The Newest Definitive "Are We Alone?" Collective Debate

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Flagg the Wanderer said:
Your logic is like saying the universe is infinite, and not every planet is inhabited, and an infinite number divided by any finite number is so small that it's not worth talking about, so the whole universe is uninhabited on average. Your problem is that we're dealing with the probability of going from 1 to 2, where 1 is already a given.
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The mathematical operations of addition/subtraction/multiplication/division don't apply to infinities.

Mathematicians don't say that 1/∞ = 0. What they say is the limit of 1/x as x approaches infinity is zero.

Getting back to your post: even if one could divide an infinite number by a finite number, why would it result in a number "so small that it's not worth talking about"?

Did you mistakenly invert the numerator and denominator in that sentence?
 
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TipRoast said:
The mathematical operations of addition/subtraction/multiplication/division don't apply to infinities.

Mathematicians don't say that 1/∞ = 0. What they say is the limit of 1/x as x approaches infinity is zero.

Getting back to your post: even if one could divide an infinite number by a finite number, why would it result in a number "so small that it's not worth talking about"?

Did you mistakenly invert the numerator and denominator that sentence?
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thats what im thinking
 
TipRoast said:
The mathematical operations of addition/subtraction/multiplication/division don't apply to infinities.

Mathematicians don't say that 1/∞ = 0. What they say is the limit of 1/x as x approaches infinity is zero.

Getting back to your post: even if one could divide an infinite number by a finite number, why would it result in a number "so small that it's not worth talking about"?

Did you mistakenly invert the numerator and denominator in that sentence?
Click to expand...
Yes, I flipped them. The rest was pure Douglas Adams.
 
RoadNasty said:
He quotes Bill Clinton, when asked about disclosure: "There's a governemnt inside the government, and I don't control it"


View: https://twitter.com/i/status/1671241599735529486
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The other day I heard a quote that the adoption of paranoia is "a healthy sign that a person is intelligent and well-adjusted". Or something to that effect.

I realize that it sounds like crazy talk, or would to most, but I am leaning towards a theory that the U.S. is, in fact, controlled by a bunch of
people that we don't even know and they aren't beholden to laws, taxes or any of us. They aren't beholden to Presidents or anybody else
that gets elected by the people. I believe this because of the experiences of any Government official, including Bill Clinton, who have
attempted to use their clout and found out that it doesn't work when you attempt to penetrate the fogbanks surrounding the truth
about aliens and the UAP experience.

I also read a really eye-opening book by former Congressman Jason Chaffetz called The Deep State. Among other things he details, as
acting head of the Congressional Watchdog whatever committee, an attempt to get some accounting of the many trillions of dollars
annually funneled into black budget projects -- AKA the biggest pork barrel in human history. Unsurprisingly, he was laughed at and that was one
of the last straws that convinced him to leave public service. He was too frustrated. And his story is just one of many that are similar. He
thought that being a Congressman he was going to be able to do something to help people, but he found out that it's all just a big
puppet show and he was tired of the strings.

He didn't really get into UFOs in the book, that I recall, but there are too many references out there to Blackrock or Lockheed and other para-military/industrial
outfits that few folks know shit about for me to feel like Bill's quote above is just a cryptic one-liner said with a wink. He wasn't kidding. And I think that the whole
thing got rolling when the Government didn't know what the hell to do with crashed UFOs way back before Roswell. Then seed technology, to
the extent it can be reverse-engineered, is retained by corporate partners to keep their hold on power, which is unsurpassed in the western world. The desire to
keep the whole UFO unsavory mess from you and me (to, uhhhhh, prevent panic) inadvertently (or not) gave them carte blanche to keep doing it permanently and without any
oversight. Shadow Government is not a joke. As ludicrous as it sounds, it's totally fucking real and the basis for all of it started in UFOs, The Holy Grail of all
of this is to replicate the power source that the craft use. Some think it has already been achieved, or has partially been.

