Patriots pick T Joe Thuney of North Carolina State at No. 78.

[patfan64]

I just watched a film of Thuney playing LT for NC State vs. a very good Louisville DL.

FWIW, you can see why he doesn't give up a lot of sacks. He ain't a heavy-legged waist-bender. He gets out of his unusually upright stance very quickly and his kick-slide is textbook. I was impressed with his ability to mirror. Nobody got outside on him, but I couldn't find a hell of a lot of stuff to watch, but he was excellent in that one.

He isn't that big, but he showed me the ability to move large guys backwards on running plays and also that he has a knack for positioning himself to hook or screen guys out with those feet. He appears well-coached.

He does remind me of Matt Light, but I don't think Matt Light's feet were quite as good as this guy.

You'd think Thuney'd be vulnerable to bull rushes, but Light was almost identical in size and he never got bulled for some reason. Thuney is stronger than he looks. Another reason he reminded me of Light.

Thuney doesn't seem to get thrown around like Jordan Devey, Klein or some of the other young guys we've had. Good core strength, I guess.

For this season my guess is that the staff will see if he can handle the swing tackle for now and bye-bye Marcus Cannon, but he doesn't strike me as a career backup or somebody who will need a year on the bench in order to contribute. He can play.

Hopefully, Scar can wave the magic wand here.....

 

[Roberto71]

There's a hell of a lot of positive sentiment out there for Thuney from football people. Mike Reiss heard this from someone in the know.

On third-round offensive lineman Joe Thuney: "Love the kid. I think he is going to be really good for them for a long time. … Typical Dante Scarnecchia pick. ... Tough kid, better athlete than he looks."

Various NFL teams think he will end up at centre, they like his toughness and intelligence

but are skeptical he's a fit at tackle -- where he played his final season in college -- because of his arm length (32 1/4).

 

[Hawg73]

Various NFL teams think he will end up at centre, they like his toughness and intelligence

but are skeptical he's a fit at tackle -- where he played his final season in college -- because of his arm length (32 1/4).

I compared him to Matt Light and recalled that Light was supposed to have short arms, too, so I looked it up. His arms were an inch longer than Thuney's.

Having relatively short arms didn't prevent Matt Light from being a really good LT in the NFL for 10 years or so as long as he wasn't playing against Jason Taylor or John Abraham. Those two guys were his kryptonite, but Light regularly stoned some of the best pass rushers in history, such as Dwight Freeney, and was always an outstanding run blocker.

I guess we'll just have to see what is in store for Mr. Thuney, but I'm not going to rule him out as a potential Tackle until Dante decides its not in the cards.

 

[king of kings]

I wonder if he can compete for the starting RG spot. We he just be happy as the Swing tackle. Right now IMO it's Solder , cooper , stork , Wendell & Vollmer as the starting O-line .

 

[Hawg73]

I wonder if he can compete for the starting RG spot. We he just be happy as the Swing tackle. Right now IMO it's Solder , cooper , stork , Wendell & Vollmer as the starting O-line .

What makes you think Cooper will start at LG?

As far as I know Shaq Mason is the incumbent starter and he should be unless he gets beaten out in camp. Cooper simply may not be as good as he was supposed to be.

I'm also not ready to pull Tre Jackson off life support because he had his knee scoped in March. That kid had a good rookie year outside of the AFCCG. Far as I'm concerned he was our best OL. Not that anybody was great.

You make it sound like he is already history.

 

[king of kings]

What makes you think Cooper will start at LG? As far as I know Shaq Mason is the incumbent starter and he should be unless he gets beaten out in camp. Cooper simply may not be as good as he was supposed to be. I'm also not ready to pull Tre Jackson off life support because he had his knee scoped in March. That kid had a good rookie year outside of the AFCCG. Far as I'm concerned he was our best OL. Not that anybody was great. You make it sound like he is already history.

I just can't see pats making that trade . If its wasn't for a least a starting guard . There are concerns with Jackson knees .

 

[German_Patriot]

I wonder if he can compete for the starting RG spot. We he just be happy as the Swing tackle. Right now IMO it's Solder , cooper , stork , Wendell & Vollmer as the starting O-line .

Wendell is not even signed and I don't see that changing anytime soon. No way he's starting for the Patriots this year.

