What's NASA Hiding?

OK, let's assume for a moment that these really were ET floating over those cities.

Where are the other reports about that?

How come only one guy in each city noticed this?

Why didn't other people notice it and snap a photo or video?

Hell, YouTube is full of cell phone video's of so many other mundane things that happen in our cities, why aren't there multiple versions of these ET's?

Maybe because they didn't look that mysterious to everyone else?

OK, let's give you an example.

From 2011, this video shows 3 different camera angles of the same object hovering over the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem and then taking off at a high rate of speed.

Ball lightning? Something.....else?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/mHSqRKmhQcs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Since OPT is a guy that prefers a lot of evidence in order to make his analysis, I'll kick in another quick vid of the same incident at closer range to help him out.

I don't think it is possible to trickerize 4 different views, but, somewhat oddly, the bright flashes visible on the 3 previous clips just before this unidentified aerial phenomena streaks upwards does not show up in the vid below. Curious, but perhaps the ambient light explains that.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/rY2FFEufsuY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

While there is a bit of redundancy in the next clip and it is longer, I included it because it's got some fresh angles and also some crazy-ass speculation about an electrical generator and some other wilder stuff that might save OPT some digging in order to debunk this incident, because God knows this is getting complicated.

Have fun with it! I know I did!

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/JpWl4NyZzcA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/knY-ph_PHVg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
:coffee:
 
I've seen other videos and read reports of the incident - his security police saw the objects over the facility - something was there.

OK, something was there.

But what?

No one knows or it wouldn't be a mystery.

So as I said, all we really know is that a red light was spotted and the missiles stopped working.

Anything else is simply speculation and not proven.
 
OK, let's give you an example.

From 2011, this video shows 3 different camera angles of the same object hovering over the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem and then taking off at a high rate of speed.

Ball lightning? Something.....else?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/mHSqRKmhQcs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


That was spectacular!
Posted via Mobile Device
 
I've seen ball lightning as a young child and posted about it some time back.
Scared the crap out of me.
 
Cover-up reply #1

You wrote:

As the old adage says: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"

So far I've seen nothing that meets that threshold, and certainly nothing to indicate there is some sort of vast cover up of the subject.

You also pasted this (excerpted) info in a reply:

....the case had been extensively investigated by a UFO researcher named Dr. James McDonald -- who had been one of the leading ufologists in the world in the 1960s. The "coverup" story seemed to be unraveling..

and a little later on in the same reply:

The photos were shortly taken by base military authorities and were never seen again by the men. In a session later that day, Bittick [was] informed that they had seen a weather balloon distorted by the desert atmospheric effects."

So here we have a story, apparently by Oberg, and thoughtfully provided by you that states that members of a crew, whose project manager was Gordon Cooper, encountered a UFO that was photographed approximately 30 times. It also states an opinion that "the 'coverup' story seemed to be unraveling.." then a few sentences later admits that the UFO photographs were taken by authorities never to be seen again. There were also given the old "you saw a weather balloon" story by Bittick, whoever he is, but I'm guessing he was an officer at Edwards AFB in charge of keeping it real.

Sounds like a cover up to me. I mean......somewhere between suspiciously similar and exactly like one. :shrug: Come to think of it you used the word "vast" before the word coverup so maybe this is just a smallish to medium-sized coverup and that was the important distinction to you.

I think it's probably a good idea to try to limit the scope of this discussion to a few particular incidents for the sake of not trying to cover the history of mankind in one thread and in that spirit I won't bring up the videos I have of all the old-timers who worked at Roswell in 1947 who uniformly state that there sure WAS a coverup going on and it was a big-un.

Do old-timers wanting to set the record straight before they die with the truth locked away inside them count for anything? Or is that just so much heresay? There are tons of them, but they could all be connected in some way....maybe they get free dentures if they follow the script.

No cover-ups..... Jesus, man....this is AMERICA. :shake:
 
OK, something was there.

But what?
No one knows or it wouldn't be a mystery.
So as I said, all we really know is that a red light was spotted and the missiles stopped working.
Anything else is simply speculation and not proven.

Exactly - something was there - seen by many of his security personnel. The effects were observed and reported on.

Just like the Phoenix lights - something in that case was observed by hundreds, maybe thousands, something so otherworldly (by our standards) the mayor of Phoenix - who witnessed it, knew he had to lie about it for years. He finally voiced what he really saw and felt in Leslie Kean's book.
 
