Projecting the Cuts

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MaineMan

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As of the start of pre-season game #3 vs. the Lions, the Pats have 84 players on the roster (including Gronk, Armstead and Harrison on Active/PUP or NFI). They need to get down to 75 by Tuesday, Aug. 27th, and so, need to release at least 9 players. They also need to retain enough JAGs and ST-guys for each unit so that the regular starters don't need to see the field much, if at all, in pre-season game #4.

Some possibilities, by unit:

DE (currently 7 players)
- not necessarily seeing an early cut, though 1-2 guys will go in Final cuts.

DT (6, not including Armstead)
*** Anthony Rashad White - unless he shows something substantial tonight

LB (8)
*** Niko - to the Shadow Roster again

CB (9)
*** Brandon Jones - not practicing due to some unknown injury
- with Dowling injured (again) and Dennard's probation hearing ALSO on the 27th, they may keep 8 for insurance.

SAF (7)
*** Gregory - if he's gone anyway, an early release is a customary veteran courtesy

RB (8, including FBs)
*** Bartholomew and/or Develin - I don't see a full-time FB on this roster and I feel that these two have been mostly competing with Hooman, anyway.
*** Washington - I'm NOT sayng that he SHOULD be released, just that, if they're going to do so - veteran courtesy, etc.

OL (13)
*** 1-2 of the UDFAs (yer choice) - probably need to keep 5-6 scrubs for game #4.

TE (5, not including Gronk)
*** Landi - haven't seen a reason to keep him
- I'm thinking they may delay a decision on Hooman/Fells until they know more about Gronk's prognosis. If Gronk DOES land on Reserve/PUP, they may keep four TEs for the duration.

WR (8, not including Harrison)
*** Aiken - I'm not yet certain he doesn't stick on the 53 as a 6th "real" WR, but, again, veteran courtesy if they're going to cut him anyway and he's projected to NOT dress for game #3
*** Haggerty - always was a camp body only
- the "lock" rookies probably need reps more than "protection", so I'd expect them to play extensively in game #4

QB (3, sorta)
- I think they keep Tebow until the last minute and let him run his offense in game #4

That's 10-12 cuts, by my count.

BTW - IIRC, they can move Harrison directly to IR without having him clear waivers during first cuts. GP??
 
Sounds right.

I don't see anything to debate on this.

DE hopefully clarifies a bit tonite. But I don't know if Cunningham is playing.
 
Dwight Schrute said:
Sounds right.

I don't see anything to debate on this.

DE hopefully clarifies a bit tonite. But I don't know if Cunningham is playing.
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Actually, after watching the game, I'm not sure Gregory won't be retained over Adrian Wilson.

Also, Washington showed quite a bit more tonight. I think he may be in the mix over Bolden.

Interesting that Vellano started over Forston. I also noticed that Josh Kline came in with the 1s during Q2, for Svitek, I think, and then was at center starting the 2nd half.

Zusevics didn't look anywhere near as good as Brice Schwab at RT.

#1 note - the Lions' DL is stacked with large, talented a$$holes. And their secondary isn't nearly as bad as it used to be.
 
MaineMan said:
BTW - IIRC, they can move Harrison directly to IR without having him clear waivers during first cuts. GP??
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I think so, yes. But I expect him to be placed on reserve/NFI. No need to rule him out for the entire year this early.
 
MaineMan said:
Actually, after watching the game, I'm not sure Gregory won't be retained over Adrian Wilson.

.
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What's the deal with Adrian Wilson? Everyone was pretty hyped when we signed him. Has age caught up to him?
 
German_Patriot said:
I think so, yes. But I expect him to be placed on reserve/NFI. No need to rule him out for the entire year this early.
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I was actually thinking the same thing on the way to work this morning. Both Harrison and Armstead rehab/whatever for six weeks, then get their 3 weeks of "Camp" after week-6. There may or may not be room for Harrison among the WRs at that point, but I'd guess that DT may still be a bit thin.
 
grog said:
What's the deal with Adrian Wilson? Everyone was pretty hyped when we signed him. Has age caught up to him?
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Age caught up to him several years ago. We didn't sign him to play deep and cover WRs, but possibly to fill a hybrid role on TEs etc., etc. It's been an established fact that he isn't really a cover guy, but can still punish anybody that he can track down and has always been a top blitzer, fwiw.

I haven't been able to get any kind of handle on him in the preseason and can only guess that BB isn't thrilled based on the way he is using him or NOT using him, but can't be certain that he is a goner or anything.

BB could be THRILLED with him for all we know. He could have had him in with the scrubs to work on something in particular to get him up to speed not that our top-notch announcing crew thought to mention that.
 
