Preseason Game 3, 2016, Pats vs Panthers

[Patriots71]

My thoughts on the game.

I was pleasantly surprised by the o-line. They gave Jimmy G a chance to be successful, and there were some holes for the backs to run through.

For the RBs, Gaffney looked like he wants to make the team. Foster gave them something to think about as well. Overall, I was happy with what I saw.

On defense, I thought the front 7 played good. The only surprise was that I didn't see Pot Roast make it onto the field, (not a good sign for him).

It's hard to judge the secondary, as Newton just stunk. They did catch the balls that went to them (as a result of Newton's poor play), so I don't have much to complain about.

One thing I wondered about when watching the game, was who played worse, Garoppolo or Newton, because I thought they both stunk last night. Newton missed a lot of throws that he usually makes. Garoppolo seems to choke in the red zone.

On a bright note, Garoppolo's backup, #12, looked like he could have a future in this league some day. Frankly, if Garoppolo doesn't perform better, I could see BB making a change as early as week 5.

Alright alright let's not get carried away on that number 12 guy Tim Brady, its preseason, he looked to skinny and slow for the NFL, would not get too excited

 

[AZPats]

Apparently it is sacrilegious to criticize Jimmy at all and think the Pats may struggle because of his play.

No. Its just people responding and critiquing half-assed comments.

 

[BostonTim]

No. Its just people responding and critiquing half-assed comments.

Ah. Yes. But WHICH half? Hmmn? Nutkick

Cheers,

 

[spacecrime]

Apparently it is sacrilegious to criticize Jimmy at all

Freedom to speak cuts both ways. If you can speak your mind about JG falling apart, others can say why he isn't.

Besides, what you said wasn't sacrilegious, but you suggested replacing Garop with Brissett based on JG's performance against one of the best defenses in the NFL. I could look at Brady's horrible throws to Bennett and his last series and suggest the HE be replaced with Brissett for the Browns game. Just as silly, and I would expect to be called silly, just as people who run around wailing 'the sky is falling' should be expect to have people roll their eyes.

We're just horribly over-reacting and making judgments based on one game, a game in which we KNOW the Pats weren't game-planning offensively and a game without all the offensive weapons playing.

 

[Patriots71]

Freedom to speak cuts both ways. If you can speak your mind about JG falling apart, others can say why he isn't.

Besides, what you said wasn't sacrilegious, but you suggested replacing Garop with Brissett based on JG's performance against one of the best defenses in the NFL. I could look at Brady's horrible throws to Bennett and his last series and suggest the HE be replaced with Brissett for the Browns game. Just as silly, and I would expect to be called silly, just as people who run around wailing 'the sky is falling' should be expect to have people roll their eyes.

We're just horribly over-reacting and making judgments based on one game, a game in which we KNOW the Pats weren't game-planning offensively and a game without all the offensive weapons playing.

I guess the fact that Brady has you know done what he has done its a bit more silly to talk about replacing him with Brissett. I thought for not having thrown a pass in a preseason game this year, brady added a pretty big spark when he came in. Not sure that is a good comparison. It is really ok to say JG played like crap. He did.

 

[spacecrime]

I guess the fact that Brady has you know done what he has done its a bit more silly to talk about replacing him with Brissett. I thought for not having thrown a pass in a preseason game this year, brady added a pretty big spark when he came in. Not sure that is a good comparison. It is really ok to say JG played like crap. He did.

It is fine to say a player played like crap for a game. IMO, it is silly to extrapolate that game into a prediction of future performance.

One of Brady's first games as a starter was (I believe) a four-pic game against the Chargers. Every player has a bad game. You look at the body of work.

But I don't think JG played like crap. Plus I think he played better in week 3 than week one, so by definition he has improved during the preseason.

 

[Patriots71]

It is fine to say a player played like crap for a game. IMO, it is silly to extrapolate that game into a prediction of future performance.