Remember the first time you saw the Stealth Bomber? That might not be the last time we find out about something weird that our people developed
with almost zero public knowledge. So, what's the difference between the development of a high-tech USAF bomber that made the Gulf War much
easier to win fast and a craft that has cracked the barrier of gravity, inertia and fuel? The answer is that the latter tech could change every aspect of travel,
warfare, space travel..... It's effect is incalculable and massive. The world would become a much different place, that much is easy enough to see.

I'm not planning on proving every aspect of my views above, because it's been decades of reading stuff that all came back to the
above, and much of it came from high Government officials. If any skeptics are reading this, then you may think me nuts, but I definitely
believe what I state here.

Essentially,........it means we're all fucked.
 
Hawg73 said:
The other day I heard a quote that the adoption of paranoia is "a healthy sign that a person is intelligent and well-adjusted". Or something to that effect.

I realize that it sounds like crazy talk, or would to most, but I am leaning towards a theory that the U.S. is, in fact, controlled by a bunch of
people that we don't even know and they aren't beholden to laws, taxes or any of us. They aren't beholden to Presidents or anybody else
that gets elected by the people. I believe this because of the experiences of any Government official, including Bill Clinton, who have
attempted to use their clout and found out that it doesn't work when you attempt to penetrate the fogbanks surrounding the truth
about aliens and the UAP experience.

I also read a really eye-opening book by former Congressman Jason Chaffetz called The Deep State. Among other things he details, as
acting head of the Congressional Watchdog whatever committee, an attempt to get some accounting of the many trillions of dollars
annually funneled into black budget projects -- AKA the biggest pork barrel in human history. Unsurprisingly, he was laughed at and that was one
of the last straws that convinced him to leave public service. He was too frustrated. And his story is just one of many that are similar. He
thought that being a Congressman he was going to be able to do something to help people, but he found out that it's all just a big
puppet show and he was tired of the strings.

He didn't really get into UFOs in the book, that I recall, but there are too many references out there to Blackrock or Lockheed and other para-military/industrial
outfits that few folks know shit about for me to feel like Bill's quote above is just a cryptic one-liner said with a wink. He wasn't kidding. And I think that the whole
thing got rolling when the Government didn't know what the hell to do with crashed UFOs way back before Roswell. Then seed technology, to
the extent it can be reverse-engineered, is retained by corporate partners to keep their hold on power, which is unsurpassed in the western world. The desire to
keep the whole UFO unsavory mess from you and me (to, uhhhhh, prevent panic) inadvertently (or not) gave them carte blanche to keep doing it permanently and without any
oversight. Shadow Government is not a joke. As ludicrous as it sounds, it's totally fucking real and the basis for all of it started in UFOs, The Holy Grail of all
of this is to replicate the power source that the craft use. Some think it has already been achieved, or has partially been.

Remember the first time you saw the Stealth Bomber? That might not be the last time we find out about something weird that our people developed
with almost zero public knowledge. So, what's the difference between the development of a high-tech USAF bomber that made the Gulf War much
easier to win fast and a craft that has cracked the barrier of gravity, inertia and fuel? The answer is that the latter tech could change every aspect of travel,
warfare, space travel..... It's effect is incalculable and massive. The world would become a much different place, that much is easy enough to see.

I'm not planning on proving every aspect of my views above, because it's been decades of reading stuff that all came back to the
above, and much of it came from high Government officials. If any skeptics are reading this, then you may think me nuts, but I definitely
believe what I state here.

Essentially,........it means we're all fucked.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't pretty much all of the above be just as easily accomplished with the rumors of UFOs, but not actual UFOs?
 
Some very insightful comments Hawg - great stuff.

For us,it certainly looks like all those rumors are true - we have been in the crash retrival business for decades. Are we in a race to master this off world technology? You bet. But unfortunatley, it's controlled by - as Dwight Eisenhower termed it back in 1960 - the military industrial complex.Congress is now trying to pry open that lid of secrecy.

