The Newest Definitive "Are We Alone?" Collective Debate

Hawg, the pattern matching thing is most significant when one is presented with something out of the ordinary.

Let me give you an example. I've been wearing glasses for over 50 years, so I've had countless eye exams over that period.

You get into a habit when you take those exams and are asked to read what you see. Things fall into groups. You learn to consider what letters have common shapes and choose which one you think it is. For example, an E or a B, an O or a Q, etc.

Well I recall one time when I was getting an exam and when I got to the end of one of the lines, my brain froze. I couldn't process what I saw. I glitched and then realized it was a 3. I had never had an eye chart with numbers so my brain was not expecting to see them. As I recall, I said to the eye doctor "Holy shit, that's a 3, and the one at the end of the previous line isn't an S, but a 5!"

Yeah, I had called the 5 an S on the previous line because my brain was expecting letters and so that's what I saw.

So as long as one is looking at "normal" things, the pattern matching works fine and we never notice the discrepancies. It's only when we observe things that step outside of the "normal" that the pattern matching can prove problematic.

Hell, consider any controversial NFL ruling and I can assure you the fans for either team will be 100% certain they saw completely different things. Is the reality all that different, or do their perspectives make them focus and ignore different things? Clearly the latter.

Oh and regarding the radar data look here

Oh and with regards to the temple mount video?

Get cranky and tell me why it can't be ball lightning.

Please explain just what are the specific descriptions/limitations we know, with some degree of certainty, that say it couldn't do that.

ok so to summarize up your position:
  • highly resistant and skeptical to any data or evidence or facts about unidentified phenomena violating the laws of newtonian physics
  • but if aliens were there, you think they’d act like 20th century humans without accepting the possibility they could be different or more evolved/moral than how current humans act
I suppose point2 explains why you are so resistant on point1. Can’t fathom aliens exist for you because, if they did exist, for you we’d already be enslaved/attacked by now
 
Hawg, the pattern matching thing is most significant when one is presented with something out of the ordinary.

Let me give you an example. I've been wearing glasses for over 50 years, so I've had countless eye exams over that period.

You get into a habit when you take those exams and are asked to read what you see. Things fall into groups. You learn to consider what letters have common shapes and choose which one you think it is. For example, an E or a B, an O or a Q, etc.

Well I recall one time when I was getting an exam and when I got to the end of one of the lines, my brain froze. I couldn't process what I saw. I glitched and then realized it was a 3. I had never had an eye chart with numbers so my brain was not expecting to see them. As I recall, I said to the eye doctor "Holy shit, that's a 3, and the one at the end of the previous line isn't an S, but a 5!"

Yeah, I had called the 5 an S on the previous line because my brain was expecting letters and so that's what I saw.

So as long as one is looking at "normal" things, the pattern matching works fine and we never notice the discrepancies. It's only when we observe things that step outside of the "normal" that the pattern matching can prove problematic.

Hell, consider any controversial NFL ruling and I can assure you the fans for either team will be 100% certain they saw completely different things. Is the reality all that different, or do their perspectives make them focus and ignore different things? Clearly the latter.

Oh and regarding the radar data look here

Oh and with regards to the temple mount video?

Get cranky and tell me why it can't be ball lightning.

Please explain just what are the specific descriptions/limitations we know, with some degree of certainty, that say it couldn't do that.

So, the number/letter thing caused you issues? Did you see the report that the switch to a letter system fouled up our pass blocking this season? That would
tend to support your supposition that pattern matching is responsible for sightings of UFOs, but doesn't prove it. Still, you've moved me off my spot
and I will concede that it could be responsible for maybe 2 per cent of sightings instead of the 1 per cent baseline I came into the conversation with. It remains
a recognized psychological phenomena, but serves as a wildly improbable hypothesis for explaining sightings that involve more than one person, never mind hundreds/thousands
reporting or observing essentially the same object (Phoenix lights, Westall high school, Victoria, Australia, Rendelsham Forest UK etc., etc.). You dog
is alive but still won't hunt.

