Yes because it got way more air time than any one story deserves IMO. I could say that about pretty much anything that happens in the NFL these days, that is sadly just the media climate right now. They beat things into the ground

But at the same time, this was about as close to a perfect media storm as we will see. You have these factors:

A.) The patriots off season moves had already put them at the forefront of media attention.
B.) The patriots are the most successful team this decade, and the only other team that even comes close is the colts.
C.) BB, as you mentioned, was arrogant about the whole thing, and his previous dealings with the media have also been construed as arrogance.
D.) The fact that it happened against the Jets (which lets face it is kinda like cheating against a toddler in Battleship) AND against a former mentor makes an already juicy story even Jucier.
E.) Finally, the league set forth a record punishment for it.

Add all that up (and a alot of other things I didn't mention) and you get the amount of publicity that it recieved, right or wrong (which doesn't really matter, it is what it is to qoute BB)

Also FWIW, Dungy also publically (I don't know if it's in the same comments you are talking about) stated that this had nothing to do with any of the times that the patriots beat the Colts (which I believe is the exact thing that Cowher said.)

You are ignoring the fact that many writers and commentators -- Peter King, Easterbrook, the HBO crew, for example -- were talking about this for several weeks after it happened.

And you are ignoring their degree of outrage. Like Dungy, they acted as if BB had released a form of the cancer on the NFL. They ignored that espionage has always been part of the mix.

In short, they ignored that the crime was hubris. Hubris is a bad thing. It doesn't merit the hushed tones and moral outrage that people unleased. That was opportunism and foolishness.

And Tony Dungy was right in the middle of that perfect storm of overreaction, and his quotes were excellent fodder for those -- like Easterbrook -- who were given to overreaction in the first place.

 

[Jaric]

You are ignoring the fact that many writers and commentators -- Peter King, Easterbrook, the HBO crew, for example -- were talking about this for several weeks after it happened.

I am? People are still talking about it. I simply gave reasons why they gave it the attention they did. I'm not trying to excuse anyone, just simply stating what happened and why.

In short, they ignored that the crime was hubris. Hubris is a bad thing. It doesn't merit the hushed tones and moral outrage that people unleased. That was opportunism and foolishness.

No the crime was illegally videotaping. The Hubris is what pissed alot of people off. BB was not fined and the Patriots docked a draft pick for being rude. They were penalized for something that the Commish obviously felt was a greivious enough offense to warrent the biggest fine in NFL history.

The Media didn't do that. Tony Dungy didn't do that. Roger Goddell did that. Now you can speculate about why he did that. Or if other people were also doing the same thing, but the fact remains is that Bill is the one who got caught and anything else is little more than heresay. Unless you can produce the same kind of evidence that the NFL had against Bill of course (which if you do, please share it)

And Tony Dungy was right in the middle of that perfect storm of overreaction, and his quotes were excellent fodder for those -- like Easterbrook -- who were given to overreaction in the first place.

Easterbrook is a retard. He wrote a sentationalist piece of yellow journalism to hype an already overhyped game.

That's not Dungy's fault, and you would have seen a similar article even if the only thing Dungy said was "no comment."

And something that really baffle's me, is why there is more outrage for someone whose really only crime was saying "this is a bad thing for the league" than there is the person who actually commited the offense in question? I really don't understand that.

And really, if you want to blame someone for all this, you really need to look at Bill. Because if he follows the rules, or at least when he gets caught admit that he made a mistake instead of that half assed "we misintrepreted the rules" nonsense and this likely goes away alot quicker or never happened at all.

Because the bottom line, is if you don't want people to call you out for breaking the rules, the best way is not ever break them.

 

[tehmackdaddy]

Why do you care so much? Why does it bother you?

If it's the "Head Coaches' Code" to not say anything, can you provide a source for that or is it just something you're fabricating?

