Neal signed a 4 year deal
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StoneWalled
Shameless Homer
Now, health is the only issue of concern when speaking of longterm continuity. This line's developement will be fun to watch.
This is true. If our C and LT are aight, this line could blossom this year. I'm a bit worried about our C though. In an interview today, he didn't commit to being ready for game 1. But then, supposedly doctors said he should recover 100%.
I feel better about Light. We're talking a young guy with a break. Even if it were a spiral fracture or something it will still grow back stronger...so he should be okay.
Looks like we'll need a couple of FA JAGs for the line, but I don't see the big need to draft anyone...except perhaps a center if a good one is available in the middle rounds.
But Neal signing, along with Troy...that's finally some good news.
I feel better about Light. We're talking a young guy with a break. Even if it were a spiral fracture or something it will still grow back stronger...so he should be okay.
Looks like we'll need a couple of FA JAGs for the line, but I don't see the big need to draft anyone...except perhaps a center if a good one is available in the middle rounds.
But Neal signing, along with Troy...that's finally some good news.
Wandering Athol
Blood in the streets it's up to my ankle
Did Neal get double dealt? I don't know for sure. I know what Borges thinks....
http://www.boston.com/sports/football/articles/2006/04/02/a_poison_in_the_system/?page=3
Hometown discounts are one thing. Unfair advantages are something else. Houston general manager Charley Casserly believes he knows the difference. Casserly was among several teams pursuing Patriots guard Stephen Neal and he thought the Texans had a good chance of landing him. Then the negotiations ended before they ever started, and Casserly smelled a rat. Neal is represented by Jonathan Hurst, an associate whose office address and phone number are the same as his employer, longtime agent Neil Cornrich.
[...]
With that as background, Casserly grew suspicious of the legitimacy of Neal's free agency after Hurst canceled a meeting with the Texans. According to Casserly, Hurst told him, ''It's just not going to work out." Casserly asked how it could since the team had yet to meet with Neal or make a formal offer. When Hurst refused to bring Neal to Houston, Casserly said he was going to call the player directly. ''I left a message on his cellphone," Casserly said. ''I don't know if he got it or not. I never got to talk to Steve. But our offer was a signing bonus between $5 million and $6 million. It probably would have ended up at $5.5 million. The average of the [four-year] deal would have been $3 million a season, including the signing bonus. Go look what they signed him for." The Patriots signed Neal to a four-year contract worth $10.5 million that included a signing bonus of $3.2 million and base salaries of $600,000 in 2006, $1.7 million in '07, $2.1 million in '08, and $2.5 million in '09. The contract includes four yearly workout bonuses of $106,160. The bigger point, in Casserly's mind, was that such deals usually end up being only two-year contracts before they're renegotiated or the player is terminated. If that happens, Neal's deal will bring him a total in bonuses and salary of $5.7 million from the Patriots, only $200,000 more than his signing bonus alone would have been in Houston. ''You figure out what happened," Casserly said. ''He was never really a free agent. It was all just for show." Whatever it was, it was a good deal for the Patriots, who signed Neal to a deal roughly $1.5 million less than he would have received in Houston.
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Couple of thoughts (with some info borrowed from http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm):
1) WTF is Casserly thinking going on the record like this? If it's true that he's under consideration for a job in the league office (and given the Texans regression in the standings last season, IMO, he'd better be checking out his options), I would think that being in bed with RB is not a good way to get the nod from someone who probably has a little sway in how things work there - namely Bob Kraft.
2) Let's make this clear: Casserly takes a potshot at Neal's agent; Borges takes the potshot at the Patriots organization.
3) It's easy for Casserly to say, "Neal would've gotten a ton of money IF he would've just visited," but how are we supposed to know if that's really true. Secondly, we know nothing about the timing of the supposed Texans' "offer" and the Patriots offer, which may have had a deadline attached to it.
4) PFT points out that Neal supposedly had already had 3 visits to other teams in which to determine his market value. Perhaps Casserly is just a moron for wanting to offer "more than market" for Neal? I'll get a better idea on that once/if this "Eric Moulds thing" goes through with Houston.
5) Directly from PFT: "Borges also fails to mention that, if Casserly's version of the events is true, it means that Casserly has admitted to an attempt to negotiate directly with a player who is represented by an NFLPA-certified agent, which arguably violates Article VI, Section 1 of the CBA." Hmmm, this could merit a closer look.
I'd be interested in hearing what ole' Neal himself thinks about all this.
http://www.boston.com/sports/football/articles/2006/04/02/a_poison_in_the_system/?page=3
Hometown discounts are one thing. Unfair advantages are something else. Houston general manager Charley Casserly believes he knows the difference. Casserly was among several teams pursuing Patriots guard Stephen Neal and he thought the Texans had a good chance of landing him. Then the negotiations ended before they ever started, and Casserly smelled a rat. Neal is represented by Jonathan Hurst, an associate whose office address and phone number are the same as his employer, longtime agent Neil Cornrich.