Sen Daniel Inouye made mention of the "shadow government" back in the 80's - if you haven't see it - note below. I'm like you though - what is the exact make up of all this? Who are the big players? We can guess Lockheed, Raytheon, Northrup - all the usual suspects- but who controls the huge money flow to them? Is it a secret MJ-12 type group? And, as you alluded to - the big players want desperatley to hold on to their power, and increase it as quickly as possible. Our whistle blower hero David Grousch, termed the whole situation the new "Cold War", and got to say I agree with that. China would hit us in an instant if they mastered this exotic technology - likewise for Russia and that bastard Putin. BTW- you mentioned the Stealth bomber - supposedly it has an anti grav component to it that greatly increases its range, so we may very well be seeing some benefits from these back engineering efforts. Like you say, the effects of all this would be massive and earth shaking.

Hopefully we - the US and our allies, won't get fucked when its all said and done. But we have to win this race, and keep the lid on this technology. But....it sounds like its not just decades ahead of us, it may be thousands of years. I mean, manipulating gravity, space, and time..? I know they are all related....but...damn...



View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbFphX5zb8w
 
Release of physical evidence and reasonably convincing video would be nice. Some of what is discussed there would do it.
 
Flagg the Wanderer said:
Wouldn't pretty much all of the above be just as easily accomplished with the rumors of UFOs, but not actual UFOs?
Click to expand...

Well.....the Government has been in the business of meticulous obfuscation/disinformation for somewhere north of 75 years. And that
has been almost thoroughly successful in obscuring what many, like me, believe are the actual facts, then sure you could.

I believe that you could convince most people of almost anything given enough money, effort and time. The UFO thing is a great example
of that. Debunking UFOs is the easiest thing in the world, because the truth is so beyond what we've been trained since birth to
believe that people feel far more comfortable being handed a ludicrous or impossible explanation rather than challenge their entire
world-view by accepting that everything they have understood might be wrong. A lie. Most people don't like that and won't accept it. Yet.

Humans are quite susceptible to brainwashing, but it's important to note that brainwashing exists to hide truths that people in
power desire to keep hidden to benefit themselves.
 
Hawg73 said:
Well.....the Government has been in the business of meticulous obfuscation/disinformation for somewhere north of 75 years. And that
has been almost thoroughly successful in obscuring what many, like me, believe are the actual facts, then sure you could.

I believe that you could convince most people of almost anything given enough money, effort and time. The UFO thing is a great example
of that. Debunking UFOs is the easiest thing in the world, because the truth is so beyond what we've been trained since birth to
believe that people feel far more comfortable being handed a ludicrous or impossible explanation rather than challenge their entire
world-view by accepting that everything they have understood might be wrong. A lie. Most people don't like that and won't accept it. Yet.

Humans are quite susceptible to brainwashing, but it's important to note that brainwashing exists to hide truths that people in
power desire to keep hidden to benefit themselves.
Click to expand...
Right, I'm with you. But the point here, is wouldn't all of that stuff be true if there weren't UFOs as well? And wouldn't allowing continuous, dripping leaks of rumors of a coverup and the government being set up Studio 54 style, where there is always another door also allow for the same gathering, concentration, and retention of power? The enfeeblement of the elected government to have any real power and effect any real change?

What part of this requires UFOs to actually exist to be true?

I'm just being devil's advocate and going to Occam's Razor, here. Assuming everything you're talking about is true in terms of the government, etc., it is more easily and simply explained with a feigned coverup and normal scientific innovation (which tends to come with leaps accenting steady progress) than actual interstellar visitors.

And again, I take no position on the existence of interstellar visitors. I think it's possible, but requires a shitload of leaps that aren't required to explain what we are seeing.
 
Flagg the Wanderer said:
Right, I'm with you. But the point here, is wouldn't all of that stuff be true if there weren't UFOs as well? And wouldn't allowing continuous, dripping leaks of rumors of a coverup and the government being set up Studio 54 style, where there is always another door also allow for the same gathering, concentration, and retention of power? The enfeeblement of the elected government to have any real power and effect any real change?

What part of this requires UFOs to actually exist to be true?

