The 2017 NFL Draft

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patfan64 said:
What is the consensus on Cyrus Jones? Much like Dominque Easley's first season as a Patriot, not much to go on. The kid should never be deep on punts or KO. But is he in the mix at CB? Does Ryan become a little more expendable because of Jones?
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He recently did an interview with WEEI.com where he admitted that he had a terrible year and that he was embarassed etc., etc. The article stated that his issues fielding punts were in his head and affected his confidence in coverage, which seems to me to be a convenient excuse.

At no point last year did he look comfortable simply catching the ball on kicks. He didn't fumble every one, certainly, and made some decent returns showing athleticism, but there were far too many bobbles and drops to feel good about his chances of getting that job back. Lost in all of that is that there were times early in the season when he played pretty well as a nickel back before tailing off.

Still, there have been a ton of guys in Foxboro who didn't do much or play much as rookies who became useful players in years 2 and 3. James White and Trey Flowers are two recent notable examples, but I have a lot of faith in Nick Caserio's staff's ability to identify pro talent and I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he gets his act together and contributes next season.
 
Big/Sky/Fly said:
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/christian-mccaffrey?id=2557997

Is he the next Edelman, Welker, Woodhead, Amendola, Hogan guy? :coffee:

Of course, he would be drafted way higher, though...
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If we're talking white skill players that can play then you'd be hard-pressed to find a better guy to draft than Cooper Kupp.

I watched him at the Senior Bowl and he caught everything. Everything. He was driving those DBs crazy.

He's got the height, bloodlines, is a great kid off the field, advanced route runner, ultra productive at Eastern Washington (FCS school. The big question with him is 40 time.

If he runs a 4.5 or better then he's definitely going in the top 50.

I'm always fascinated at how NFL teams tend to be influenced, or over-influenced, by particular guys that had success the previous year and it's possible that somebody out there will see what the new wave of athletic Patriot white boys like Chris Hogan, Edelman etc., have accomplished and want to go out and draft their own version. I should point out that nobody should run out and draft him BECAUSE he is white, but that they shouldn't hesitate because he is. If you can play you can play.

You watch that guy on the field and think there is no way he isn't a successful pro.

I'm not saying McCaffrey can't play, but Kupp will have a better career and get drafted higher.

I doubt we draft him, but I could almost guarantee our guys like him.
 
Hawg73 said:
If we're talking white skill players that can play then you'd be hard-pressed to find a better guy to draft than Cooper Kupp.

I watched him at the Senior Bowl and he caught everything. Everything. He was driving those DBs crazy.

He's got the height, bloodlines, is a great kid off the field, advanced route runner, ultra productive at Eastern Washington (FCS school. The big question with him is 40 time.

If he runs a 4.5 or better then he's definitely going in the top 50.

I'm always fascinated at how NFL teams tend to be influenced, or over-influenced, by particular guys that had success the previous year and it's possible that somebody out there will see what the new wave of athletic Patriot white boys like Chris Hogan, Edelman etc., have accomplished and want to go out and draft their own version. I should point out that nobody should run out and draft him BECAUSE he is white, but that they shouldn't hesitate because he is. If you can play you can play.

You watch that guy on the field and think there is no way he isn't a successful pro.

I'm not saying McCaffrey can't play, but Kupp will have a better career and get drafted higher.

I doubt we draft him, but I could almost guarantee our guys like him.
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Almost forgot about him...he broke a lot of records.
 
Hawg73 said:
If we're talking white skill players that can play then you'd be hard-pressed to find a better guy to draft than Cooper Kupp.

I watched him at the Senior Bowl and he caught everything. Everything. He was driving those DBs crazy.

He's got the height, bloodlines, is a great kid off the field, advanced route runner, ultra productive at Eastern Washington (FCS school. The big question with him is 40 time.

If he runs a 4.5 or better then he's definitely going in the top 50.

I'm always fascinated at how NFL teams tend to be influenced, or over-influenced, by particular guys that had success the previous year and it's possible that somebody out there will see what the new wave of athletic Patriot white boys like Chris Hogan, Edelman etc., have accomplished and want to go out and draft their own version. I should point out that nobody should run out and draft him BECAUSE he is white, but that they shouldn't hesitate because he is. If you can play you can play.

You watch that guy on the field and think there is no way he isn't a successful pro.

I'm not saying McCaffrey can't play, but Kupp will have a better career and get drafted higher.