One of Brady's first games as a starter was (I believe) a four-pic game against the Chargers. Every player has a bad game. You look at the body of work.

But I don't think JG played like crap. Plus I think he played better in week 3 than week one, so by definition he has improved during the preseason.

I think the 4 int game was against Denver he destroyed the chargers that year. JG does not have a body of work yet. Well played like crap is relative. If Brady had that game, he would be stripped naked and thrown in boiling oil. I do not expect much out of JG as far as coming in and being Brady like some have done believe it or not, so as far as I'm concerned he just needs to not lose games and hopefully that will be enough to get a couple wins. Anything else is gravy.

 

[R+L=Negan]

Here are the biggest takeaways and highest-graded players from the New England Patriots’ 19-17 preseason win in Carolina.

New England Patriots

Quarterback grade: Tom Brady, 45.8; Jimmy Garoppolo, 44.3; Jacoby Brissett, 72.3

Jimmy Garoppolo, Tom Brady both grade poorly

New England came out with its third win of the preseason, but the team won’t be particularly pleased with the performance of either signal-caller. Garoppolo got the start and there wasn’t much to get excited about. He was fairly risk-averse, ending with more passes thrown behind the line of scrimmage (four) than balls that traveled more than 10 yards downfield (three).

Brady got his first action of the preseason late in the first quarter, and over 15 snaps there was some good and some bad. The good was his touchdown pass at 10:10 of the second quarter, a dime that hit WR Chris Hogan in stride against fairly tight coverage. But otherwise Brady showed signs of rust, with several misfires and a bad coverage misread at 3:50 of the second quarter that should have been picked off by Panthers safety Kurt Coleman.

Top offensive grades:

FB James Develin, 83.8

C David Andrews, 81.1

T Marcus Cannon, 80.4

T Nate Solder, 74.6

QB Jacoby Brissett, 72.3

Develin lead the unit with an 83.3 overall grade at fullback; he only played eight run snaps (12 total), but made a pair of key blocks in that time, including at 13:15 of the first quarter, when he opened the edge for a 14-yard gain by RB Tyler Gaffney. Both of New England’s starting tackles had solid games, particularly right tackle Marcus Cannon, who finished with a clean sheet in pass protection, a feat he managed just three times in 14 games last season.

Top defensive grades:

LB Jamie Collins, 80.9

DI Vincent Valentine, 80.8

CB Logan Ryan, 80.7

DE Chris Long, 80.6

LB Dont’a Hightower, 80.4

Several front-seven players stand out for New England

New England’s front seven had a solid showing, particularly from linebackers Jamie Collins and Dont’a Hightower, who combined for three stops in 16 run snaps. Up front, Vincent Valentine picked up two stops of his own, and was otherwise a general nuisance for Carolina’s front five, squeezing the point of attack and clogging running lanes on multiple plays.

On the outside, DE Chris Long converted three of his 20 rushes into pressure, and was close a few other times. He also had a strong game in run defense, notably giving TE Ed Dickson trouble, including at 12:26 of the second quarter, when he forced a holding penalty. On the opposite side, Trey Flowers notched a pair of defensive stops to go with three pressures (one sack, two hurries), one of which helped force an errant throw and interception.

Get the Patriots’ in-depth 2016 season preview right here.

Carolina Panthers

Quarterback grade: Cam Newton, 77.3

Cam Newton bounces back from early misfires, but gets little help from his WRs

This was a rough game for Newton, who was off-target early and ended with two interceptions, although neither throw was egregious. But across 46 snaps, there was more positive about his play than negative, which unfortunately isn’t reflected in box score due to the play of his receivers. Carolina’s pass-catchers dropped five of Newton’s passes (eight for the game), including multiple drops from Ted Ginn Jr. All five of those plays would have resulted in either a first down or touchdown. New England’s secondary also deserves credit, as Newton was frequently forced to check down or stay in the pocket well past four seconds. For the game he averaged 3.44 seconds in the pocket, substantially longer than any QB averaged in 2015 (Tyrod Taylor led the league at 3.23 seconds).

