OT - Another defeat in Indianapolis

[SatanManning]

For the first time in 40 years, an incumbent mayor was voted out of office. Bart Peterson (D) lost to Greg Ballard (R) by a convincing 4 percentage point margin. Chief amongst the issues were taxes. Property taxes skyrocketed this past year, then in the wake of that, local income taxes were increased 65%, and there were many complaints about the "restaurant tax" put in place to help pay for the new stadium. Many saw this as public welfare for a private business and resented the hell out of Irsay and Peterson for it.

I know my next door neighbor no longer roots for the Colts because of it.... he actually became a Patriots fan because of how Bob Kraft went about building Gillette.

 

[EdgerrinJames]

I know my next door neighbor no longer roots for the Colts because of it.... he actually became a Patriots fan because of how Bob Kraft went about building Gillette.

You should really think about relocating.

 

[RoadGrader]

Chief amongst the issues were taxes. Property taxes skyrocketed this past year, then in the wake of that, local income taxes were increased 65%

SM......just curious,

what is/are the "local income taxes" that were increased 65% ---- what services were they earmarked for?

what was the average net $$ impact in property taxes and why did they rise so dramatically?

I am assuming that these were levied against City of Indianapolis residents only

 

[CleatMarks]

Are we going to see the moving trucks at RCA in the middle of the night again? :LOL:

 

[tehmackdaddy]

I guess some people just don't get that most owners don't have a quarter billion dollars lying around to invest in a stadium. If that's the type of fan your neighbor is, you can have him. He'll probably be wearing a Adrian Peterson jersey next.

 

[ColtFan81]

Peterson wanted to fund the stadium by putting slot machines in the local horse racing tracks. The far right bible beaters shot that down. We all know that gambling will send you to hell>)

The property tax thing had nothing to do with the stadium. It was state wide. What happened was that properties were not properly assessed for decades. Houses worth 1mil were still paying the same tax rates that they would have payed 40yrs ago, appx 3-4K.

All homes were reassessed and were forced to pay the proper amount which in some cases was thousands of dollars more than what they were paying.

The challenger was able to convince voters that this was Petersons fault.

Peterson was a good mayor and really cared about Indianapolis. He was asked to run for Governer but declined because he wanted to focus on turning Indy into a great city.

I know that there has been some jeers directed towards my town on this board but I wish you could all have seen this town 10-15yrs ago and then see it today. It's much cleaner and there is much more to do downtown now. Conseco fieldhouse has been awarded the best sports venue in the U.S. a couple of times now and Lucas Oil Stadium is going to be right up there.

Everyone wants to complain about the "brain drain" here which is college graduates leaving to take jobs in other cities at a high rate, but noone wants to bite the bullet that comes with building attractions and providing nightlife along with other social motivations for a 22yr old to stay in town.

Sorry, thats my political rant for the day

 

[Major A$$hole*]

Peterson wanted to fund the stadium by putting slot machines in the local horse racing tracks. The far right bible beaters shot that down. We all know that gambling will send you to hell>)

Was St. Dungy leading them?

I know that there has been some jeers directed towards my town on this board but I wish you could all have seen this town 10-15yrs ago and then see it today. It's much cleaner and there is much more to do downtown now.

Oh really. What there is a McDonalds there now?ROFL

 

[IU_Knightmare]

Re: Re: OT - Another defeat in Indianapolis

SM......just curious,

what is/are the "local income taxes" that were increased 65% ---- what services were they earmarked for?

what was the average net $$ impact in property taxes and why did they rise so dramatically?

I am assuming that these were levied against City of Indianapolis residents only

The county income tax rate was 1%, and Peterson upped that to 1.65% through a city county council vote not too long ago. This is supposed to generate an additonal 90 million per year in taxes, and the money was earmarked for public safety (police, fire etc). The tax is levied against the residents of Marion County.

As for S/M, the money for the new stadium and convention center expansion is being generated via an increase in the sales tax on food and beverages purchased at restaraunts. The increase was 1%, and only affects Marion County and the surrounding (doughnut) counties that voted for it. The doughnut counties were enticed by being able to keep half of the increase for their general fund, and submitting the other half to Marion County to pay for the Stadium/Convention Center expansion.

