The Deflategate stupid argument thread

[Beaglebay]

Bills are the first NFL team to hire full-time female coach.

 

[bideau]

PFT commenting on the chaging tide of opinion.

Criticism of NFL’s handling of #DeflateGate becomes mainstream

Posted by Mike Florio on January 23, 2016, 12:36 AM EST

On Sunday, the NFL will stage the first AFC championship game since the one that gave us #DeflateGate. Starting as a curiosity in the aftermath of the 45-7 blowout of the Colts by the Patriots when Bob Kravitz of WTHR in Indianapolis reported that the league was investigating whether New England used footballs that had less air in them than permitted, the oddity quickly became a hashtag when the league leaked to ESPN’s Chris Mortensen (and later to Peter King of TheMMQB.com and NBC) blatantly false information regarding the PSI measurements of the footballs used by the Patriots.

The reported numbers triggered a presumption that someone had released air from the footballs, putting the Patriots on their heels and justifying the league’s decision to conduct an independent investigation that wasn’t really independent. If the truth had come out as quickly as the falsehood did, the Patriots may have been able to quickly shout down the league and block a full-blown investigation.

The release in May of the Wells report, which included a finding that Patriots employees violated the rules via a scheme to deflate footballs and that quarterback Tom Brady was at least “generally aware” of the situation (Commissioner Roger Goodell found an even greater degree of culpability for Brady through the internal appeal process), caused many to assume that the Patriots were guilty as charged. Some, however, took a more skeptical look at the lengthy report and began to ask questions and otherwise to push back.

The biggest flaw came from the actual PSI numbers and the dramatically conflicting gauges used by the league to measure air pressure. Given the Ideal Gas Law (which emerged in some of the earliest media assessments of the situation but which the NFL admittedly had no knowledge of at the time), the real numbers — not the phony ones leaked to the media — suggested that the loss of pressure can be explained by science, not skullduggery.

Over time, the criticism has become mainstream, culminating in an article from Joe Nocera of the New York Times placing the blame for the situation on the NFL’s failure at first (and refusal thereafter) to realize that the answer to the deflation phenomenon lies in the formula known as PV = nRT. Nocera’s article contains no new information; indeed, he simply summarizes details about which anyone who has followed the case closely has been aware for months. But Nocera’s article will ensure that a broader audience understands precisely what the NFL did to the Patriots.

Many fans of the other 31 teams will continue not to care about what happened to the Patriots, but for the schadenfreude of those fans rooting for teams that regard the Patriots as rivals. But every fan of every NFL team should continue to worry about the type of arbitrary and results-oriented decision-making reflected by #DeflateGate, because their favorite NFL team could be the next to find itself on the wrong end of arbitrary and results-oriented decision-making.

 

[Claremonster]

Bills are the first NFL team to hire full-time female coach.

Hmmm... There's two Ryan coaches, and she has two feet... Makes sense.

 

[TheBSPolice]

The trouble is that if you're off by .1 PSI, it changes the conclusion. The Colts balls being at 13.2 instead of 13.0 would change things. The fact that some of the Pats balls measured a bit under and were inflated before the game started while others of their balls were not (and none of the colts balls were) impacts the starting temperature of those balls (due to the inflation, inflating balls raises their internal temp), their current gauge pressure, and their equilibrium pressure. It also accounts for the greater variance between Pats balls. The fact that some of them measured under makes it far more likely that Anderson was using the gauge which gives lower readings (the logo gauge). The data is horrendously lacking, but even so, what data their is certainly does support certain scientific findings, and those are that the Pats did not deflate their footballs.

While I disagree with you that a .1 psi error would change the results significantly, there are a number of variables that haven't been controlled in the data available which make any single conclusion unsupported.

I don't blame the NFL for the data mishandling though, there were no procedures for this type of issue and with two gauges being used, that although self-consistent, gave different readings, they really had no chance of creating a data set that could be conclusive.

 

[benhamean]

Colts balls tested later = warmer = higher pressure. PV= nRT. All the rest is persistent ignorance, enforced by steadily exposed lies.

 

[Beaglebay]

While I disagree with you that a .1 psi error would change the results significantly, there are a number of variables that haven't been controlled in the data available which make any single conclusion unsupported.

I don't blame the NFL for the data mishandling though, there were no procedures for this type of issue and with two gauges being used, that although self-consistent, gave different readings, they really had no chance of creating a data set that could be conclusive.

Then what good is the rule? If the NFL had no idea how to gather information to determine tampering (nevermind IGL), the rule is crap.