I'm going to abandon the Temple Mount video since I can't be sure if the multi-screen shot was actually a very elaborate and clever hoax or not, so,.....my bad.

A website that exists to debate these things went down the rabbit hole on the topic and wound up just banning it because it became divisive and
was eventually locked.

Since real scientists struggle to define what causes ball lightning or it's characteristics then it would be a waste of time for me to suggest that it couldn't possible descend straight down slowly out of a clear sky, hover and then shoot straight up like a rocket. For all anybody knows, much less me, ball lightning could do exactly that, even if nothing else in the natural world behaves that way.

Ball lightning could likely put on leopard-skin spandex and do the M3GAN dance to the 80's hit song St. Elmo's Fire if it wanted to. Just to be ironic.

You can't be certain of something that isn't fully understood and if that's your larger point, then congratulations are in order.

However, I don't require 100% certainty to believe that this planet is being visited by ETs in UAPs, nor can you be 100% certain
that I'm wrong about that. I don't have to prove something to believe it is true and that's how I'm going with this thing.

Let's just play our roles, shall we? You can be Horatio, the icon of rational thought, and I can be Hamlet explaining that there are more things
in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Peace, out.
 
The SR-71 Blackbird first flew in 1964.

The F-117 Nighthawk first flew in 1981. Mind you, the F-117 is unstable in flight, it cannot be flown by human hands without computer assistance making constant microadjustments to keep it in the air. This is in 1981. My school at the time just got 4 TRS-80 computers, considered cutting edge in personal computers at the time, with their two 5 1/4" floppy drives and 45KB of RAM. But, the F-117 was flying with computer assistance making multiple microadjustments per second.

Think about those planes and those dates. The SR-71 was flying just a year after JFK got shot...this was around the time that Transistor radios were just coming into their own as a commercial product, replacing vaccuum tubes.....and the SR-71 was flying.

If you took the average American at the time and showed them these planes, the SR-71 Blackbird in 1964, and the F-117 Nighthawk in 1981, it would be "proof of alien technology", because they were technologically DECADES ahead of anything civilians were familiar with....not to mention their aesthetics, all black, angular...just look at them and think about what all those "modern jet fighters" looked like on TV in the 60's...think about those Godzilla movies and such....where high tech aircraft were depicted as shiny aluminum with swept wings, and that was how you knew it was a high tech, modern aircraft. Anyone in that time would look at the SR-71 Blackbird and say "We didn't make that, it's impossible"....or at the F-117 with it's gold windows and weird diamond cut configuration and say "we didn't make that, it doesn't look like an F-14 at all, our most modern aircraft".

My point being, that I think someone like Ratcliffe can come out in public today and say "UFO's", knowing full well that they are ours, but with technology the average American won't even know exists until roughly 2040.
 
My point being, that I think someone like Ratcliffe can come out in public today and say "UFO's", knowing full well that they are ours, but with technology the average American won't even know exists until roughly 2040.

It's a solid point and that scenario would have to be in the realm of possibility. There is evidence that we've been attempting to reverse engineer UFOs for somewhere around 60 years and
maybe we've managed to figure out how to make a clean, quiet, controlled fission engine that can defeat gravity, inertia and, I suppose, time. That's a lot to wrap your head around.

Thing is, a technology like that could be used for a lot more than flying. I've seen speculation that the power inherent in one such engine, about the size of a lawnmower engine, could power a major city for decades. It wouldn't just be about getting an edge in space or dominating the skies over Earth. IF we've figured out how to do this then the question becomes WHO controls the tech? Is it our Government or is it some military industrial giant(s) who aren't inclined to share with anybody for selfish reasons.

It's pretty easy to go off the deep end into various theories, but I certainly don't believe that all the stuff people have seen and experienced going way back in History are from
some American black budget time travel operation. If we've got it now then we stole it from a different species and somebody will, in turn, steal it from us.