[...]
With that as background, Casserly grew suspicious of the legitimacy of Neal's free agency after Hurst canceled a meeting with the Texans. According to Casserly, Hurst told him, ''It's just not going to work out." Casserly asked how it could since the team had yet to meet with Neal or make a formal offer. When Hurst refused to bring Neal to Houston, Casserly said he was going to call the player directly. ''I left a message on his cellphone," Casserly said. ''I don't know if he got it or not. I never got to talk to Steve. But our offer was a signing bonus between $5 million and $6 million. It probably would have ended up at $5.5 million. The average of the [four-year] deal would have been $3 million a season, including the signing bonus. Go look what they signed him for." The Patriots signed Neal to a four-year contract worth $10.5 million that included a signing bonus of $3.2 million and base salaries of $600,000 in 2006, $1.7 million in '07, $2.1 million in '08, and $2.5 million in '09. The contract includes four yearly workout bonuses of $106,160. The bigger point, in Casserly's mind, was that such deals usually end up being only two-year contracts before they're renegotiated or the player is terminated. If that happens, Neal's deal will bring him a total in bonuses and salary of $5.7 million from the Patriots, only $200,000 more than his signing bonus alone would have been in Houston. ''You figure out what happened," Casserly said. ''He was never really a free agent. It was all just for show." Whatever it was, it was a good deal for the Patriots, who signed Neal to a deal roughly $1.5 million less than he would have received in Houston.
----------------------------------------
Couple of thoughts (with some info borrowed from http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm):
1) WTF is Casserly thinking going on the record like this? If it's true that he's under consideration for a job in the league office (and given the Texans regression in the standings last season, IMO, he'd better be checking out his options), I would think that being in bed with RB is not a good way to get the nod from someone who probably has a little sway in how things work there - namely Bob Kraft.
2) Let's make this clear: Casserly takes a potshot at Neal's agent; Borges takes the potshot at the Patriots organization.
3) It's easy for Casserly to say, "Neal would've gotten a ton of money IF he would've just visited," but how are we supposed to know if that's really true. Secondly, we know nothing about the timing of the supposed Texans' "offer" and the Patriots offer, which may have had a deadline attached to it.
4) PFT points out that Neal supposedly had already had 3 visits to other teams in which to determine his market value. Perhaps Casserly is just a moron for wanting to offer "more than market" for Neal? I'll get a better idea on that once/if this "Eric Moulds thing" goes through with Houston.
5) Directly from PFT: "Borges also fails to mention that, if Casserly's version of the events is true, it means that Casserly has admitted to an attempt to negotiate directly with a player who is represented by an NFLPA-certified agent, which arguably violates Article VI, Section 1 of the CBA." Hmmm, this could merit a closer look.
I'd be interested in hearing what ole' Neal himself thinks about all this.
Ugh. Borges. :Eason:
Borges has zero credibility, IMO. He goes looking for crap like this. I'd like just 5 minutes with that creep...but then, he only picks on people he knows won't or can't hit back.
But thanks for posting it. I'd hate to have to click on a link and find out it was a Wrong, Stupid and Bully Borges' page. Then the loser would get a click hit.
He sure does have issues with the Patriots though. He'd be perfect working for a hack paper like the NY Post, or even better, the National Enquirer...they don't mind obsessed, turd-brained, chip-on-their-shoulder fools with a pencil.
And now, let me tell you how I *really* think about Bully Borges.
Borges has zero credibility, IMO. He goes looking for crap like this. I'd like just 5 minutes with that creep...but then, he only picks on people he knows won't or can't hit back.
But thanks for posting it. I'd hate to have to click on a link and find out it was a Wrong, Stupid and Bully Borges' page. Then the loser would get a click hit.
He sure does have issues with the Patriots though. He'd be perfect working for a hack paper like the NY Post, or even better, the National Enquirer...they don't mind obsessed, turd-brained, chip-on-their-shoulder fools with a pencil.
And now, let me tell you how I *really* think about Bully Borges.
Hawg73
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Good stuff, WA.
I bought the Globe yesterday and like a moth to a flame went straight to Borges' column.
The piece on Neal was absolutely classic Borgesian much-raking, featuring a combo of slander, innuendo and fact-less speculation to make his point.
So what if Neal DID sign for less? Isn't that a good thing for us? and I agree that Casserly's comments were very curious, but did serve to illustrate that Neal's value around the league is now substantial. There aren't a whole lot of guards in the NFL who are worth 3-3.5 million a year.