Also, the 12.5-13.5 window was established by Wilson to establish what they consider to be full efficiency of their product. Nowhere in the wording of the rule is it stated that under or over inflation would nor should be deemed as a competitive advantage.

 

[Giant Octopodes]

While I disagree with you that a .1 psi error would change the results significantly, there are a number of variables that haven't been controlled in the data available which make any single conclusion unsupported.

I don't blame the NFL for the data mishandling though, there were no procedures for this type of issue and with two gauges being used, that although self-consistent, gave different readings, they really had no chance of creating a data set that could be conclusive.

Which is why it should have been a warning :shrug_n:

I mean, if there were concerns heading into the game, they could've cut the whole thing off at the head by informing the Pats of their concerns. I guarantee there's no way BB allows anyone to be unsupervised with the balls if they do, and as such there would be no question about the events of that game.

Conversely, if their main concern was to "catch" the Pats in the act, I would expect them to actually draw out appropriate procedures and understand the science at play. Whether their goal was to prevent an issue from occurring or catch malfeasance, they failed to take the appropriate actions to do so.

As such, a warning would have been the appropriate response, and a year later, no one would still be talking about this. Do you disagree with the assertion that the only reason that is *not* the sequence of events that occurred is because it's the Pats?

Edit: God I wish I could edit my previous post in here. I consider it an embarrassment to have said "what data their is", regardless of it being 4am or how tired I was when writing that. But apparently there is a time limit on editing posts, which makes sense I suppose.

 

[Beaglebay]

Show me where the under or overinflation of an NFL football is cause for punishment. It is not stated to be as such in the NFL rules regarding the footballs at all. The NFL placed the PSI issue under the equipment violation clause, but the rule itself contains no language regarding violation nor tampering.

The NFL was allowed to merge two distinct rules under one umbrella. Their interpretation of the PSI rules added language which the document itself did not contain.

 

[Beaglebay]

http://static.nfl.com/static/conten...s/8_Rule5_Players_Subs_Equip_GeneralRules.pdf

Section 4 Equipment, Uniforms, Player Appearance
GENERAL POLICY

Article 1 Throughout the game-day period while in view of the stadium and television audience, including
during pregame warm-ups, all players must dress in a professional manner under the uniform standards
specified in this Section 4. They must wear equipment offering reasonable protection to themselves while
reasonably avoiding risk of injury to other players. They generally must present an appearance that is
appropriate to representing their individual clubs and the National Football League. The term uniform, as
used in this policy, applies to every piece of equipment worn by a player, including helmet, shoulder pads,
thigh pads, knee pads, and any other item of protective gear, and to every visible item of apparel,
including but not limited to pants, jerseys, wristbands, gloves, stockings, shoes, visible undergarments,
and accessories such as headwear, worn under helmets and hand towels. All visible items worn on gameday
by players must be issued by the club or the League, or, if from outside sources, must have approval
in advance by the League office.

Team colors
Article 2Pursuant to the official colors established for each NFL club in the League Constitution and Bylaws,
playing squads are permitted to wear only those colors or a combination of those colors for helmets,
jerseys, pants, and stockings; provided that white is also an available color for jerseys and mandatory
color for the lower portion of stockings [see 5-3-3-(f), “Stockings,” below]. Each player on a given team
must wear the same colors on his uniform as all other players on his team in the same game. Before July 1
each year, home clubs are required to report to the League office their choice of jersey color (either white
or official team color) for their home games of that forthcoming season, and visiting clubs must wear the
opposite. For preseason, regular season, or postseason games, the two competing teams may wear
jerseys in their official colors (non-white), provided the Commissioner determines that such colors are of
sufficient contrast.

Mandatory equipment, apparel
Article 3All players must wear the equipment and uniform apparel listed below, which must be of a suitably
protective nature, must be designed and produced by a professional manufacturer, and must not be cut,
reduced in size, or otherwise altered unless for medical reasons approved in advance by the
Commissioner. During pregame warm-ups players may omit certain protective equipment at their option,
except that helmets must be worn. Where additional rules are applicable to specific categories of
mandatory equipment or apparel, or where related equipment is optional, such provisions are also spelled
out below.