Hawg73 said:
Age caught up to him several years ago. We didn't sign him to play deep and cover WRs, but possibly to fill a hybrid role on TEs etc., etc. It's been an established fact that he isn't really a cover guy, but can still punish anybody that he can track down and has always been a top blitzer, fwiw.

I haven't been able to get any kind of handle on him in the preseason and can only guess that BB isn't thrilled based on the way he is using him or NOT using him, but can't be certain that he is a goner or anything.

BB could be THRILLED with him for all we know. He could have had him in with the scrubs to work on something in particular to get him up to speed not that our top-notch announcing crew thought to mention that.
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He was playing as a dime LB with the 1s and 2s, and playing safety with the scrubs. :shrug:

I'm guessing sort of a "prove it" period in a blowout preseason game, maybe?
 
POST Game-3 Debacle redo:

DE (7)
*** BEQUETTE - clearly no reason to keep wasting practice snaps on him now
- Buchanan showed up a bit on ST last night. He may only be marginally better than Bequette, but we haven't seen his ceiling yet.

DT (6, not including Armstead)
*** ARMSTEAD TO Reserve/NFI?
*** GRISSOM TO IR?
- I didn't stay up to see White, but Oswlek seemd to think he made a difference when he was on the field, which is good enough for me.

LB (8)
*** KOUTS - to the Shadow Roster again
- possibly both Rivera and Tarp are gone in Final cuts, but they stick through Game-4; Beauharnais maybe to the PS if he's not claimed.

CB (9)
*** BRANDON JONES - not practicing due to some unknown injury, so probably no point in keeping him around for Game-4
- with Dowling injured (again) and Dennard's probation hearing ALSO on the 27th, they may keep all of Cole, LeQuan Lewis and Justin Green for insurance, and/or bring in a soon-to-be-cut other guy to "try out" in Game-4.

SAF (7)
*** ADRIAN WILSON - slow to react, slow afoot, just not making a significantly greater impact than Tavon or Harmon and has been kinda outplayed by Gregory (not saying much there).
- Ebner and Davis probably stick through Game-4, competing for a special-teams spot against Rivera/Tarp/Beauharnais.

RB (8, including FBs)
*** BARTHOLOMEW - no reason to keep him around, and they could still probably re-sign him to the PS after Final Cuts
- Develin seemed to be getting a serious evaluation last night, and in direct competition with Hooman. I thought it was more or less a tie, so the battle may continue through Game-4.
- Washington showed a lot more value as an RB last night than I expected and Bolden did himself no favors. If they are in competition with each other, I expect the battle to continue through Game-4.

OL (13)
*** 1-2 of the UDFAs (yer choice) - probably need to keep 5-6 scrubs for game #4.
- The candidates are:
----- Brice Schwab, T #60 (6065/303) - hasn't been bad, really.
----- Zusevics, T #66 (6047/303) - looked pretty awful last night
----- Josh Kline, C/G #67 (6025/307) - popped up on the OL in the 2nd quarter last night, I think in relief of Switek, and then was at center for the 2nd half. A look with the 1s on offense might only mean he's a preferred PS candidate, but still.
----- Stankiewitch, C/G #69 (6026/302) - Didin't see him last night. In the previous two games, his pass-pro was just okay, but his run-blocking seemed pretty good.
----- Chris McDonald, G/C (6042/300)
----- Luke Patterson, C/G (6041/293)
- The best of these young guys might have been RJ Mattes (T, 6062/321) who was released after being injured in Game-2. I hadn't seen is name pop up on the IR list, but he might come back to the PS later in the season if he's recovered.

TE (5, not including Gronk)
*** Landi - haven't seen a reason to keep him
- Fells was among those who didn't dress for the game last night. I hadn't heard that he was kept out because he was dinged up (ala Amendola), so, if he was a healthy scratch, that could mean something. Seems to me that, in the past, veterans who were healthy scratches for Pre-season Game-3 were quite often gone in first cuts.
- Ballard played a lot of snaps, almost exclusively in a blocking role, and I didn't think that he was all that good.
- Possibly Hooman vs. Develin (see above)

WR (8, not including Harrison)
*** HARRISON TO Reserve/NFI?
*** KAMAR AIKEN - Like Fells, also didn't dress for Game-3, and I definitely hadn't heard about him being hurt, which may not bode well for him, though he may stick through Game-4. *** HAGGERTY - always was a camp body only
- the "lock" rookies probably need reps more than "protection", so I'd expect them all to play extensively in game #4, possibly except Thompkins

QB (3, sorta)
- I still think they keep Tebow until the last minute and let him run his offense in game #4, but I'm pretty sure that he's gone in Final Cuts. I think the Pats have given him a more-than-fair chance to drop his pursuit of the QB spot and become a "football player", but he deosn't appear to have given up and I just don't see him making the roster as a "QB-3". There's just not enough value in that position compared to depth need in other units, even for a guy who's decent at QB.
 
