Preseason Game 3, 2016, Pats vs Panthers

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Hawg73 said:
The pass rush has been better, but what was particularly encouraging was that we were getting pressure while at the same time working to contain Newton in the pocket -- which is a lot different than just pinning your ears back and going after a less mobile guy.

We have more capable edge guys than we have had in a while, even without Sheard and Nink, but I thought the inside pressure was pretty decent as well with young Vince Valentine showing the ability to push the pocket and Markus Kuhn occasionally getting in there.

The real question to me is whether we will loosen the reins and start pressuring opponents a little more in 2016, which we have not done much of over the last 15 seasons.

Early indications are that we might, but I won't assume that we will suddenly start becoming a pressure D after fifteen years of mostly bend-don't-break.
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The personnel certainly seems to indicate that.

If the suggestions are true wrt Knighton (rather than just saving him - which I don't feel is the case) then gone are the ginormous 2 gapping hold the point fatties we've been graced with since Washingtons days. Big dudes still, but not the guys closer to 400 than 300 like we've had.

Our offense should be able to score some serious point totals. I'd welcome a philosophical shift on D to pressure and be much more aggressive than reactive.

Sure is more fun to watch.
 
Hawg73 said:
The pass rush has been better, but what was particularly encouraging was that we were getting pressure while at the same time working to contain Newton in the pocket -- which is a lot different than just pinning your ears back and going after a less mobile guy.

We have more capable edge guys than we have had in a while, even without Sheard and Nink, but I thought the inside pressure was pretty decent as well with young Vince Valentine showing the ability to push the pocket and Markus Kuhn occasionally getting in there.

The real question to me is whether we will loosen the reins and start pressuring opponents a little more in 2016, which we have not done much of over the last 15 seasons.

Early indications are that we might, but I won't assume that we will suddenly start becoming a pressure D after fifteen years of mostly bend-don't-break.
Click to expand...
I think Bill trusts this secondary. Maybe his best secondary top to bottom if you include LB coverage that he has ever had.
 
Hawg73 said:
The pass rush has been better, but what was particularly encouraging was that we were getting pressure while at the same time working to contain Newton in the pocket -- which is a lot different than just pinning your ears back and going after a less mobile guy.

We have more capable edge guys than we have had in a while, even without Sheard and Nink, but I thought the inside pressure was pretty decent as well with young Vince Valentine showing the ability to push the pocket and Markus Kuhn occasionally getting in there.

The real question to me is whether we will loosen the reins and start pressuring opponents a little more in 2016, which we have not done much of over the last 15 seasons.

Early indications are that we might, but I won't assume that we will suddenly start becoming a pressure D after fifteen years of mostly bend-don't-break.
Click to expand...

I agree on BB loading up on edge rushers and VValentine. He looks like a player.
Unleashing a more aggressive pass rush is something I expected early last year.

Dwight Schrute said:
The personnel certainly seems to indicate that.

If the suggestions are true wrt Knighton (rather than just saving him - which I don't feel is the case) then gone are the ginormous 2 gapping hold the point fatties we've been graced with since Washingtons days. Big dudes still, but not the guys closer to 400 than 300 like we've had.

Our offense should be able to score some serious point totals. I'd welcome a philosophical shift on D to pressure and be much more aggressive than reactive.

Sure is more fun to watch.
Click to expand...

Me, too, DS.
I think Knighton's days are numbered. His tweet after the game "it is what it is" says to me he does too.

Mazz22 said:
I think Bill trusts this secondary. Maybe his best secondary top to bottom if you include LB coverage that he has ever had.
Click to expand...

All talented & working as a single unit toward a common goal should mean this is the year that ends the 'bend don't break' philosophy. I think this is that year. Finally.
 
Count me in as a guy who will be happy to see an end of playing off on 3rd and 14 and allowing 1sts.

If they're gonna get it make them really execute quickly for it.
 
chevss454 said:
I agree on BB loading up on edge rushers and VValentine. He looks like a player.
Unleashing a more aggressive pass rush is something I expected early last year.
Click to expand...

The final DL roster is a puzzle to me, but if Knighton is really not in our plans then you can bank on a large guy to take his place and we don't really have that many to choose from. Valentine is starting to really look like a viable option despite not being on many folks' radar prior to the draft.

I don't know much about him, but he certainly appears to have worked hard and gotten himself in better shape than he was in college and seems to being giving good effort on every snap after earning a rep of getting tired and taking plays off. I thought his balance was poor at Nebraska and he got knocked down a lot. He does not look like the same guy now.

Looking at it from Bill's perspective, you have a vet with skins on the wall who apparently didn't work out much in the offseason and a second-day pick who did and appears to really want it.

Valentine has no pass rush moves whatsoever beyond bull rushing, but he might be the strongest guy we have on D right now and if he learns to use those strong hands better then he could really be something in a year or two.

All talented & working as a single unit toward a common goal should mean this is the year that ends the 'bend don't break' philosophy. I think this is that year. Finally.
Click to expand...

God, I hope so. I've almost given up on seeing a D here that dictates and dominates, but perhaps we have the playmakers now to make that happen. Maybe BB/MP are also sick and tired of coaching our D to bore the other teams to death while outscoring them on the offensive side.
 