Helmets, face protectors
(a) Helmet with chinstrap (white only) fastened and facemask attached. Facemasks must not be more
than 5/8-inch in diameter and must be made of rounded material; transparent materials are
prohibited.
Clear (transparent) plastic eye shields are optional. Tinted eye shields may be worn only after the
League office is supplied with appropriate medical documentation and approval is subsequently
granted. The League office has final approval.
No visible identification of a manufacturer’s name or logo on the exterior of a helmet or on any
attachment to a helmet is permitted unless provided for under a commercial arrangement between the
League and manufacturer; in no event is identification of any helmet manufacturer permitted on the
visible surface of a rear cervical pad. All helmets must carry a small NFL shield logo on the rear lowerleft
exterior and an approved warning label on the rear lower-right exterior. Both labels will be supplied
in quantity by the League office.

Jerseys
(b) Jersey must cover all pads and other protective equipment worn on the torso and upper arms, and
must be appropriately tailored to remain tucked into the uniform pants throughout the game.
Tearaway jerseys are prohibited. Mesh jerseys with large fishnet material (commonly referred to as
“bullet-hole” or “port-hole” mesh) are also prohibited. Surnames of players in letters a minimum of 2
1/2-inches high must be affixed to the exterior of jerseys across the upper back above the numerals;
nicknames are prohibited. All jerseys must carry a small NFL Equipment logo at the middle of the
yoke of the neck on the front of the garment. All fabrics must be approved by the League office prior
to production.

Numerals
(c) Numerals on the back and front of jerseys in accordance with Rule 5, Section 1, Article 2. Such
numerals must be a minimum of 8 inches high and 4 inches wide, and their color must be in sharp
contrast with the color of the jersey. Smaller numerals should be worn on the tops of the shoulders or
upper arms of the jersey. Small numerals on the back of the helmet or on the uniform pants are
optional.

Pants
(d) Pants must be worn over the entire knee area; pants shortened or rolled up to meet the stockings
above the knee are prohibited. No part of the pants may be cut away unless an appropriate gusset or
other device is used to replace the removed material. All pants must carry a small NFL Equipment
logo on the front left groin area of the pants, midway between the fly opening and side seam, and 1/2-
inch below the belt.

Shoulder Pads
(e) Shoulder pads must be completely covered by the uniform jersey.

Stockings
(f) Stockings must cover the entire area from the shoe to the bottom of the pants, and must meet the
pants below the knee. Players are permitted to wear as many layers of stockings and tape on the
lower leg as they prefer, provided the exterior is a one-piece stocking that includes solid white from
the top of the shoe to the mid-point of the lower leg, and approved team color or colors (non-white)
from that point to the top of the stocking. Uniform stockings may not be altered (e.g., over-stretched,
cut at the toes, or sewn short) in order to bring the line between solid white and team colors lower or
higher than the mid-point of the lower leg. No other stockings and/or opaque tape may be worn over
the one-piece, two-color uniform stocking. Barefoot punters and placekickers may omit the stocking
of the kicking foot in preparation for and during kicking plays.

Shoes
(g) Shoes must be of standard football design, including “sneaker” type shoes such as basketball shoes,
cross-training shoes, etc. League-approved tri-colored shoes are permitted with black, white, and one
team color. Each team must select a dominant color for its shoes, either black or white (with shoelace
color conforming to the dominant color of the tongue area of the manufacturer’s shoe). The selection
of dominant color must be reported by each team to the League office no later than July 1 each year.
Each player may select among shoe styles previously approved by the League office. All players on
the same team must wear shoes with the same dominant color. Approved shoe styles will contain one
team color which must be the same for all players on a given team. A player may wear an unapproved
standard football shoe style as long as the player tapes over the entire shoe to conform to his team’s
selected dominant color. Logos, names, or other commercial identification on shoes are not permitted
to be visible unless advance approval is granted by the League office (see Article 7). Size and location
of logos and names on shoes must be approved by the League office. When a shoe logo or a name
approved by the League office is covered with an appropriate use of tape (see Article 4(f)), players will
be allowed to cut out the tape covering the original logo or name, provided the cut is clean and is the
exact size of the logo or name. The logo or name of the shoe manufacturer must not be reapplied to
the exterior of taped shoes unless advance approval is granted by the League office. Kicking shoes
must not be modified (including using a shoelace wrapped around toe and/or bottom of the shoe),
and any shoe that is worn by a player with an artificial limb on his kicking leg must have a kicking
surface that conforms to that of a normal kicking shoe. Punters and placekickers may omit the shoe
from the kicking foot in preparation for and during kicking plays. Punters and placekickers may wear
any combination of tri-colored shoes provided that the colors are consistent with those selected by the
team and with the policy listed above.