NewtonPre3

Top offensive grades:

G Trai Turner, 79.2

FB Mike Tolbert, 79.0

QB Joe Webb, 78.7

TE Marcus Lucas, 77.5

QB Cam Newton, 77.3

Devin Funchess stands out among a struggling receiving corps

While several Panthers receivers struggled, notably Ginn and TE Ed Dickson, second-year player Devin Funchess (76.7) was not one of them. He saw a team-high nine targets, hauling in five of them against four different defenders in primary coverage. On the ground, RB Cameron Artis-Payne made several impressive plays, creating yards in spite of poor blocking. He forced three missed tackles on 10 offensive touches, although three mishaps in pass protection substantially lowered his overall grade.

Top defensive grades

LB Shaq Thompson, 83.5

LB Luke Kuechly, 82.2

LB Thomas Davis, 80.2

DT Kawann Short, 79.0

DT Star Lotulelei, 78.1

Panthers’ starting linebacker trio grades very well

Predictably, Carolina’s top performers on defense came in the middle. The trio of linebackers – Luke Kuechly, Thomas Davis, and Shaq Thompson – combined for nine defensive stops, four of them coming from Kuechly, and in coverage allowed a lone seven-yard pass in four targets between them.

 

[chevss454]

Here are the biggest takeaways and highest-graded players from the New England Patriots’ 19-17 preseason win in Carolina.

New England Patriots

Quarterback grade: Tom Brady, 45.8; Jimmy Garoppolo, 44.3; Jacoby Brissett, 72.3

Jimmy Garoppolo, Tom Brady both grade poorly

New England came out with its third win of the preseason, but the team won’t be particularly pleased with the performance of either signal-caller. Garoppolo got the start and there wasn’t much to get excited about. He was fairly risk-averse, ending with more passes thrown behind the line of scrimmage (four) than balls that traveled more than 10 yards downfield (three).

Brady got his first action of the preseason late in the first quarter, and over 15 snaps there was some good and some bad. The good was his touchdown pass at 10:10 of the second quarter, a dime that hit WR Chris Hogan in stride against fairly tight coverage. But otherwise Brady showed signs of rust, with several misfires and a bad coverage misread at 3:50 of the second quarter that should have been picked off by Panthers safety Kurt Coleman.

Top offensive grades:

FB James Develin, 83.8

C David Andrews, 81.1

T Marcus Cannon, 80.4

T Nate Solder, 74.6

QB Jacoby Brissett, 72.3

Develin lead the unit with an 83.3 overall grade at fullback; he only played eight run snaps (12 total), but made a pair of key blocks in that time, including at 13:15 of the first quarter, when he opened the edge for a 14-yard gain by RB Tyler Gaffney. Both of New England’s starting tackles had solid games, particularly right tackle Marcus Cannon, who finished with a clean sheet in pass protection, a feat he managed just three times in 14 games last season.

Top defensive grades:

LB Jamie Collins, 80.9

DI Vincent Valentine, 80.8

CB Logan Ryan, 80.7

DE Chris Long, 80.6

LB Dont’a Hightower, 80.4

Several front-seven players stand out for New England

New England’s front seven had a solid showing, particularly from linebackers Jamie Collins and Dont’a Hightower, who combined for three stops in 16 run snaps. Up front, Vincent Valentine picked up two stops of his own, and was otherwise a general nuisance for Carolina’s front five, squeezing the point of attack and clogging running lanes on multiple plays.

On the outside, DE Chris Long converted three of his 20 rushes into pressure, and was close a few other times. He also had a strong game in run defense, notably giving TE Ed Dickson trouble, including at 12:26 of the second quarter, when he forced a holding penalty. On the opposite side, Trey Flowers notched a pair of defensive stops to go with three pressures (one sack, two hurries), one of which helped force an errant throw and interception.

Get the Patriots’ in-depth 2016 season preview right here.