Just like the Phoenix lights - something in that case was observed by hundreds, maybe thousands, something so otherworldly (by our standards) the mayor of Phoenix - who witnessed it, knew he had to lie about it for years. He finally voiced what he really saw and felt in Leslie Kean's book.

I know this wasn't intended for me, but it brings up something that I think is key in listening to public comments on the topic of UFOs. The first thing I try to consider is what are the consequences for the commenter? Somebody making a film or TV show or a UFO professional like Eric VonDaniken is going to play loose with facts in order to hype the product. Somebody like Fyfe Symington (former Phoenix mayor) or most politicians avoid the topic whenever possible or make light of it in order to preserve their jobs. It's career suicide, or maybe it used to be.

One of the reasons I brought astronauts into the discussion was because these guys are looked up-to to by most folks and generally respected as honored american heroes and because there is absolutely no incentive for them to mention the topic of UFOs publicly.

In fact, it's been somewhat of a sensational headache for every one of them who has spoken out about it, but......there are guys who went on the record. An extraordinary number of them when you consider the total number of astronauts around.

When I hear them talk I feel generally like I'm hearing from guys who want to tell the truth about what they've seen and experienced even if in telling their stories they are derided, doubted and discredited by some in the same american public they are trying to inform. Nothing to gain but a lot to lose and they told us things anyhow.

Context is key.
 
I know this wasn't intended for me, but it brings up something that I think is key in listening to public comments on the topic of UFOs. The first thing I try to consider is what are the consequences for the commenter? Somebody making a film or TV show or a UFO professional like Eric VonDaniken is going to play loose with facts in order to hype the product. Somebody like Fyfe Symington (former Phoenix mayor) or most politicians avoid the topic whenever possible or make light of it in order to preserve their jobs. It's career suicide, or maybe it used to be.

One of the reasons I brought astronauts into the discussion was because these guys are looked up-to to by most folks and generally respected as honored american heroes and because there is absolutely no incentive for them to mention the topic of UFOs publicly.

In fact, it's been somewhat of a sensational headache for every one of them who has spoken out about it, but......there are guys who went on the record. An extraordinary number of them when you consider the total number of astronauts around.

When I hear them talk I feel generally like I'm hearing from guys who want to tell the truth about what they've seen and experienced even if in telling their stories they are derided, doubted and discredited by some in the same american public they are trying to inform. Nothing to gain but a lot to lose and they told us things anyhow.

Context is key.

Excellent commentary and observations Hawg, very well put.

Here's another public person, the FAA's John Callahan, talking about the Japanese 747 incident he was involved with and the aftermath.

It essentially has the infamous classic ending - "this incident never took place, we never had this meeting."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdT_5eCZaRo
 
This has turned into an awesome thread!
Posted via Mobile Device
 
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/reB0yiXJ61Y" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
You wrote:



You also pasted this (excerpted) info in a reply:



and a little later on in the same reply:



So here we have a story, apparently by Oberg, and thoughtfully provided by you that states that members of a crew, whose project manager was Gordon Cooper, encountered a UFO that was photographed approximately 30 times. It also states an opinion that "the 'coverup' story seemed to be unraveling.." then a few sentences later admits that the UFO photographs were taken by authorities never to be seen again. There were also given the old "you saw a weather balloon" story by Bittick, whoever he is, but I'm guessing he was an officer at Edwards AFB in charge of keeping it real.

Sounds like a cover up to me. I mean......somewhere between suspiciously similar and exactly like one. :shrug: Come to think of it you used the word "vast" before the word coverup so maybe this is just a smallish to medium-sized coverup and that was the important distinction to you.

You said the photographs "were taken by authorities never to be seen again.".

That's not what the quote was. it said:

were shortly taken by base military authorities and were never seen again by the men.

That isn't the same thing at all.

If you go to the Oberg link, you'll find the following.

Now, in fact those photographs did not vanish after all: they had been sent to Project Blue Book, at Wright- Patterson AFB in Dayton, Ohio, per regulations (I even have talked to the officer who did the original Blue Book interviews, former Captain Hubert Davis, who had been greatly impressed with the witness's sincerity) . Years later the photos were pulled out of the retired Air Force files by UFO writers and investigators, as yet ignorant of the still-unpublished "Cooper connection". Two of the photos appear in Brad Steiger's paperback "Project Blue Book" (Ballantine, 1976) in the set of illustrations between pages 360 and 361. Wrote Steiger in the caption: "UFOs on target! Photos taken by United States military personnel" for case #4715, Edwards AFB, May 2 [sic!] 1957. But that case number did not appear on another list in Steiger's book, which included all "unsolved" cases. The Air Force must have found a satisfactory solution -- but what?