I hope they keep Aiken, he might not be much of a receiver but I always see him around the ball on Special teams. By the way, that duo they used last night on returns was horrid, which way are they leaning there.
 
MaineMan said:
- The best of these young guys might have been RJ Mattes (T, 6062/321) who was released after being injured in Game-2. I hadn't seen is name pop up on the IR list, but he might come back to the PS later in the season if he's recovered.
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Waived/injured on Monday, cleared waivers and moved to IR Tuesday.

Also, both Fells and Aiken were limited in Tuesday's practice after returning from injuries.
 
I still believe Tebow was brought in as a long term project and not a 5 week how do you do. I can't rationalize him winning a roster spot any other way.
 
German_Patriot said:
Waived/injured on Monday, cleared waivers and moved to IR Tuesday.

Also, both Fells and Aiken were limited in Tuesday's practice after returning from injuries.
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I hadn't seen that. Thanks for the assist!
 
chevss454 said:
I still believe Tebow was brought in as a long term project and not a 5 week how do you do. I can't rationalize him winning a roster spot any other way.
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Honestly, I don't see them having the room to keep him if he's not going to be contributing significantly in some other way, even if it's just being an exceptional special-teamer (aside from being Mesko's personal protector in practices). Ebner only made the squad last season because he was an exceptional special teams coverage guy from the get-go.

Anyway, the secondary especially appears to need bodies right now. And, although Buchanon could end up being a healthy scratch most games, it seems doubtful that he'd clear waivers, so, if the coaches believe in his long term potential at DE and think he may produce a rookie-season arc silimar to Justin Francis, he's another guy who could squeeze Tebow off the bottom of the 53.

If, say, a couple weeks ago, Tebow had shifted his position to RB or FB or even LB and focused on that and becoming a decent ST coverage guy or blocker, I could see him sticking and continuing his "development" as a QB on the side, but at this late date I'm just not seeing sufficient value to keep him, even over Ebner.
 
MaineMan said:
Honestly, I don't see them having the room to keep him if he's not going to be contributing significantly in some other way, even if it's just being an exceptional special-teamer (aside from being Mesko's personal protector in practices). Ebner only made the squad last season because he was an exceptional special teams coverage guy from the get-go.

Anyway, the secondary especially appears to need bodies right now. And, although Buchanon could end up being a healthy scratch most games, it seems doubtful that he'd clear waivers, so, if the coaches believe in his long term potential at DE and think he may produce a rookie-season arc silimar to Justin Francis, he's another guy who could squeeze Tebow off the bottom of the 53.
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I know. I feel the same way. Tebow hasn't helped his cause any. Then again, would Tebow running the Fla. O have done any worse than Mallet vs the Lions?
 
chevss454 said:
I know. I feel the same way. Tebow hasn't helped his cause any. Then again, would Tebow running the Fla. O have done any worse than Mallet vs the Lions?
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Well, that's the thing and an issue I think I got into quite awhile back in a thread discussing the future of the NFL QB vis-a-vis the "running, read-option" QBs making an impact the past couple seasons.

While I don't know that Mallett can't run a read-option attack, it's pretty clear that Tebow can't be effective in the Pats standard pocket-based schemes. The roles/reads/assignments for all offense players would seem to have some significant differences between to two systems, so, if your starter is Brady in a pocket-based scheme and your backup is Tebow in a read-option scheme, which scheme does everybody rep in practice? If you give equal time to both schemes in practice, is either going to be top-notch? If you devote nearly all practice reps to the starter's scheme and he gets hurt, how many weeks of fulltime practice in the other scheme does it take for it to become top-notch and how many games might be lost during the transition?

For the sake of argument, though, let's say that the Pats start Tebow, running a full-bore read-option in game-4 against the Giants and he carves up their 1s from the get-go - what then? Do they keep him to run the scout team against the Pats defensive #1s and start to work toward a read-option scheme to change to when Brady finally retires?
 
TommyD420 said:
So? It's the NFL. Not the Yankee Conference.
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The original question you responded to was:

"... would Tebow running the Fla. O have done any worse than Mallet vs the Lions?"

His 5-19 has been posted with him NOT "running the Fla O" (= full-bore, well-rehearsed read-option), but with a typical, pocket-based, NFL offense instead. Ergo, his 5-19 (or this being the NFL) has no bearing on the original question.
 
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