Carolina Panthers

Quarterback grade: Cam Newton, 77.3

Cam Newton bounces back from early misfires, but gets little help from his WRs

This was a rough game for Newton, who was off-target early and ended with two interceptions, although neither throw was egregious. But across 46 snaps, there was more positive about his play than negative, which unfortunately isn’t reflected in box score due to the play of his receivers. Carolina’s pass-catchers dropped five of Newton’s passes (eight for the game), including multiple drops from Ted Ginn Jr. All five of those plays would have resulted in either a first down or touchdown. New England’s secondary also deserves credit, as Newton was frequently forced to check down or stay in the pocket well past four seconds. For the game he averaged 3.44 seconds in the pocket, substantially longer than any QB averaged in 2015 (Tyrod Taylor led the league at 3.23 seconds).

NewtonPre3

Top offensive grades:

G Trai Turner, 79.2

FB Mike Tolbert, 79.0

QB Joe Webb, 78.7

TE Marcus Lucas, 77.5

QB Cam Newton, 77.3

Devin Funchess stands out among a struggling receiving corps

While several Panthers receivers struggled, notably Ginn and TE Ed Dickson, second-year player Devin Funchess (76.7) was not one of them. He saw a team-high nine targets, hauling in five of them against four different defenders in primary coverage. On the ground, RB Cameron Artis-Payne made several impressive plays, creating yards in spite of poor blocking. He forced three missed tackles on 10 offensive touches, although three mishaps in pass protection substantially lowered his overall grade.

Top defensive grades

LB Shaq Thompson, 83.5

LB Luke Kuechly, 82.2

LB Thomas Davis, 80.2

DT Kawann Short, 79.0

DT Star Lotulelei, 78.1

Panthers’ starting linebacker trio grades very well

Predictably, Carolina’s top performers on defense came in the middle. The trio of linebackers – Luke Kuechly, Thomas Davis, and Shaq Thompson – combined for nine defensive stops, four of them coming from Kuechly, and in coverage allowed a lone seven-yard pass in four targets between them.

http://www.patriotsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2366161&postcount=179

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro...-patriots-win/

 

[Mazz22]

Freedom to speak cuts both ways. If you can speak your mind about JG falling apart, others can say why he isn't.

Besides, what you said wasn't sacrilegious, but you suggested replacing Garop with Brissett based on JG's performance against one of the best defenses in the NFL. I could look at Brady's horrible throws to Bennett and his last series and suggest the HE be replaced with Brissett for the Browns game. Just as silly, and I would expect to be called silly, just as people who run around wailing 'the sky is falling' should be expect to have people roll their eyes.

We're just horribly over-reacting and making judgments based on one game, a game in which we KNOW the Pats weren't game-planning offensively and a game without all the offensive weapons playing.

I wasn't being serious about Brissett starting just more or less blowing off steam at JGs performance.

We are between a rock and a hard place with these first 4 games IMO. It really does not matter how the back up QB plays as Brady is coming back in week 5 so we just need Ws. We are not trying to groom JG, we need him to be competent enough to go out and get as many wins as possible. In other words, we don't have time for him to have a bad game or two or three. Some of the things he did vs Carolina were rookie mistakes not things I would want to see from a third year guy. IMO Brissett has looked better under pressure this entire preseason. That is very concerning to me as again JG is in his third season.

You are right about the game planning. But Carolina was not game planning either and JG still did not look good. Arians is going to bring the house in AZ and I am fearful we will see Jimmy in deer headlights. As I said in previous posts, our defense may be good enough that they can carry Jimmy if he plays poorly but that may be asking a lot against a very potent AZ offense.

Of course having Gronk on the field should help Jimmy the most. The sky is not falling, yet. But these next two weeks will be very telling.

 

[chevss454]

Excellent stuff from Deep Threat puts the game in perspective.