Hawg73 said:
The final DL roster is a puzzle to me, but if Knighton is really not in our plans then you can bank on a large guy to take his place and we don't really have that many to choose from. Valentine is starting to really look like a viable option despite not being on many folks' radar prior to the draft.


Valentine has no pass rush moves whatsoever beyond bull rushing, but he might be the strongest guy we have on D right now and if he learns to use those strong hands better then he could really be something in a year or two.



God, I hope so. I've almost given up on seeing a D here that dictates and dominates, but perhaps we have the playmakers now to make that happen. Maybe BB/MP are also sick and tired of coaching our D to bore the other teams to death while outscoring them on the offensive side.
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I am not much of an evaluator but when I watched Nebraska seemed like VV made almost as many plays as Collins. There was some discussion on here that the powerful DT will be more effective with the new blocking rules. VV is powerful if I remember what chevs said a while back.

Hawg, have any insights on the OL from this past game? I have only seen highlights. Tough to see who log some snaps.
 
sg14 said:
Hawg, have any insights on the OL from this past game? I have only seen highlights. Tough to see who log some snaps.
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FWIW, I did have a couple.

First, I'm worried about Solder. His pass blocking was never fantastic and he seems off to me. He's giving up too much ground and guys are getting inside and outside on him. I don't know what the stats show, but hopefully he is just rusty and will straighten himself out.

I thought Thuney had his "worst" game so far. He was out in space with James White and a good block might have sprung him, but Thomas Davis Jr. just out-foxed him with his hands and made Thuney look like a rookie and stuffed White. In addition, Kawaan Short just about knocked his spikes off a couple of times, but even when giving ground Joe kept fighting to keep his body in the way. Overall I thought he did well in what was by far his toughest physical challenge yet, but it was ragged at times. He gave a up a pressure on a bull rush for, I think, the first time. He's human, after all. What I liked was that even when getting out-muscled he was finding a way to get his job done with few exceptions and Short makes a lot of people look bad.

I liked what I saw from Andrews and the reports I've been reading about how Cannon is playing better would seem to be for real. He impressed me. Maybe Dante is a miracle worker. God, we need him to play a lot of snaps and pass block at a reasonably decent level. It's probably too good to be true.

I never looked at Kline, because I just can't make myself do it any more. Every time I do he gets thrown around. Ask somebody else. ;)

I continue to think LaAdrian Waddle can be a valuable swing tackle for us and Cam Fleming doesn't seem to be getting any better. To me it looks like he's gotten worse, if anything and for a guy with a Stanford degree in astronautics or whatever it is he seems to make a lot of mental mistakes. I'd give him a box lunch and a goodbye kiss. We've invested enough time in him that he should be farther along, imo.

Ted Karras is a big guy who is scrappy enough, but he's not real mobile. I'm not sure where he is at the moment. He might get a long look vs. the NYG, but he isn't bad.

I couldn't even begin to guess what the 53/PS will look like at this point. Too many incompletes.
 
Hawg73 said:
FWIW, I did have a couple.

First, I'm worried about Solder. His pass blocking was never fantastic and he seems off to me. He's giving up too much ground and guys are getting inside and outside on him. I don't know what the stats show, but hopefully he is just rusty and will straighten himself out.

I liked what I saw from Andrews and the reports I've been reading about how Cannon is playing better would seem to be for real. He impressed me. Maybe Dante is a miracle worker. God, we need him to play a lot of snaps and pass block at a reasonably decent level. It's probably too good to be true.

I continue to think LaAdrian Waddle can be a valuable swing tackle for us and Cam Fleming doesn't seem to be getting any better. To me it looks like he's gotten worse, if anything and for a guy with a Stanford degree in astronautics or whatever it is he seems to make a lot of mental mistakes. I'd give him a box lunch and a goodbye kiss. We've invested enough time in him that he should be farther along, imo.

Ted Karras is a big guy who is scrappy enough, but he's not real mobile. I'm not sure where he is at the moment. He might get a long look vs. the NYG, but he isn't bad.

I couldn't even begin to guess what the 53/PS will look like at this point. Too many incompletes.
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Thanks.
Hopefully solder gets his groove back. Sounds like the tackle positions are set. And the coaching staff wants a Thuney- Andrews-Mason G-C- G. Just a couple slots left. Be surprised if Cooper made the 53, he seems destined for IR.
 
sg14 said:
Thanks.
Hopefully solder gets his groove back. Sounds like the tackle positions are set. And the coaching staff wants a Thuney- Andrews-Mason G-C- G. Just a couple slots left. Be surprised if Cooper made the 53, he seems destined for IR.
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Cooper is a big X factor and I don't think anybody has much evidence what the staff really thinks about him. All we know is that he was lining up as a starter in the spring and then he gets hurt immediately in camp and we don't know exactly what that injury was.

If he gets cut it wouldn't surprise me and I would only be mildly surprised if he made the 53 and is our starting RG against Arizona. And IR is probably on the table. I think his getting cut outright might be the most likely scenario, but that is a guess. I have no idea what our cap savings might be if we cut him but that is probably a factor.

It's wait and see, but I hope somebody besides Kline is our starter over there and I'll take my chances with whoever that is.

Based on reports that Cooper practiced this week then I'd love to see him get a ton of reps vs. NY to see how he looks. I loved watching him play in college and think he is a tremendous athlete, but that means nothing other than he might reward extra patience.
 
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