Items Colored Like Football
(g) Headgear or any other equipment or apparel which, in the opinion of the Referee, may confuse an
opponent because of its similarity in color to that of the game football. If such color is worn, it must be
broken by stripes or other patterns of sharply contrasting color or colors.

Approved Glove Color
(h) Gloves, wrappings, elbow pads, and other items worn on the arms below or over the jersey sleeves by
interior offensive linemen (excluding tight ends) which are of a color different from that which is
mandatorily reported to the League office by the club before July 1 each year. Such reported color
must be white or other official color of the applicable team, and, once reported, must not be changed
throughout that same season. Players at other positions (non-interior linemen) also may wear gloves
provided they are a solid white, solid black, or a solid color that is an official color of the applicable
club. Gloves may also be a tri-color combination of black, white, and one (1) official color of the
applicable club. Gloves may also be a bi-color combination of black or white with one (1) official color
of the applicable team. Clubs are not required to designate to the League office by July 1, the color of
gloves that will be worn by their non-interior linemen.

Adhesive, Slippery Substances
(i) Adhesive or slippery substances on the body, equipment, or uniform of any player; provided,
however, that players may wear gloves with a tackified surface if such tacky substance does not
adhere to the football or otherwise cause handling problems for players.

Prohibited Headwear Coverings
(k) Players are not permitted to wear bandannas, stockings, or other unapproved headwear anywhere on
the field during the pregame, game, or postgame periods, even if such items are worn under their
helmet.

RECOMMENDED EQUIPMENT
Article 5It is recommended that all players wear hip pads, thigh pads, and knee pads which reasonably
avoid the risk of injury. Unless otherwise provided by individual team policy, it is the players’ responsibility
and decision whether to follow this recommendation and use such pads. If worn, all three forms of pads
listed above must be covered by the outer uniform. Basketball-type knee pads are permitted but must also
be covered by the outer uniform.

OPTIONAL EQUIPMENT
Article 6Among the types of optional equipment that are permitted to be worn by players are the following:
Rib Protectors
(a) Rib protectors (“flak jackets”) under the jersey.
Wristbands
(b) Wristbands, provided they are white or black only.

Towels
(c) Towels, provided they are white licensed towels approved by the League office for use on the playing
field. Players are prohibited from adding to these towels personal messages, logos, names, symbols,
or illustrations. Such towels also must be attached to or tucked into the front waist of the pants, and
must be no larger than 6 x 8 inches (slightly larger size may be issued to quarterbacks, or may be
folded to these limits for wearing in games). A player may wear no more than one towel. Players are
prohibited from discarding on the playing field any loose towels or other materials used for wiping
hands and the football. Streamers or ribbons, regardless of length, hanging from any part of the
uniform, including the helmet, are prohibited.

Headwear
(d) When players are on the field, as defined in Article 1, during the pregame, game and postgame
periods, they may wear approved caps, approved cold weather gear, or other approved headwear for
medical purposes only, as determined by the Commissioner. Any permissible headwear must be
approved by the League office, and if worn under the helmet, no portion may hang from or otherwise
be visible outside the helmet.



***************************************************************

More at link.


Football PSI is not specifically defined as an equipment violation for which a team or a player may be punished. Footballs are not considered to be equipment under this rule.

The NFL and its officials alone are responsible for football PSI during games.

 

[TheBSPolice]

Then what good is the rule? If the NFL had no idea how to gather information to determine tampering (nevermind IGL), the rule is crap.

Also, the 12.5-13.5 window was established by Wilson to establish what they consider to be full efficiency of their product. Nowhere in the wording of the rule is it stated that under or over inflation would nor should be deemed as a competitive advantage.

The rule is there to establish what is standard for the games. There was no procedure to detect tampering because nobody anticipated that someone would attempt to alter the game balls once they had been inspected by the officials. There was never the supposition that game inflation data needed to be scientifically recorded when they trusted the officials to make sure the balls were set to standard before kickoff.

The only competitive advantage is in the quarterback's preference. There is a standard that both teams are supposed to use, so changing the balls to be outside that standard because the quarterback likes it better could be an unfair advantage.

Show me where the under or overinflation of an NFL football is cause for punishment. It is not stated to be as such in the NFL rules regarding the footballs at all. The NFL placed the PSI issue under the equipment violation clause, but the rule itself contains no language regarding violation nor tampering.

The NFL was allowed to merge two distinct rules under one umbrella. Their interpretation of the PSI rules added language which the document itself did not contain.