As far as Former Mayor Peterson receiving any real blowback from the Stadium/Convention center isssue, I find that hard to believe and so do most if not all of the political pundits from print, radio and TV here. You aren't going to find too many people upset that the stadium/cc expansion was funded via an alternative and completely optional tax. The key issues for turning out the Demo Mayor as well as turning the CCC from a 15-14 Demo control to a 17-12 Republican sweep were the following:

1) The State Property Tax Increases. These were ridiculous, and were most insidious to the people living on the North Side of Indy, who are rich and mostly Republican, and saw their property taxes increase 300-400%. That brought them out en masse to vote. And while State Property Tax increases aren't the Mayor's fault, him increasing the County Income tax at nearly the same time put him in the corsshairs of many disgruntled voters. That brought the independant voter, the Reagan Democrats and the po'd Republican vote out.

2) Crime: Violent crime and Property Crime has increased during Peterson's 8 year regin as Mayor, and we have less cops on the steet now than when he took over. He ran in 1999 on putting 400 new Cops on the street with Federal grant money. He did that, but then through not replacing the officer lost via attrition (retirement, leaving the force) and then losing the Federal Grant money, this had a negative net affect on officers on the street. People are leaving Indianapolis City Proper in droves for the suburbs and the bedroom communities in the doughnut counties surrounding Marion County.

3) Apathy/Overconfidence: The Marion County Republican Committee didn't fund Ballards campaign nearly like it should have, because they didn't feel he coul unseat the popular incumbent. He was working with pocket change for his campaign compared to Peterson's warchest. That created an environment where Ballard was able to sneak up on Peterson, and before he knew what hit him, it was too late. He didn't campaign nearly hard enough, because the underestimated their opponent and the anger of the average Hoosier voter.

 

[mikiemo83]

Oh really. What there is a McDonalds there now?ROFL

Indy had things to do, the problem I had was after a Sunday game the town shut down unless you went to the circle with all the olts fans, the Bar in my hotel closed an hour after the game


but the nightlife is getting better, Cigars bars and other places looked like they could have been a decent place to be

also like 81 said it is a pretty clean city - while I didn't really site see I did walk around on Monday and was kind of impressed....it wasn't the F-troop type of place I expected

 

[Major A$$hole*]

I guess some people just don't get that most owners don't have a quarter billion dollars lying around to invest in a stadium.

I guess some people think that its highway robery to have taxpayers pay so that a millionaire can have a shinny new palace for his team. That way he can charge them an arm and a leg to be able to attend.

 

[IU_Knightmare]

I guess some people think that its highway robery to have taxpayers pay so that a millionaire can have a shinny new palace for his team. That way he can charge them an arm and a leg to be able to attend.

Yes, yes...we all know this. However, the Stadium and Convention Center expansion project in Indy accomplished alot more than provide a place for the Colts to play their 10+ home games a year. The entire project will cost about a billion, 700mil to the stadium, 300 mill to the CC expansion. The Stadium has over 100 event dates a year. Irsay kicked in 100 million of his own money, so it seems reasonable. And since it isn't an income or forced tax, and is a restaraunt tax, nobody "HAS" to pay this. And the extra 4 pennies isn't going to keep Bubba from buying his Mickey D's value meal.

Also by building the new stadium, we lock up a spot in the rotation for the Men's and Women's NCAA Final Four, as well as the ability to expand our Convention Center to the only viable site, the spot that the current stadium occupies.

It kills mutliple birds with one stone, and allows our Downtown to stay competative in the Convention Business, and to continue our growth towards becoming a world class city.

 

[LVent*]

I guess some people just don't get that most owners don't have a quarter billion dollars lying around to invest in a stadium.

No, but they own an NFL franchise which is a very good collateral for a loan from an institution. Your telling me they couldnt do it if they wanted?

 

[Major A$$hole*]

Yes, yes...we all know this. However, the Stadium and Convention Center expansion project in Indy accomplished alot more than provide a place for the Colts to play their 10+ home games a year. The entire project will cost about a billion, 700mil to the stadium, 300 mill to the CC expansion. The Stadium has over 100 event dates a year. Irsay kicked in 100 million of his own money, so it seems reasonable.

Also by building the new stadium, we lock up a spot in the rotation for the Men's and Women's NCAA Final Four, as well as the ability to expand our Convention Center to the only viable site, the spot that the current stadium occupies.