Deep Threat ‏<s>@</s>DeeepThreat <small class="time"> 1m1 minute ago </small> The Patriots forced the Panthers into seven 3-and-outs allowing a total of 15 yards of offense on those seven series of downs
Panthers Possessions vs Patriots Punt Punt Interception Downs Interception Punt Interception Punt Punt FG Punt Punt Punt TD TD
Patriots Possessions vs Panthers Missed FG Punt Punt FG TD Missed FG Punt Punt End of Half Downs Punt TD Punt FG Punt End of Game
3rd Down Efficiency Patriots: 1-13 for 8% (ugh)

Panthers: 5-17 for 29%




Punt Returns
Patriots: 4 for 101, 25.3 avg

Panthers: 3 for 9 yards, 3.0 avg
Chris Hogan vs Panthers 5-6 for 83.3%, 62 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT, 10.3 YPA, 170.1 target rating (as X WR)
Tom Brady vs Panthers 3-9 for 33.3%, 76 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT, 8.4 YPA, 102.1 passer rating
Jimmy Garoppolo vs Panthers 9-15 for 60%, 57 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT, 3.8 YPA, 67.9 passer rating
Jacoby Brissett vs Panthers 9-9 for 100%, 85 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT, 9,4 YPA, 161.8 passer rating
Cam Newton vs Patriots 13-29 for 44.8%, 100 yards, 0 TD, 2 INT, 3.4 YPA, 25.1 passer rating
Patriots Rushing First Half 11 carries, 55 yards, 5.0 avg, long of 17

Patriots Defense Rutgers: 4 tackles, 3 interceptions, 3 passes defended
Trey Flowers 6 tackles (1 for loss), 1 sack, 1 QB hit Malcolm Butler 3 tackles, 1 pass defended

 

[spacecrime]

I think the 4 int game was against Denver he destroyed the chargers that year.

You're right. Denver. Anyway, they all have bad games.

 

[Patriots71]

You're right. Denver. Anyway, they all have bad games.

Of course they do, and when they do, I think its ok to say they had one for JG just as much as Brady. JG is more of the unknown, so there might be slightly more worry there because some of us look at him as maybe our future QB and we want the band to keep playing. Nothing harder than going though a 20 year stretch of great Qbing and then go through 20 years of bad qbing. ask the cowboys.

 

[TommyD420]

Why are the cards that much better than the patriots? I think we have a real shot this year, but I guess the cards season. I think the pats could beat the cardinals, not sure they are this all world power people make them out to be. I'm joking, but I am not sure the pats are so under the cards that we would be such a underdog with Brady and everyone healthy. In fact I think JG might give them a run too.

It's a cross-country Week 1 Sunday Night road game.

Against a damned fine football team in the Arizona Cardinals. Top 5 offense and defense, and the best secondary in the league. They're no joke.

I didn't say the Patriots couldn't beat them, I said they'd (rightfully) be underdogs, even with Brady at QB.

 

[TommyD420]

Thank you, Tommy.

Bumping for emphasis.

edit: And that offensive ranking was WITHOUT their #1 WR for the entire year. Kelvin Benjamin played and played well last night.

That kid's going to be an absolute beast if he stays healthy.

I was not referencing you. I agree with your sentiment. The AZ is 100 percent winnable if we get above average QB play. Jimmy regressed last night. That is concerning.

Yes, your concern trolling is duly noted. Thank you for your concern.

 

[Mazz22]

Yes, your concern trolling is duly noted. Thank you for your concern.

Duly noted. I will remember to put back on my Pats rose colored glasses when I come to a JG discussion in the future.

---------- Post added at 01:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:17 PM ----------

Of course they do, and when they do, I think its ok to say they had one for JG just as much as Brady. JG is more of the unknown, so there might be slightly more worry there because some of us look at him as maybe our future QB and we want the band to keep playing. Nothing harder than going though a 20 year stretch of great Qbing and then go through 20 years of bad qbing. ask the cowboys.