With regards to the "dark day" comment, Dungy was absolutely correct with his comments...it simply was not a good day for the NFL in the public's eye. He then went on to compliment members of the Patriots organization, reinforced that none of the Colts losses were because of videotaping, and was generally sorry for those players who would have to answer Spygate questions the rest of their career, but instead of recognizing any of that your hatred of all things Dungy makes his comments a "stab in the back."

C'mon DS, you're an attorney. You know the difference between objective fact and subjective opinion. You're rhetoric is easy on the former and heavy on the latter.

 

[Baron Samedi]

I can't believe we are still talking about this.....

 

[DarrylStingley]

Why do you care so much? Why does it bother you?

If it's the "Head Coaches' Code" to not say anything, can you provide a source for that or is it just something you're fabricating?

With regards to the "dark day" comment, Dungy was absolutely correct with his comments...it simply was not a good day for the NFL in the public's eye. He then went on to compliment members of the Patriots organization, reinforced that none of the Colts losses were because of videotaping, and was generally sorry for those players who would have to answer Spygate questions the rest of their career, but instead of recognizing any of that your hatred of all things Dungy makes his comments a "stab in the back."

C'mon DS, you're an attorney. You know the difference between objective fact and subjective opinion. You're rhetoric is easy on the former and heavy on the latter.

Why does it bother me so much?

On the one hand, Dungy is portrayed as this virtual saint. Tony is so special. He's above it all. A real sweetie.

On the other hand, he crapped on BB when he did, he was not consistent with his own supposed value system (compassion, empathy, etc.) and he massively overreacted to somehing he well knew wasn't nearly the crime he was suggesting it was.

Yeah, it was a dark day for the NFL when one coach stuck a knife in the back of another.

What BB did was wrong, but wrong happens all the time, and a coach taking video from the sideline rather than the stands was hardly a "dark day" for the NFL. It was a damn rules violation. Was it also a dark day for the NFL when Dungy and Fisher communicated about how that last game would end?

As far as a source that you don't crap on another person in the same position when they're getting the crap kicked out of them by an overreacting media, if you need one, I don't know what to tell you.

And your c'mon comment....all your saying is that your subjective opinion is better than mine.

 

[DarrylStingley]

I am? People are still talking about it. I simply gave reasons why they gave it the attention they did. I'm not trying to excuse anyone, just simply stating what happened and why.

I've admitted that Dungy's "Dark days for the NFL" was melodramatic. But think about it. Is it a good thing for the head coach of the most successful NFL team this decade to get caught up in a scandal like this? If course it's not.

And yes espianoge is part of the game. There are rules and regulations on what can and cannot be done. New England overstepped their bounds and were punished for it.
No the crime was illegally videotaping. The Hubris is what pissed alot of people off. BB was not fined and the Patriots docked a draft pick for being rude. They were penalized for something that the Commish obviously felt was a greivious enough offense to warrent the biggest fine in NFL history.

The Media didn't do that. Tony Dungy didn't do that. Roger Goddell did that. Now you can speculate about why he did that. Or if other people were also doing the same thing, but the fact remains is that Bill is the one who got caught and anything else is little more than heresay. Unless you can produce the same kind of evidence that the NFL had against Bill of course (which if you do, please share it)

Easterbrook is a retard. He wrote a sentationalist piece of yellow journalism to hype an already overhyped game.

That's not Dungy's fault, and you would have seen a similar article even if the only thing Dungy said was "no comment."

And something that really baffle's me, is why there is more outrage for someone whose really only crime was saying "this is a bad thing for the league" than there is the person who actually commited the offense in question? I really don't understand that.

And really, if you want to blame someone for all this, you really need to look at Bill. Because if he follows the rules, or at least when he gets caught admit that he made a mistake instead of that half assed "we misintrepreted the rules" nonsense and this likely goes away alot quicker or never happened at all.

Because the bottom line, is if you don't want people to call you out for breaking the rules, the best way is not ever break them.

All of that -- every bit of it -- ignores that what Belichick did was not that big a deal.