When Patriots fans complain that the report is biased, incomplete, or inaccurate, I can understand and see the merits of those arguments. When Patriots fans argue that the data isn't conclusive and the punishment doesn't fit the alleged crime, I can understand and see the merits of those arguments.

But when you guys go all rules-lawyer about nit picking language that it's not against the rules, this is where you complete go off the rails for me, and pardon me for speaking for other people, but I imagine for many others as well. I'm not going to scour the NFL rule book unless this tangent of the argument demands it, I have to much other stuff to read about this case. But you can't possibly tell me that changing the ball that literally gives the sport its name so that it deviates from the expected standards that have been confirmed and signed off on by the officials, is somehow not a brutal violation of competitive integrity regardless of what is printed in the rule book. If it is, in fact, absent, the absence is an oversight based on what should be an easy assumption, that no one in the league would have the audacity to do it.

Show me data that indicates they didn't do it, call into question the data that shows they may have, but please, don't insult my intelligence or yours by trying to claim that if they had done it it wouldn't be illegal.

The NFL and its officials alone are responsible for football PSI during games.

This is why it's wrong, by the way. Once the balls are delivered to the officials, the NFL and its officials alone are responsible for them. Any alteration after the official inspection is a gross violation of trust between the individuals responsible, the league, and the fans.

 

[Patriots4ever]

Can you understand the merits of the fact that spy gate wasn't illegal until 2007 and many other teams admitted to doing it as well?

 

[bideau]

Can you understand the merits of the fact that spy gate wasn't illegal until 2007 and many other teams admitted to doing it as well?

And further, it was never illegal to record signals even after the memo. The violation was the location of the camera. The rules stated that it had to be located in an area with 3 walls and a roof, in others words, a coaches box.

Opposing teams used to wave at the camera and the Pats would do the same thing to other teams cameras. Goodell destroyed the tapes because they showed other teams doing it and he was already waist deep in crap by that time.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Hmmm... Maybe because everything he just spent hours admitting to is a felony?

One conflict: justify the presence of a current MLB player if it's all BS.

Bump

 

[PatsFanLisa]

Bump

He's too busy finding justification for why Brady has more compelling evidence.

 

[Patriots4ever]

He's too busy finding justification for why Brady has more compelling evidence.

Maybe he works for the NFL

 

[TheBSPolice]

Hmmm... Maybe because everything he just spent hours admitting to is a felony?

One conflict: justify the presence of a current MLB player if it's all BS.

Maybe. Or maybe when he's trying to sell his services to someone he has no trouble making up stuff that they may find impressive to help out his business, knowing there really isn't a way to check whether he's lying. Then he crapped himself when he realized what kind of slander/ libel charges he might be open to when it was published. We'll just have to see where this goes.

He's too busy finding justification for why Brady has more compelling evidence.

I've made fewer than fifty posts here so it shouldn't take you too long to read them all, and I would love for you to find one, just one, where I have stated that Brady is guilty of anything.

 

[Beaglebay]

The rule is there to establish what is standard for the games. There was no procedure to detect tampering because nobody anticipated that someone would attempt to alter the game balls once they had been inspected by the officials. There was never the supposition that game inflation data needed to be scientifically recorded when they trusted the officials to make sure the balls were set to standard before kickoff.

The only competitive advantage is in the quarterback's preference. There is a standard that both teams are supposed to use, so changing the balls to be outside that standard because the quarterback likes it better could be an unfair advantage.


When Patriots fans complain that the report is biased, incomplete, or inaccurate, I can understand and see the merits of those arguments. When Patriots fans argue that the data isn't conclusive and the punishment doesn't fit the alleged crime, I can understand and see the merits of those arguments.

But when you guys go all rules-lawyer about nit picking language that it's not against the rules, this is where you complete go off the rails for me, and pardon me for speaking for other people, but I imagine for many others as well. I'm not going to scour the NFL rule book unless this tangent of the argument demands it, I have to much other stuff to read about this case. But you can't possibly tell me that changing the ball that literally gives the sport its name so that it deviates from the expected standards that have been confirmed and signed off on by the officials, is somehow not a brutal violation of competitive integrity regardless of what is printed in the rule book. If it is, in fact, absent, the absence is an oversight based on what should be an easy assumption, that no one in the league would have the audacity to do it.

Show me data that indicates they didn't do it, call into question the data that shows they may have, but please, don't insult my intelligence or yours by trying to claim that if they had done it it wouldn't be illegal.