That is why we drafted Brissett. Bill is not going to leave the future after Brady in poor hands whether Jimmy pans out or not. He will make sure he has THE guy to keep the party going.

 

[spacecrime]

Of course they do, and when they do, I think its ok to say they had one for JG just as much as Brady.

But evidently not equally okay to disagree about how bad the game was or wasn't, or whether replacing JG with Brissett because of a preseason stat line makes any sense at all.

 

[chevss454]

Cam Newton was 2/11 for 13 yards and an INT when the Patriots defense generated pressure per PFF.

===================

For the third time in as many weeks, the Patriots have showcased a pass rush that should be among the most feared in the league, and they’ve done it twice without injured defensive ends Jabaal Sheard (sprained MCL) and Rob Ninkovich (torn triceps).The Pats have six interceptions, two fumble recoveries and two defensive touchdowns this preseason, so they’re cooking. It’s a clear result of the rush and coverage operating in harmony.
Those takeaways and easy scores are of obvious significance, especially while Jimmy Garoppolo starts the first four games, and the Patriots had an uncharacteristically down season in 2015. Their 21 takeaways were tied for 22nd-most in the league, and it was their second-lowest total in 16 seasons under Bill Belichick. And as the offense limped down the stretch last season, the defense only managed to force multiple turnovers once in their final 10 games, including the playoffs, which played a part in those five losses.
There’s been a rapid turnaround this summer in that department.
“Turnovers, definitely early in the game, are infectious,” Ryan said. “That’s what we pride ourselves on, getting a bunch of them.”
The struggles for Panthers quarterback Cam Newton often were the result of a pocket that closed to the size of a phone booth. The Pats starting defense pitched a shutout, and the first-string front seven amassed one sack, one quarterback hit, seven pressures, two drawn holding penalties, two run stuffs and one batted pass in 26 drop-backs from Newton and Derek Anderson (one series) before halftime.
The quarterbacks completed a combined 11-of-25 passes for 98 yards and three picks in the first half. That included three completions for 31 yards on screens and dump-offs and Anderson’s 18-yard throw to Devin Funchess against a breakdown in zone coverage.
Starting cornerbacks Malcolm Butler, Ryan and Cyrus Jones stifled receivers Kelvin Benjamin, Ted Ginn and Funchess. Ryan attributed his interception to two factors. First, he recognized Newton’s pre-snap check through film study and had a pretty good idea there would be a deep sideline pass going in his direction, which is w

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/..._pass_rush_yields_secondary_gains_vs_panthers

 

[Mazz22]

Cam Newton was 2/11 for 13 yards and an INT when the Patriots defense generated pressure per PFF.

===================


http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/..._pass_rush_yields_secondary_gains_vs_panthers

Our defense is a monster. With all the DEs we have, it seems Bill plan is to pressure. Our secondary is also solid especially if Jones is our third corner. I really want to give Newton a hard time about his play as he did seem lazy in his mechanics but honestly our defense was THAT good.

Also, not sure if you watched last night's Texans/Cards game but Palmer looked like poop. Texans were able to get after him. I feel like we can do the same and force him into the same mistakes as Newton. Also, I just looked up Palmer's age and he is 36. I do wonder if the wheels may start to come off soon for him. His throws looked weak to me but I dunno just preseason so hard to tell how much effort was there.

 

[Hawg73]

The pass rush has been better, but what was particularly encouraging was that we were getting pressure while at the same time working to contain Newton in the pocket -- which is a lot different than just pinning your ears back and going after a less mobile guy.

We have more capable edge guys than we have had in a while, even without Sheard and Nink, but I thought the inside pressure was pretty decent as well with young Vince Valentine showing the ability to push the pocket and Markus Kuhn occasionally getting in there.

The real question to me is whether we will loosen the reins and start pressuring opponents a little more in 2016, which we have not done much of over the last 15 seasons.

Early indications are that we might, but I won't assume that we will suddenly start becoming a pressure D after fifteen years of mostly bend-don't-break.