Eerything you've written is premised on the incorrect notion that Belichick's rules violation was important.

Simply put, his crime was hubris and taking video from the wrong spot, and coaches and commentators who rationally looked at this -- Cowher, Parcells, Jimmie Johnson, Howie Long and Keyshawn Johnson to name a few -- immediately recognized this for what it is.

Your post theorizes that it was more than that, and then layers on top of that that since it was momentous, Dungy had the right to say that it was.

It wasn't momentous and Dungy should have shut up for that reason and because, as noted, crapping on another colleague in the soup aint cool.

 

[tehmackdaddy]

And your c'mon comment....all your saying is that your subjective opinion is better than mine.

And that I have more objective facts to support my opinions. Such as: what was the fine for Dungy not calling a timeout at the end of the Colts/Titans game?

It's too bad you can't see reality, though, as even some Patriots fans have no problem with Dungy's comments. Which would lead one to believe that you just have an issue with Dungy, and anything or everything he does or says is wrong and you'll find something to complain about. Since this is a free country and a message board, that's fine...but it doesn't mean it represents a rational thought process.

 

[Jaric]

On the other hand, he crapped on BB when he did, he was not consistent with his own supposed value system (compassion, empathy, etc.) and he massively overreacted to somehing he well knew wasn't nearly the crime he was suggesting it was.

So wait.

He states that he thinks it's a shame that good players like Brady and Seymour will have to answer questions about this, that a great owner like Bob Kraft will have to answer questions about this, and that anytime anything goes wrong at the Razor people will assume the worst despite the same thing happeneing at every other stadium...

Hw is that not being empathetic or compassionate for those he mentioned?

In fact, since he supposedly "crapped on BB." Please show me ONCE in the entire comments where he even mentions Bill?

He simply stated facts:

It's not good for the NFL, it had nothing to do with their wins against us, and alot of very good people will now have to answer questions they shouldn't have to.

You can not even try to argue that any one of those points is incorrect.

 

[tehmackdaddy]

All of that -- every bit of it -- ignores that what Belichick did was not that big a deal.

If it wasn't "that big a deal," then why was the largest fine in NFL history imposed?

 

[Jaric]

All of that -- every bit of it -- ignores that what Belichick did was not that big a deal.

Please explain the NFL dropping the largest fine in history on him then.

Not the media, not Tony Dungy.

The NFL.

 

[Alcoholic9*]

Please explain the NFL dropping the largest fine in history on him then.

Not the media, not Tony Dungy.

The NFL.

Simple, the memo was sent out. Belichick ignored it. The commisioner was handing out suspensions left and right to let everyone know he was not to be ****ed with. He let Belichick and the Pats know he was not to be ****ed with.

end of story.

 

[Jaric]

Simple, the memo was sent out. Belichick ignored it. The commisioner was handing out suspensions left and right to let everyone know he was not to be ****ed with. He let Belichick and the Pats know he was not to be ****ed with.

end of story.

I'm sure the timing of the incident didn't help Bill's cause.

But do you really think the Commish would issue a historical fine for something he didn't believe was at least a semi-serious issue, simply to send a message?

I'm not out to tar and feather Bill. He paid his punishment and I'm content to move on, but I don't think the commish would react the way he did, simply to rule by fear unless he saw something on the tapes that bothered him.

 

[Alcoholic9*]

But do you really think the Commish would issue a historical fine for something he didn't believe was at least a semi-serious issue, simply to send a message?

This commissioner? Most definitely.

Now if Tags had done it I'd think you were right.

 

[Jaric]

This commissioner? Most definitely.

Now if Tags had done it I'd think you were right.

I see your point, but look at the people Goddell brought the hammer down on prior to Bill.

It's not exactly a group you want to be a member of. So I don't think it's fair to completely write the seriousness of the punishment off to a power trip.

I wouldn't doubt that had something to do with it, but at the same time it doesn't makes sense to come down that hard unless there was something of semi-significance on those tapes.