I think it's probably a good idea to try to limit the scope of this discussion to a few particular incidents for the sake of not trying to cover the history of mankind in one thread and in that spirit I won't bring up the videos I have of all the old-timers who worked at Roswell in 1947 who uniformly state that there sure WAS a coverup going on and it was a big-un.

As I said in an earlier post,I agree there was a coverup at Roswell, just not what was trying to be covered.

Project Mogul was a top secret program designed to detect the sound of the Soviets testing an A-bomb.

This was the late 40's, long before spy satellites or even the U-2. So the knowledge that we had some way of monitoring what the Soviets were doing would be considered a very important secret relating to national security.

So if one of those balloons crashed, the government most certainly would want to keep that under wraps.

The guys at Roswell wouldn't have known anything about Project Mogul, so they wouldn't know that they shouldn't invite the press in to take photos of the wreckage.

Once those photos went public, and the government realized what it was, you can be sure that they tried to make the story go away.
 
Exactly - something was there - seen by many of his security personnel. The effects were observed and reported on.

I agree something was there.

What?

Why do you leap to the conclusion that it's ET in a space craft?

What data do you have to rule out any other possibility?

Just like the Phoenix lights - something in that case was observed by hundreds, maybe thousands, something so otherworldly (by our standards) the mayor of Phoenix - who witnessed it, knew he had to lie about it for years. He finally voiced what he really saw and felt in Leslie Kean's book.

What exactly is "otherworldly" about this?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/KdIdDpJYSOM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
In an effort to better clarify my position, let's consider a completely different topic.

The Day Care Sex Abuse hysteria, that ran from the 80's into the 90's.

For those of you who don't recall, there multiple multiple cases where a day care facility was accused of child sexual abuse, often with allegations of Satanic rituals playing a role.

There were plenty of convictions, and the news reports of the day made this seem like an "epidemic".

In most, if not all, of these cases, the convictions were overturned and the charges revealed to be baseless.

So why were so many people charged with these horrific crimes?

A contributing factor is that people got the idea in their head that this was happening, and so they used that idea as a framework for the minor bits of evidence they had.

This is the same mental construct process I described before.

People believed that there was child sexual abuse, not because there was significant evidence to support that conclusion, but because they already had the meme of that abuse in their mind that they then hung the tiny bits of evidence upon it.

They then searched for any other evidence, and filtered all of that within the context of the conclusion they were predisposed to believe.

Margaret Talbot of the NY Times had this to say about the hysteria.

When you once believed something that now strikes you as absurd, even unhinged, it can be almost impossible to summon that feeling of credulity again. Maybe that is why it is easier for most of us to forget, rather than to try and explain, the Satanic-abuse scare that gripped this country in the early 80's — the myth that Devil-worshipers had set up shop in our day-care centers, where their clever adepts were raping and sodomizing children, practicing ritual sacrifice, shedding their clothes, drinking blood and eating feces, all unnoticed by parents, neighbors and the authorities

So how could so many people, accept such an "absurd" idea?

Were they stupid? Ignorant? Malicious? Mislead?

No, they were simply thinking the way all humans think, using the mental construct process I've described.

Most of the time this process works fine to help us understand and explain the world.

Most of the time,when the process "fails', and by fail I mean what someone "think they know" exceeds what they "know they know" and what they think isn't correct, the consequences are not that big a deal.

However, when these 'failures" occur in the legal system, then there can be significant problems.

The sex abuse cases are not the only example of when this type of "failure" have resulted in incorrect indictments and convictions, we can all find examples of others.

So we need to be aware of how people think and ask ourselves what do we "know we know" and what do we "think we know", when considering any question.

IMHO, the vast majority of the ET evidence is of the "think we know" variety.

The vast majority of the "know we know" evidence is precisely described by the acronym UFO.

It is "unidentified". That means we don't know what it is.

That doesn't mean that it has no explanation, but that the person making the observation doesn't know what it is.

IMHO, it is absurd to leap to the conclusion that because it is unknown, it must be ET in a spaceship.

It might be, then again, it might not.

As Pyxis pointed out, ball lightning is common near her. So if someone sees it, it isn't "unidentified" and so no big whoop.

For someone not familiar with it, they would likely have a Whisky Tango Foxtrot moment and it would be "unidentified".

So does that mean the second person would be justified to conclude they saw ET in a space craft?

If you say no, then why is it legitimate for any unexplained observation to be described as ET in a space craft?
 
Back
Top