I doubt we draft him, but I could almost guarantee our guys like him.
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Good call...

http://goeags.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=3747
 
Hawg73 said:
Still, there have been a ton of guys in Foxboro who didn't do much or play much as rookies who became useful players in years 2 and 3. James White and Trey Flowers are two recent notable examples, but I have a lot of faith in Nick Caserio's staff's ability to identify pro talent and I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he gets his act together and contributes next season.
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That's how I look at it, also. Labeling players as sucky or busts by week 8 of their rookie season is premature evaluation IMO.
 
patfan64 said:
What is the consensus on Cyrus Jones? Much like Dominque Easley's first season as a Patriot, not much to go on. The kid should never be deep on punts or KO. But is he in the mix at CB? Does Ryan become a little more expendable because of Jones?
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He's currently being molded and chiseled into a fine work of art.
 
Hawg73 said:
I think Andrews is the weak link, if anyone.

I'm not going to overreact to Mason getting destroyed by Grady Jarrett the way he did, because while he has gotten beat numerous times, I've never seen anybody just run right over the top of him like he was a speed bump.

Even the best players just have horrible games due to style matchups. Like how Matt Light snuffed Dwight Freeney every time but couldn't block Aaron Schobel with a chair and a whip. Or Jason Taylor. Light was still an excellent LT.

Maybe Jarrett is just better than anybody realizes. Or is juicing his ass off, because he went from who? to beast pretty damn fast.

Mason had a pretty good year, but a terrible Super Bowl. I'll concede that.

If we're going to draft OL, then I'd like to see them bring in a tackle to upgrade the job currently held by Fleming.

Then again, after seeing Marcus Cannon crawl out of his grave and play a dozen times better than he ever did I'm not putting anything past Dante. Whatever he thinks works for me.
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I agree it is Andrews who is getting beat most of the time, now is that a protection design flaw or he is open to the bull rushing him into the QB 75% of the time? I don't think it is design flaw knowing Scar.

I think Between Mason and Jackson they have a RG but it seems their center position plays great one year and declines the past few years but the biggest need is the swing tackle to back up Solder/Cannon. I think Volmer is retiring.
chevss454 said:
I hope you're right about Mason. Jarrett had his way for sure.
I also hope Tre Jackson can come back and play well.
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I think Tre can play if healthy, a big IF

patfan64 said:
What is the consensus on Cyrus Jones? Much like Dominque Easley's first season as a Patriot, not much to go on. The kid should never be deep on punts or KO. But is he in the mix at CB? Does Ryan become a little more expendable because of Jones?
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Lost confidence in himself on day one, struggled to get it back

Hawg73 said:
He recently did an interview with WEEI.com where he admitted that he had a terrible year and that he was embarassed etc., etc. The article stated that his issues fielding punts were in his head and affected his confidence in coverage, which seems to me to be a convenient excuse.

At no point last year did he look comfortable simply catching the ball on kicks. He didn't fumble every one, certainly, and made some decent returns showing athleticism, but there were far too many bobbles and drops to feel good about his chances of getting that job back. Lost in all of that is that there were times early in the season when he played pretty well as a nickel back before tailing off.

Still, there have been a ton of guys in Foxboro who didn't do much or play much as rookies who became useful players in years 2 and 3. James White and Trey Flowers are two recent notable examples, but I have a lot of faith in Nick Caserio's staff's ability to identify pro talent and I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he gets his act together and contributes next season.
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He admits their is an issue, step one in recovery as a ball player. I have faith he will turn it around.

while he had a crap year I think he bounces back next year. he needs to clear his head, realize despite his suckatude level the Patriots still won it all.


One guy who worried me was Hogan who has a nasty habit of double catching a lot of passes, the playoff gem he had was full of double catches, that scares me. just a concern going forward I have.
 
Hawg73 said:
I think Andrews is the weak link, if anyone.

I'm not going to overreact to Mason getting destroyed by Grady Jarrett the way he did, because while he has gotten beat numerous times, I've never seen anybody just run right over the top of him like he was a speed bump.

Even the best players just have horrible games due to style matchups. Like how Matt Light snuffed Dwight Freeney every time but couldn't block Aaron Schobel with a chair and a whip. Or Jason Taylor. Light was still an excellent LT.

Maybe Jarrett is just better than anybody realizes. Or is juicing his ass off, because he went from who? to beast pretty damn fast.

Mason had a pretty good year, but a terrible Super Bowl. I'll concede that.

If we're going to draft OL, then I'd like to see them bring in a tackle to upgrade the job currently held by Fleming.