Casserly has been an info conduit to Borges for years and Ronnie is always touting him as being one of the best GMs in the league, but after some initial success it appears the Texans are floundering. Just don't expect to hear any ripjobs from the Evil One directed at one of his prime moles in the league no matter how bad they play.
THAT will never happen. Ronnie takes care of his friends.
I think 90% of his problem with the Pats and Belichick is because his inside sources have all dried up due to team "secrecy" and he now has to actually work to cobble a story together.
Too effing bad.
I bought the Globe yesterday and like a moth to a flame went straight to Borges' column.
The piece on Neal was absolutely classic Borgesian much-raking, featuring a combo of slander, innuendo and fact-less speculation to make his point.
So what if Neal DID sign for less? Isn't that a good thing for us? and I agree that Casserly's comments were very curious, but did serve to illustrate that Neal's value around the league is now substantial. There aren't a whole lot of guards in the NFL who are worth 3-3.5 million a year.
Casserly has been an info conduit to Borges for years and Ronnie is always touting him as being one of the best GMs in the league, but after some initial success it appears the Texans are floundering. Just don't expect to hear any ripjobs from the Evil One directed at one of his prime moles in the league no matter how bad they play.
THAT will never happen. Ronnie takes care of his friends.
I think 90% of his problem with the Pats and Belichick is because his inside sources have all dried up due to team "secrecy" and he now has to actually work to cobble a story together.
Too effing bad.
My thought was that Casserly never made the offer and, after the fact, can say he'd offer anything. Not sure what his motivation would be to throw out numbers that were never discussed. But the whole thing is classic Borges. Either Casserly is trying to stir up some trouble or Borges is grossly misinterpreting what Casserly may have actually told him.
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Equally likely possibility. Stephen Neal didn't want to play for a piece of crap team in Houston or for a doddering fool like Casserly.
Number Cruncher
Time to go.... NOW
Listen, I hate Borges as much as anyone, but there does seem to be a little more than his incredible bias going on here. This goes beyond the typical Borges muck-raking in that he quotes Casserly directly. Casserly isn't a yahoo, he is "old school" and probably didn't make those comments lightly. I don't think it's fair to rationalize that Casserly didn't make an offer that he wasn't allowed to or the fact that Houston is a giant sinkhole of a team (see Eric Moulds). The fact is that per Neal himself that money may not be number one but certainly is "up there" on his list of priorities.
Combine all this with the fact that the "kicker who shall remain nameless" had to fire this guy before getting his new deal dovetails with this accusation.
Where there is smoke, there usually is fire and I don't think this can be a long term strategy. One guy's opinion....
Combine all this with the fact that the "kicker who shall remain nameless" had to fire this guy before getting his new deal dovetails with this accusation.
Where there is smoke, there usually is fire and I don't think this can be a long term strategy. One guy's opinion....
Hawg73
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But.....
What of it? Neal is by all accounts an intelligent guy. He went to college. Why does Borges feel the need to "help" him see the light?
Nobody forced him to sign that deal and he could have hired the same guy as Adam did if he felt under-represented. He chose not to. He chose to resign with the Pats.
The thought of BB being in bed with an agent to get below-market deals strikes me as ludicrous and that is Borges' indirect contention.
Maybe, just maybe Neal is happy earning a couple of million dollars a year and staying with a duplicitous, corrupt organization like the New England Patriots.
I mean, it is just barely possible that some guys actually LIKE being here, despite what Ronnie suggests.
What of it? Neal is by all accounts an intelligent guy. He went to college. Why does Borges feel the need to "help" him see the light?
Nobody forced him to sign that deal and he could have hired the same guy as Adam did if he felt under-represented. He chose not to. He chose to resign with the Pats.
The thought of BB being in bed with an agent to get below-market deals strikes me as ludicrous and that is Borges' indirect contention.
Maybe, just maybe Neal is happy earning a couple of million dollars a year and staying with a duplicitous, corrupt organization like the New England Patriots.
I mean, it is just barely possible that some guys actually LIKE being here, despite what Ronnie suggests.
Wandering Athol
Blood in the streets it's up to my ankle
I think the story is an attempt to flush out of the Cornrich/Hurst group some information as to their connections with BB and Patriots management. If so, RB may be actually doing some good here believe-it-or-not.
If I was a player represented by the group, I'd sure as hell want to know if there were potential conflict-of-interest problems I wasn't aware of. But, did RB make an attempt to contact the agent(s)? I don't know; he doesn't mention (shoddy reporting if he didn't at least try). You'd think somebody would try to get them on the phone for a few follow-up questions now.
We're talking about big bucks here folks, and the hint of foul play can destroy a business where integrity (or at least the appearance of) is one of the main selling points. Even if they won't go on the public record, the Cornrich group I think is going to have some 'spaining to do to it's clients now (or at least to the ones that read the Globe). Of course, maybe they already have, and the whole story is moot?