 

[Defsoul]

How Joe Thuney's measurables compare to other draft prospects. #1 vs other guards. #2 vs other offensive tackles:
<iframe src="http://mockdraftable.com/player_embed/5462/selected/graph/" width="500" height="620" frameborder="0" scrolling="no"></iframe>
<iframe src="http://mockdraftable.com/player_embed/5462/selected/graph/" width="500" height="620" frameborder="0" scrolling="no"></iframe>

 

[HSanders]

So very athletic, it seems. That's a Scar thing, is it not?

 

[headcase]

I just can't see pats making that trade . If its wasn't for a least a starting guard . There are concerns with Jackson knees .

I read somewhere, maybe this morning, that Cooper was basically a throw in on that trade. They traded Jones because they wanted to move him when he had value, so they got the best deal they could.

SSDD

 

[king of kings]

I read somewhere, maybe this morning, that Cooper was basically a throw in on that trade. They traded Jones because they wanted to move him when he had value, so they got the best deal they could.

SSDD

They didn't pick up his option. So he's on a 1 year deal.

 

[king of kings]

I read somewhere, maybe this morning, that Cooper was basically a throw in on that trade. They traded Jones because they wanted to move him when he had value, so they got the best deal they could.

SSDD

OK I admit I was wrong. Wendell did have a good year. Last time scar was the O-line coach. Cooper on a 1 year deal. If he don't work out. They can give it to Jackson or thueny. If Vollmer is resigned .

 

[R+L=Negan]

Thuney only adds to depth and versatility of this line. It'll be a big strength imo. Scar has basically hand picked these guys and last year was just ridiculous with all the different combos.

This is prideful group, team and coach were talking about.

Smart, tough kid with rocks for hands. He'll fit right in.

 

[chevss454]

The scouting website Pro Football Focus have provided their grades for the New England Patriots offensive line so we can best formulate a unit to protect quarterback Tom Brady and to block for running backs Dion Lewis and LeGarrette Blount.
It doesn't take a professional scout to realize that the Patriots offensive line was abysmal last year. It was also incredibly apparent that last season's unit was awful across the board. Here's how the players grade out. Rookies are not included.


The Centers

Depth Chart: David Andrews, Bryan Stork
​

In a quick twist, Andrews rated out one rank better than Stork (20th vs 21st), but both were below average starters. Andrews was actually the team's best pass blocker and it wasn't even close- Stork was the 2nd worst pass blocker of the Patriots interior linemen.
On the other hand, Stork was the team's 2nd best run blocker and his size advantage over Andrews (nearly 2 inches and 20 pounds) can't be taught. Andrews was the team's 2nd worst run blocker on the interior, but it's not that he was bad; it's just that the Patriots interior linemen were actually very good run blockers.
Andrews offered a similar level of ability in both the passing and running game, while Stork was a far superior run blocker than pass blocker. This consistency, as well as the Patriots reliance on the passing game, is what gives Andrews the edge over Stork.
Andrews and Stork rated as the 2nd and 3rd best offensive linemen on the team.


The Guards

Depth Chart: Josh Kline, Shaq Mason, Jonathan Cooper, Tre Jackson
​

Kline was the team's best offensive lineman at any position. He was the best run blocker on the squad and rated as a very good #2 guard; the issue for the Patriots is that Kline was asked to be the team's #1 guard. Kline was the team's 3rd best pass blocker, but his performance dropped as soon as he injured his shoulder.
Hopefully a player like Mason can continue his ascent and become a viable #1 guard next season, to reduce pressure on Kline. Mason was the team's 2nd best guard and the offensive line's 3rd best run blocker behind Kline and Stork. Unfortunately Mason rated out as the worst pass blocker on the interior line- something that the coaching staff will not overlook.
Cooper is now the team's 3rd highest rated guard, offering a balance in both the passing and running game. While he's still below-average in both from a leaguewide standpoint, he rates as the Patriots 4th best pass blocker and 6th best run blocker.
Jackson was the worst interior lineman on the roster. While Mason and Cooper rated out as mid-level #2 guards, Jackson ranked 62nd in the league at the position and performed at a replacement level. He, sadly, was the Patriots 2nd best pass blocker on the entire offensive line, but he was the 2nd worst run blocker. He's going to be fighting for a roster spot with 3rd round rookie Joe Thuney in the fold, along with 6th round rookie Ted Karras.
The Tackles

Depth Chart: Nate Solder, Sebastian Vollmer, Cameron Fleming, Marcus Cannon, LaAdrian Waddle
​