This is why it's wrong, by the way. Once the balls are delivered to the officials, the NFL and its officials alone are responsible for them. Any alteration after the official inspection is a gross violation of trust between the individuals responsible, the league, and the fans.

Then why were the footballs in the game vs the Jets inflated to 16 PSI? Why was no one held accountable for that?

The rules clearly state that if any footballs during a game are found to be outside the accepted inflation, that the balls would be replaced by footballs within the accepted range; if no footballs were found acceptable, a football would be inflated or deflated by the officials and then used.

That's it--nowhere in the rules does it state that anyone would be accused of nor suspected of tampering.

You can think a punishment is implied, but it is not. The inflation rule is merely a standard set by Wilson for maximum efficiency of its product, and the NFL rules do not suggest that inflation which deviates from those standards give a competitive advantage nor constitutes an attempt by anyone to alter the footballs. The officials are held responsible for checking pressure throughout the game, period. If they were doing their job, any discrepancies would have been easily and sufficiently corrected.

You and others assume an awful lot, and read into a rule things which are not there. The DG accusers did the same thing. It was a witch hunt from the word "go".

 

[Beaglebay]

Here is another NFL rule. What do you assume the punishment for violating it is?

Jerseys
(b) Jersey must cover all pads and other protective equipment worn on the torso and upper arms, and
must be appropriately tailored to remain tucked into the uniform pants throughout the game.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Maybe. Or maybe when he's trying to sell his services to someone he has no trouble making up stuff that they may find impressive to help out his business, knowing there really isn't a way to check whether he's lying. Then he crapped himself when he realized what kind of slander/ libel charges he might be open to when it was published. We'll just have to see where this goes.


I've made fewer than fifty posts here so it shouldn't take you too long to read them all, and I would love for you to find one, just one, where I have stated that Brady is guilty of anything.

You still don't address the current MLB player present saying he does Slay's program too.

 

[TheBSPolice]

Then why were the footballs in the game vs the Jets inflated to 16 PSI? Why was no one held accountable for that?

The rules clearly state that if any footballs during a game are found to be outside the accepted inflation, that the balls would be replaced by footballs within the accepted range; if no footballs were found acceptable, a football would be inflated or deflated by the officials and then used.

That's it--nowhere in the rules does it state that anyone would be accused of nor suspected of tampering.

I can't answer why the balls in the Jets game were 16 psi because there is no actual evidence they were 16 psi. If the allegation is correct, my best guess would be it was a mistake, unless you have evidence to support some sort of tampering conspiracy for that game.

The rules that clearly talk about replacing balls, or being inflated or deflated, are things that happen prior to the opening kickoff. It's part of the inspection process. It is assumed that after the officials have inspected the balls the opportunity to tamper with them wouldn't exist. It's the idea of tampering with game balls after inspection that is the problem, not the actual change in PSI.

You can think a punishment is implied, but it is not. The inflation rule is merely a standard set by Wilson for maximum efficiency of its product, and the NFL rules do not suggest that inflation which deviates from those standards give a competitive advantage nor constitutes an attempt by anyone to alter the footballs. The officials are held responsible for checking pressure throughout the game, period. If they were doing their job, any discrepancies would have been easily and sufficiently corrected.

A punishment is implied anytime someone subverts the safeguards that are in place to protect the integrity of the game, i.e., the officials' game ball inspection. The officials aren't responsible for "checking pressure throughout the game", regardless of the punctuation you use after the phrase. They are responsible for inspecting the game balls at the beginning of the game. There should be no one accessing them without the officials present after the inspection, and McNally's possession of them by himself after that point is suspect.

Again, argue all you want that the PSI data was badly gathered and analyzed and ultimately inconclusive. Argue that the punishment was out of sync with similar infractions. Those arguments have basis. But please don't try to state that if all of this were true that even then, nobody did anything wrong. If the allegations are true, Brady cheated, no matter how much you try to bend the rule book.

If the allegations are false, then Brady is innocent, and his reputation has been unfairly tarnished by unproven conjecture based on circumstantial evidence.

I've said before, and I stand behind this, there is not enough evidence available for anyone but Brady, McNally, and Jastremski to know the truth either way.

You still don't address the current MLB player present saying he does Slay's program too.

I haven't addressed the fact that someone who isn't Manning confesses to having used HGH? Does someone who isn't Manning using HGH, through some brand of logic with which I'm unfamiliar, somehow mean that Manning must have used it too? Is this really a point you're trying to make or are you just effing with me? You're just hazing the new guy, right?