If I was a player represented by the group, I'd sure as hell want to know if there were potential conflict-of-interest problems I wasn't aware of. But, did RB make an attempt to contact the agent(s)? I don't know; he doesn't mention (shoddy reporting if he didn't at least try). You'd think somebody would try to get them on the phone for a few follow-up questions now.
We're talking about big bucks here folks, and the hint of foul play can destroy a business where integrity (or at least the appearance of) is one of the main selling points. Even if they won't go on the public record, the Cornrich group I think is going to have some 'spaining to do to it's clients now (or at least to the ones that read the Globe). Of course, maybe they already have, and the whole story is moot?
Did Casserly and Borges ever stop to consider the idea that Neal didn't want to consider Houston under any circumstances? The fact that Casserly left a message with Neal directly and he didn't return his call would be a little hint.
So here's the timeline if I'm reading this correctly:
1. Hurst schedules Neal to visit Houston.
2. Hurst calls Casserly to cancel the visit.
3. Casserly leaves message with Neal, no reply back.
4. Neal agrees to terms with Pats
Somewhere between 1 and 3, Casserly implies that he presented those contract numbers to Hurst even though he never sat down and interviewed Neal. He also implies that Hurst never passed along those figures to Neal.
So, one of four things is going on here:
1. Casserly is lying.
2. Borges is completely twisting the facts.
3. Hurst is a scumbag who's risking decertification and/or a lawsuit from Neal.
4. Neal just wasn't interested in Houston.
So here's the timeline if I'm reading this correctly:
1. Hurst schedules Neal to visit Houston.
2. Hurst calls Casserly to cancel the visit.
3. Casserly leaves message with Neal, no reply back.
4. Neal agrees to terms with Pats
Somewhere between 1 and 3, Casserly implies that he presented those contract numbers to Hurst even though he never sat down and interviewed Neal. He also implies that Hurst never passed along those figures to Neal.
So, one of four things is going on here:
1. Casserly is lying.
2. Borges is completely twisting the facts.
3. Hurst is a scumbag who's risking decertification and/or a lawsuit from Neal.
4. Neal just wasn't interested in Houston.
Number Cruncher
Time to go.... NOW
bideau said:
I'd say more than one is possible...
#2 has occurred before, so it's possible its happening now.
#3 seems more plausible, in light of the "kicker" issues and how fast he got a deal after his recent change. Again, plausible, not definite.
#4 has potential, but Neals own comments about hoping to be closer to the west coast and how money is an extremely critical factor indicate he would have left New England. Whether Houston meets the test is debateable, but the mindset of a lot NFL players, particularly younger ones, indicates Houston (or some other sh*thole) would be acceptable. (See Damian Woody, Eric Moulds). Sure, some guys prefer championships (Rodney Harrision), but Neals comments lead me to believe he is the former, not the latter.
#1 I discount. Who is he trying to "get". The Pats?? The agent?? Is he trying to placate a fanbase?? I'm not sure I see his motivation...
Even if this story is false, it's the APPEARANCE of a conflict of interest that worries me. Not that I have a solution, mind you.
dashoe
Well-known member
Some of this ha sto have a little truth to it. It seems to echo what was happening to AV until he switched agents.
If it is true, i'm sure once Neal hears the offer Houston was willing to give, shit'll hit the fan in Patriot land.
I know one thing, if these types of rumors continue, it'll be very hard to get ANY decent player in a Patriots uniform.
I LOVE IT!
If it is true, i'm sure once Neal hears the offer Houston was willing to give, shit'll hit the fan in Patriot land.
I know one thing, if these types of rumors continue, it'll be very hard to get ANY decent player in a Patriots uniform.
I LOVE IT!
Annihilus
Zen Powered by Death Buddhists
dashoe said:
Well, the Colts need something to help get them over the playoff hump.....and since it doesn't look like anything they're doing as far as signing the player they really need (i.e.: running back) is going to do the trick, why not pin your hopes on this rumor.
It's something to dream for, anyway.
Plus you got you a kicker now, so you're all set.
For #3 to be plausible, one would need to come up with the motive for why the agent would be willing for his client (and thus him) to receive less money. The only motive I could come up, would be if Kraft was paying the agent a kickback, to get players to sign here for below the market. I'm rather skeptical of that, to say the least.
________
bubbler pipe
dashoe
Well-known member
dchester said:
For #3 to be plausible, one would need to come up with the motive for why the agent would be willing for his client (and thus him) to receive less money. The only motive I could come up, would be if Kraft was paying the agent a kickback, to get players to sign here for below the market. I'm rather skeptical of that, to say the least. [/QUOTE]
Very good point, but usually, where there is smoke, there is usually fire.