Then again, after seeing Marcus Cannon crawl out of his grave and play a dozen times better than he ever did I'm not putting anything past Dante. Whatever he thinks works for me.
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I just looked it up on PFF and Shaq Mason played better than my lying eyes told me. To my surprise, Thuney is actually the weak link but he should improve with a year of experience.

name........rank for position........rating points
Mason..............15....................84.0
Andrews...........22....................80.0
Thuney.............46....................71.8
 
I don't know what formula PFF uses to determine who is doing their job, or IF they have one, but Joe Thuney had one real problem this season and that is that he drew too many flags. And not all those flags were of the obvious and legit kind. Thuney may have led the league in ticky-tack calls.

I sort of adopted Thuney this year and tend to watch him closely and I thought he had a really excellent rookie year.

I think he may have hit the rookie wall to a lesser extent later on in the season, but this guy really has no weaknesses except maybe pure size and he will get attention in the offseason weight program. The things he does well are things that can't really get taught and he is quite natural and fluid. Guys can start for years in this league and never be able to mirror a DL in pass pro at the level Joe started with. And he'll get better. When he started to give up his share of sacks around mid-season they tended to be versus veteran moves and that is what he'll surely improve on.

As far as his ability to get to and excel on the 2nd level he is already outstanding.

He played every snap this season except for one, I believe, and likely exceeded every expectation.

I predict pro bowls in this kid's future. Nobody needs to worry about Joe Thuney based on what PFF says -- all you have to do is watch vets like LG looking for his ass when he's trying to find a hole because he usually creates one. I saw that at least a dozen times when the planned hole didn't work out. Ask LG what he thinks about 62.

He'll be our best interior guy by a wide margin before long.
 
any word on Karras? if he is someone who needed the season to grow into the position?


I like my Guards to play with a little bit of a nasty streak, Hannah had it, Mankins had it, Neal had it, Wendell/Connolly/Andruzzi/ Compton all had it. Thuney seems to but he gets called for everything - may be that he is a rookie and refs were looking for him because Hawg is correct in that he got a few calls that were head scratchers.
 
Defsoul said:
Can Peppers actually play free safety? I've only seen him play a few snaps and he always lined up inside the tackle box or in the slot. If he's a strong safety only, you're basically picking him to replace Patrick Chung. If he can play free safety, he's your recplacement for Duron Harmon. Harmon only played 48.6% of all defensive snaps last year though.
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I don't believe FS would be a good fit for Peppers. He has all the athleticism you'd want at FS, but he can be too aggressive against play-action and he doesn't read the play well until the ball is in the air.

For all his athleticism and potential, I still think he needed to stay at Michigan for another year to hone his coverage and play recognition skills.
 
Limited contact list from Walterfootball;

New England Patriots
<li style="width:60%;"> Jimmie Gilbert, OLB, Colorado (EW) <li style="width:60%;"> Leon McQuay III, S, USC (EW) <li style="width:60%;"> Carroll Phillips, DE/3-4OLB/OLB, Illinois (SR) <li style="width:60%;"> Josh Tupou, DT, Colorado (EW) <li style="width:60%;"> Chris Wormley, DE/DT/3-4DE, Michigan (SR) <li style="border-bottom:solid thin silver; text-align:center; width:65%;margin:auto;">

Read more at http://walterfootball.com/ProspectMeetings/ByTeam#yIGfsUg3yZOHMLqF.99
 
sg14 said:
Limited contact list from Walterfootball;

New England Patriots
<li style="width:60%;"> Jimmie Gilbert, OLB, Colorado (EW) <li style="width:60%;"> Leon McQuay III, S, USC (EW) <li style="width:60%;"> Carroll Phillips, DE/3-4OLB/OLB, Illinois (SR) <li style="width:60%;"> Josh Tupou, DT, Colorado (EW) <li style="width:60%;"> Chris Wormley, DE/DT/3-4DE, Michigan (SR) <li style="border-bottom:solid thin silver; text-align:center; width:65%;margin:auto;">

Read more at http://walterfootball.com/ProspectMeetings/ByTeam#yIGfsUg3yZOHMLqF.99
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I know I'm getting old when we're contacting a guy whose Grandfather played for the Pats.

We traded with the Giants for Leon "All the Way" McQuay back in the 70's and he wasn't very good for us after initially getting some buzz for his kick return skills. We had to change his nickname to "No Way".
 
The list of the 330 Combine invitees can be found here
 
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