For as bad as the interior line performed, every single tackle graded worse than Jackson. That's how awful the tackles were in 2015 and it raises some concerns as to why the Patriots didn't focus more resources on the edge.
Solder and Vollmer received nearly identical grades in both pass protection and run blocking as both were regarded as mid-level #2 tackles. Hopefully a healthy season from Solder and the return of Dante Scarnecchia will help Solder re-find his top tier ability.
Surprisingly, Fleming was the Patriots next best tackle, just ahead of Cannon. For the sake of comparison, Fleming and Cannon were regarded in the same tier as Jackson and should be considered replacement level prospects. Both players were atrocious pass blockers and sub-par run blockers.
For as bad as the line performed, LaAdrian Waddle was the only player to rank outside of a starting position in Pro Football Focus' rankings (ie: top 32 center, top 64 tackle or guard). Waddle was the 77th rated tackle and was the Patriots worst pass blocker and run blocker. Of course a lot of his grade is linked to his time with the Lions, so perhaps a season with the Patriots will elevate his performance.

---​

The Patriots do not have an above-average starter at any position, according to their 2015 performances. Kline was the best player and that rightfully raises plenty of concerns.

According to PFF, the best pass blocking line would be: Solder - Kline - Andrews - Jackson - Vollmer
The best run blocking line would be: Solder - Kline - Stork - Mason - Vollmer
The best Patriots offensive line would read: Solder - Kline - Andrews - Mason - Vollmer.
​

This is a fair line-up, although it's more likely that Stork will be the starting center due to his size. Perhaps more discussion about Andrews as a more balanced option at center is needed.
Cooper would serve as the team's top back-up guard, with a real chance to beat out Mason in order to provide superior pass blocking. Mason's run blocker is undeniably superior to Cooper, but he will have to prove that his playoff performances in pass protection weren't a fluke.
The competition on the offensive line will be the most important story line this offseason- probably even more important to the total success of the year than Brady's pending 4-game suspension. The fact that the Patriots didn't add any help at tackle- not including Thuney- deserves scrutiny, and a lot weighs on the continued development and health of the young interior linemen.

http://www.patspulpit.com/2016/5/11...s-set-the-patriots-offensive-line-depth-chart

 

[mikiemo83]

the Patriots interior linemen were actually very good run blockers this confuses me, the team could not run but they rank out well.

 

[Hawg73]

http://www.patspulpit.com/2016/5/11...s-set-the-patriots-offensive-line-depth-chart

Who am I to question Pro Football Focus?

Nobody, but I'm calling bullshit on them anyways.

I don't know how they come up with this stuff, but if they have somebody qualified to break down game film and that person or persons actually broke down every snap, then I'd be very surprised. I believe this was done by random sampling.

These guys way overrate, imo, Josh Kline. I must be an idiot, because he gets zero push on anybody and gets shredded by plus strength.

Trey Jackson tailed off late in the season after getting dinged up, that is clear, but he played some pretty good football as a rookie starter and suddenly he is awful and in danger of being cut. I doubt that. He was our best interior player, not fvcking Kline.

Something should have been said about the fact that even though the interior line was grossly inexperienced there was no difference in the mess that was the constantly rotating cast of players and positions even before mounting injuries made that non-optional. Jon Gruden noted that was a very curious plan given the extreme lack of experience in the interior and I agree with him.

I'm well familiar with the "the Patriots always do this" argument, but expecting guys that green to process all the info and variables they were faced with may simply not have been the most brilliant strategy to keeping Brady upright and occasionally opening a hole.

However, if somebody wants to tell me the line would have actually been worse without the chinese fire-drill approach, then please feel free.

 

[chevss454]

Who am I to question Pro Football Focus?

Nobody, but I'm calling bullshit on them anyways.

I don't know how they come up with this stuff, but if they have somebody qualified to break down game film and that person or persons actually broke down every snap, then I'd be very surprised. I believe this was done by random sampling.

These guys way overrate, imo, Josh Kline. I must be an idiot, because he gets zero push on anybody and gets shredded by plus strength.

Trey Jackson tailed off late in the season after getting dinged up, that is clear, but he played some pretty good football as a rookie starter and suddenly he is awful and in danger of being cut. I doubt that. He was our best interior player, not fvcking Kline.

Something should have been said about the fact that even though the interior line was grossly inexperienced there was no difference in the mess that was the constantly rotating cast of players and positions even before mounting injuries made that non-optional. Jon Gruden noted that was a very curious plan given the extreme lack of experience in the interior and I agree with him.