I'm just being devil's advocate and going to Occam's Razor, here. Assuming everything you're talking about is true in terms of the government, etc., it is more easily and simply explained with a feigned coverup and normal scientific innovation (which tends to come with leaps accenting steady progress) than actual interstellar visitors.

And again, I take no position on the existence of interstellar visitors. I think it's possible, but requires a shitload of leaps that aren't required to explain what we are seeing.
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Flagg, my friend, your logic is as razor-sharp as always and I disagree with none of it in principle. Despite some occasional differences in opinion, I
always respect yours and the way you can disagree without being disagreeable.

Your statement made me think of the Big Brother government of Orwell's 1984 which reported daily on a never-ending foreign war that
necessitated the citizens of Oceania to live like paupers because of desperate shortages needed to help the troops. That war was fictional, but it served the
purpose to keep the people pawns who kept the machine running while the rulers took everything.

I agree that you don't need aliens to pull something like you describe, but I think, in this case, that it really did happen. Nobody in Washington or in our
military had a clue what to do, so they took the existing secret reverse engineering program and went completely over the top using special
industrial partners.

America's Founding Fathers were people of great vision who had seen what can happen when people have no voice and they invented
a government by and for the people along with an intelligent system of checks and balances that prevented, almost entirely, tyrannical abuses
like what Orwell wrote about.

I think one thing that never crossed those Founding Fathers minds was anything pertaining to ETs visiting Earth.

It took undeniable proof dropped right into our laps to start our military thinking about what we could do if we could build a better
mousetrap and rout the Germans, Japs or Russians if we could just figure some of that fancy shit out and it just got way, way out of hand.

I think Eisenhower ran into the brick wall of secret projects and untraceable cash a few times before he made the following statement. The
cat had already gotten out of the bag by the time he arrived in the big chair. You may believe that conventional warfare caused the rise of the
MI complex, but I only partially agree. I believe it was deeper than just that, but the endgame was and is much the same.

From his epic exit speech which can be read in full here:


Interestingly, you could interpret much of that speech based on either of our viewpoints and it works pretty well, but
it was pretty obvious that he was trying to tell us all something.


This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry
is new in the American experience... We recognize the imperative need for this
development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications.... In the
councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted
influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The
potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We
must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic
processes.
-- Dwight D. Eisenhower
 
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It's a step in the right direction and as the people gradually start getting the idea that, hey, this
stuff is real, and continue demanding answers of their elected officials, then maybe those guys
will start coming around. I suppose it's possible that if a large enough segment of State Reps and
Senators get pissed off enough then maybe some more actual disclosure is possible. And they
should be pissed, because the information is hidden not only from us, but from them.

However, I'm of a belief that the whole story will never be revealed, because it is way, way out there. It
would be a total shock even for the UAP true believers, nevermind the folks in Peoria.

I don't feel comfortable putting some of the wilder stuff I've run across in print, because I
can't even process it well enough to do so.

It's going to be a long road, unless something comes right out of the sky and shocks the world.

On a related note, here is the greatest UFO song of all time. Check out the graphics in the background. Yes,
John is a believer.


View: https://youtu.be/aBf3dHhsYnc
 
Hawg73 said:
However, I'm of a belief that the whole story will never be revealed, because it is way, way out there. It
would be a total shock even for the UAP true believers, nevermind the folks in Peoria.

I don't feel comfortable putting some of the wilder stuff I've run across in print, because I
can't even process it well enough to do so.
Click to expand...

I agree Hawg, there are some wild claims out there.

I just read this article today, content wise it's rather wild at times and intense. Perhaps knowledge of this nature is why Congressman Tim Burchette made the recent comment we could become "charcoal" if the aliens desired to do so.

Where the actual truth resides, well, I hope we find out. Wisely, we'll probably not get all of it, but that's ok- just provide us the basic truths and answer some of the major questions that have haunted many of us for years.

uapmax.com

Aliens Are Here- Biden Met Them - They Are Not Friendly - UAPMax UFO News

UFO and UAP disclosure is upon us. Biden knows, he met then. Extraterrestrial beings are not friendly. We are not alone.
uapmax.com uapmax.com
 
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