It kills mutliple birds with one stone, and allows our Downtown to stay competative in the Convention Business, and to continue our growth towards becoming a world class city.

100 mill out of 700 seems reasonable. You have got to be kidding me. Will he only recive 1/7'th of the gate income too? How about the in stadium advertising? Sorry, but if a millionare wants a new stadium he either should be able to foot the majority of the bill or sell to someone who can.
And the media calls Bob Kraft cheap.

 

[IU_Knightmare]

100 mill out of 700 seems reasonable. You have got to be kidding me. Will he only recive 1/7'th of the gate income too? How about the in stadium advertising? Sorry, but if a millionare wants a new stadium he either should be able to foot the majority of the bill or sell to someone who can.
And the media calls Bob Kraft cheap.

I don't really GAFF what the media calls Bob Kraft....but yes, when you examine the larger picture (ie, increased revenue from the Stadium, the expanded Convention Center, the contracts with event promoters, the more people spending more money in our city) along with the fact that Irsay pays 1/7 of the stadium cost when his team only plays on 1/10 of the dates as well as being funded by an optional tax, then yes, it is reasonable.

It is completely silly to the point of asinine to debate this with you, because your point is a very general and narrow one (these rich guys shoud pay their own way) while you lack the knowledge of most if not all of the specifics of our City, our Capitol Improvement Board, or large Convention Business, how Sports and Convention Tourism is the lifeblood of the Indianapolis economy etc etc etc. This was not some kneejerk reaction by a bunch of sports fans that kept the Colts here in a new stadium, but one that was well calculated, thought out and neccessary in continuing our City's overall growth.

It was a worthwhile trade for our community, and does indeed benefit our city in both the short term and the long run.

 

[mikiemo83]

so who holds the title to the joint - the city correct?

if Irsay does the city got screwed, if the city does and they lease the place to the Colts for those games for $1 a game and split the concession revenue but Irsay keeps the Box revenue it would be a fair deal

 

[Major A$$hole*]

so who holds the title to the joint - the city correct?

if Irsay does the city got screwed, if the city does and they lease the place to the Colts for those games for $1 a game and split the concession revenue but Irsay keeps the Box revenue it would be a fair deal

That doesn't matter Mikie. Didn't you hear. The stadium will increase revenues of the great town of Indianapolis. Thus its totally justified. No need to get into the nitty gritty.

 

[IU_Knightmare]

so who holds the title to the joint - the city correct?

if Irsay does the city got screwed, if the city does and they lease the place to the Colts for those games for $1 a game and split the concession revenue but Irsay keeps the Box revenue it would be a fair deal

The City owns the stadium. The Colts lease it for 250k per year. Colts get the gameday revenue. Colts also participate in non-Colts related revenue, capped at 3.5 million per year. Colts also recieve the naming rights.

As part of the agreement, the Colts are required to play all games at the Stadium until 2034, and are forbidden from negotiating relocation. The Colts are required to maintain its headquarters and training facility in Indianapolis. The City is no longer required to maintain a prior agreement made with the Colts to make up the difference between the team's annual revenues and the NFL median ends.

So basically:

The Colts keep the revenue the Colts generate from their 10 pre/reg season dates, Stadium naming rights, playoff games and a kiss of 3.5 million per for non colts events.

The City maintains ownership of the venue itself, and other than the 3.5 million kiss on non-Colts events, they get to keep whatever they negotiate for the 90+ non Colts events per year, as well at 250k per year rent from the Colts. They also guarantee NFL football in Indy until 2034 minimum.

It isn't the best deal out there, but is certainly isn't the worst deal going.

 

[mikiemo83]

no, a much better deal than I thought it would be


thanks

 

[tehmackdaddy]

I guess some people think that its highway robery to have taxpayers pay so that a millionaire can have a shinny new palace for his team. That way he can charge them an arm and a leg to be able to attend.

What do taxpayers pay? Do you even know the breakdown in percentages of where the funding is coming from? Judging by your comments, no. If you'd take a look at that, you wouldn't call it "highway robbery."

 

[tehmackdaddy]

No, but they own an NFL franchise which is a very good collateral for a loan from an institution. Your telling me they couldnt do it if they wanted?

It isn't just a foosball stadium. It will be owned and operated by the city, for events other than the Colts. Thus, it makes more sense to have the city pay for it.