I'm well familiar with the "the Patriots always do this" argument, but expecting guys that green to process all the info and variables they were faced with may simply not have been the most brilliant strategy to keeping Brady upright and occasionally opening a hole.

However, if somebody wants to tell me the line would have actually been worse without the chinese fire-drill approach, then please feel free.

I thought you'd get a kick out of that article.

 

[mikiemo83]

Who am I to question Pro Football Focus?

Nobody, but I'm calling bullshit on them anyways.

I don't know how they come up with this stuff, but if they have somebody qualified to break down game film and that person or persons actually broke down every snap, then I'd be very surprised. I believe this was done by random sampling.

These guys way overrate, imo, Josh Kline. I must be an idiot, because he gets zero push on anybody and gets shredded by plus strength.

Trey Jackson tailed off late in the season after getting dinged up, that is clear, but he played some pretty good football as a rookie starter and suddenly he is awful and in danger of being cut. I doubt that. He was our best interior player, not fvcking Kline.

Something should have been said about the fact that even though the interior line was grossly inexperienced there was no difference in the mess that was the constantly rotating cast of players and positions even before mounting injuries made that non-optional. Jon Gruden noted that was a very curious plan given the extreme lack of experience in the interior and I agree with him.

I'm well familiar with the "the Patriots always do this" argument, but expecting guys that green to process all the info and variables they were faced with may simply not have been the most brilliant strategy to keeping Brady upright and occasionally opening a hole.

However, if somebody wants to tell me the line would have actually been worse without the chinese fire-drill approach, then please feel free.

I heard that a part owner is Collinsworth.

Offensive linemen blast PFF grades, NFL coaching

......But the main reason listed was a lack of fundamental teaching by coaches.

"What is good technique? Even if you have coaches who want to implement the techniques, it's not the right way," Warmack said. "You do the same thing 1,000 times and it's wrong. Then you get in the game and they want me to block an All-Pro three-technique and you've been doing the same thing that's wrong since April. And it's October, and you get torn out the frame (on film). It's your fault. Not his fault. It's our fault."

To get the coaching they can't get from their respective coaching staffs, the linemen traveled to Arizona to learn from Bentley — a two-time Pro Bowler during his seven-year NFL career with the New Orleans Saints and Cleveland Browns.

"Show me your All-Pro jersey, coach, and I will do what you do. LeCharles Bentley has one of those," Long told Prisco. "At some point, you have to say I am doing what you tell me to do. But at the same time, you spend eight weeks here with LeCharles and eight weeks with elite guys like Weston, Chance and Bobby. You take things from each other. Why be here if you're not going to take what you learn here? Everybody has a tool belt. We load that sucker up here. That's what we take pride in doing."

link

 

[Hawg73]

I heard that a part owner is Collinsworth.

Offensive linemen blast PFF grades, NFL coaching



link

That was interesting, thank you.

I'm not claiming that I am an expert in OL play. I'm not, but I do pay attention and I focused a lot on Jackson and Mason last year. Neither was a first round pick, but each got a ton of snaps in preseason and then earned starting jobs for the Super Bowl Champions. That is saying something right there.

You don't want to go into the season with two rookie starters but I saw enough in both guys to feel good about their future in the league. I was the first guy I knew of to say that Shaq Mason was a great athlete and two months later Bill Belichick stated he was one of the most athletic guards he'd seen. He knew a long time before I did, but he doesn't give compliments out unless a guy earns it. So, let's review: Mason is super athletic, a good drive blocker and he sometimes struggled in pass pro because he came from Ga. Tech where they don't throw the ball. He ran out of gas late and got banged up. Jesus, that is a damn good rookie year.

I feel like it has become vogue somehow to say Trey Jackson sucks and it irks me. He was more solid than Mason. The first half of the season he was excellent. Very few mistakes or penalties if I remember right. And people want to put him on the first bus out because PFF says he sucks and he had a knee scoped. That won't happen.

You don't blame two rookies, who performed over and above what could have been expected because they were part of a line that ended up in disarray. They both got hurt around the time they hit the rookie wall. That doesn't mean they are scrubs who can't play.

When all is said and done they'll very likely be our starting guards again and should be, barring injury.

Plus, it was nice to hear PFF getting ripped. They aren't qualified authorities. They post their opinions on the internet, just like all of us.

 

[Defsoul]

I heard that a part owner is Collinsworth.

Offensive linemen blast PFF grades, NFL coaching



link

I'm pretty sure Scar would love Massie and Warmack.

PS: I share their distaste for PFF though...