The 1897 Aurora, Texas incident was interesting. Who figured out you could hoax people over UFOs back when nobody had even heard of one? 50 years before Roswell.

aurora.jpg
 
It's a solid point and that scenario would have to be in the realm of possibility. There is evidence that we've been attempting to reverse engineer UFOs for somewhere around 60 years and
maybe we've managed to figure out how to make a clean, quiet, controlled fission engine that can defeat gravity, inertia and, I suppose, time. That's a lot to wrap your head around.

Thing is, a technology like that could be used for a lot more than flying. I've seen speculation that the power inherent in one such engine, about the size of a lawnmower engine, could power a major city for decades. It wouldn't just be about getting an edge in space or dominating the skies over Earth. IF we've figured out how to do this then the question becomes WHO controls the tech? Is it our Government or is it some military industrial giant(s) who aren't inclined to share with anybody for selfish reasons.

It's pretty easy to go off the deep end into various theories, but I certainly don't believe that all the stuff people have seen and experienced going way back in History are from
some American black budget time travel operation. If we've got it now then we stole it from a different species and somebody will, in turn, steal it from us.

The 1897 Aurora, Texas incident was interesting. Who figured out you could hoax people over UFOs back when nobody had even heard of one? 50 years before Roswell.

View attachment 15170
One example of these inconsistencies is that the airship was supposed to have hit a windmill on Judge J.S. Proctor’s farm. There was, however, no windmill on his farm at the time that the collision was supposed to have happened.


Furthermore, there is no evidence of personal records related to the event, such as bills for removal of debris material, or any records of the pilot’s body being placed in the Aurora cemetery. Also, there are no museums, historical societies, or private individuals that have any examples of the pieces of the debris or the writings they supposedly found on the pilot’s person containing alien hieroglyphs.


Additionally, the supposed authority on Astronomy, T.J. Weems, was not a signal service officer but the town blacksmith.




It turns out that for four days prior to the Aurora crash, Texas newspapers had been abuzz with reports of balloons and airships. By 1897, when this happened, hot air balloons had been flying for more than a century, and their appearance over Texas may well have been a curiosity but hardly unknown. But Texas newspapers were in the habit of outdoing each other. The Texas Almanac gives this account of 38 newspaper reports covering 23 counties:


Newspapers of the day reported the sightings straight-faced, although one can read more than a little tongue-in-cheek writing into some of the dispatches from community correspondents... In Farmersville, an eyewitness saw three men in the cabin and heard them singing "Nearer My God to Thee." The trio reportedly also was passing out temperance tracts... Texans always have to one-up each other, and the "airship" craze provided a perfect setting.
And so it was only after nearly a week of this colorful storytelling that the Dallas Morning News decided to run a full page featuring the best of all these stories. Page 5 of the April 19, 1897 edition contained the editors' sixteen favorite yarns, each a silly story from a different town. In one, an "aerial monster" landed in a field, piloted by men from New York. In another, the crew consisted of lost Jews from the ten tribes of Israel who told a judge they'd come from the North Pole. Another of the stories was the following, given here in its entirety:
*********************************************************************************************************************************************************
The 1897 article was written by S. E. Haydon, a cotton buyer in Aurora, left over from the town's boom times prior to 1890. Judge J. S. Proctor, upon whose property the crash took place, was a local justice of the peace and a friend of Haydon's. Both men often submitted satirical essays and poems to local papers. Proctor even wrote his own version of Haydon's alien tale and published it in his own paper called the Aurora News, and when town constable J. D. Reynolds read it, he "roared with laughter" and said "The judge has really outdone himself this time."


Porterfield even tracked down T. J. Weems, described in Haydon's article as a "United States signal service officer... and an authority on astronomy." This was, evidently, a joke on a friend; as T. Jeffrey Weems was Aurora's blacksmith and farrier, and knew no more about astronomy than his average equine customer.


Sorry man. I'm not trying to dis you're belief.

I ended up here because my "assumption" was that it was a zeppelin, which were just being developed, patented, and flown at exactly that time...so I started by researching zeppelin development and any crashes that occurred.

It wouldn't surprise me if zeppelins weren't the inspiration for the story.

I know that the era of the mid to late 19th ceentury, and early into the 20th, was also an era of imagination and sensation, beginning with the mostly fictional "wild west", fictional stories written as news, and culminating in pulp fiction, both horror and science fiction, all things supernatural was very popular once the west was more or less settled, which continued until the advent of WW2.

Don't get me wrong, I wholeheartedly belief in extra terrestrial life, I just don't believe they are here, flying around and kidnapping crazy cat ladies or whatever...and I certainly don't believe that an interstellar species would crash into a windmill, and if they did, I am pretty confident they could retrieve the debris, the bodies, and clean it up. They would treat it like we treat a "Broken Arrow" a nuke lost in a foreign country that we don't want to have nukes.
 
Ah, Flagg, Anton, he's great, a very informed person with a good viewpoint.

If anyone hasn't seen it, there's a very good recent Unsolved Mysteries episode entitled "Something in the Sky". It depicts a 1994 Lake Michigan incident, there are hundreds of witnesses and radar tapes from the weather installations in the area.

Further info on it:


 
Ah, Flagg, Anton, he's great, a very informed person with a good viewpoint.

If anyone hasn't seen it, there's a very good recent Unsolved Mysteries episode entitled "Something in the Sky". It depicts a 1994 Lake Michigan incident, there are hundreds of witnesses and radar tapes from the weather installations in the area.

Further info on it:


Anton is doing a series on this subject generally, Fermi Paradox and responses specifically. I suspect it will be pretty good.
 
With all the wild "balloon" activity going on in the skies above Canada and the US as of late, these comments from the late Stanton Friedman's come to mind:

Stanton Friedman, in "Crash at Corona":

"Earth could also be a laboratory for alien psychologists studying human behavior, much as we study rats in a maze, or monkeys under special conditions, using one-way mirrors and tape recorders."
 
Sunday Night Update from the Pentagon - I would call this significant.

The 4th object was shot down over Lake Huron this afternoon (2/12/23) by an F-16 fighter:



Obects - Not Balloons .jpeg
 
At very least, our pilots are getting some practice shooting stuff out of the sky, so it's not all bad.

Still, I'm really curious what Xi thinks he's getting out of this. Assuming it's all China. I will assume that our military will take a look
at the wreckage, figure out exactly what that is and we'll eventually get a sanitized version

I've heard various reports that the objects aren't identical and there was the "unknown propulsion system" report, but
I'm not holding my breath that particular report is accurate or any of this stuff is alien or we wouldn't have been able to shoot them down.
 
Still, I'm really curious what Xi thinks he's getting out of this. Assuming it's all China. I will assume that our military will take a look
at the wreckage, figure out exactly what that is and we'll eventually get a sanitized version

I've heard various reports that the objects aren't identical and there was the "unknown propulsion system" report, but
I'm not holding my breath that particular report is accurate or any of this stuff is alien or we wouldn't have been able to shoot them down.

As I understand it, photos taken from a much lower altitude from a platform that is close to stationary will yield very high resolution results, perhaps better than satellites in a much higher orbit. Plus, it can simply "loiter" and wait as long as necessary...or at least until a missle comes flying your way.

It seems they are "walking back" some earlier statements now, saying stuff "like we may never recover any of them" And - "we believe they are all balloons, not objects" Plus, they held a classified briefing today for some senators, but when some were interviewed later, none seemed satisfied, indicating they have more questions now than answers at this point. So, there appears to be a big scramble is going on - and - shock - the early stages of yet another government obfuscation job may be underway.......:mad:
 
The Lake Huron object, it was at 40,000 feet in altitude, hovering, no visible means of lift or propulsion.....hope it gets recovered and we hear about it....thats highly unlikely of course:

 
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