I like that. Meanwhile, think of how great a CFer somebody like Jerry Rice would have been if he had chosen baseball instead of football...or how great a receiver JBJ might have been had he chosen football.
What's your GM philosophy?
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Hawg73
Mediocre with flashes of brilliance
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One aspect of Bill's drafting philosophy is that, allegedly, his concept for the 2nd round is to take a risk on getting a 1st round value by taking somebody with injury issues or
obvious flaws but 1st round traits. Too often, these have utterly failed with the occasional huge success, such as Gronkowski, but sometimes there is nothing wrong with taking a guy
who was extremely productive in college but doesn't have elite physical traits.
Sometimes you just want to grab Bill by the scruff of his neck and yell at him "Why did you take JoeJuan??? WHY?????" He was the 45th pick in the 2019 draft and has had to
dramatically improve over the course of three long years just to reach well below average. He simply cannot cover anybody and likely never will. I don't want to pick on JoeJuan, but
he's not even the worst of the 2nd round scrubs.
What were the 1st round traits that Bill found so desirable in him? He's tall, sure, but there is not a single thing about him that is remarkable beyond his measured height. He
isn't even able to use his length in any appreciable way. Every WR in the league is a mismatch for him. He's the world's tallest midget. Josh Allen knew that, but that's nothing
special. Everybody in the NFL can see it, but we are supposed to pretend until his rookie contract comes to a merciful end.
Granted it wasn't a great year for defensive backs, but you took a poor athlete from a 2nd tier school (Vanderbilt) and it's like fucking groundhog day. Same thing over and over.
Without ranting further, sometimes it is beneficial to take somebody that is good enough to line up on Sunday without getting targeted the second they do so. The world
needs ditch diggers, too. Take a really tough guy who maybe doesn't run great and at least he can hammer somebody once in a while.
If I was the Patriots GM I promise that there would be fewer valueless players on the roster and I would not protect my own reputation by hanging onto stiff draft choices way
longer than neccessary to ascertain they are, in fact, a stiff. In the case of JoeJuan and so many of his day two scrub club brethren it didn't take long.
obvious flaws but 1st round traits. Too often, these have utterly failed with the occasional huge success, such as Gronkowski, but sometimes there is nothing wrong with taking a guy
who was extremely productive in college but doesn't have elite physical traits.
Sometimes you just want to grab Bill by the scruff of his neck and yell at him "Why did you take JoeJuan??? WHY?????" He was the 45th pick in the 2019 draft and has had to
dramatically improve over the course of three long years just to reach well below average. He simply cannot cover anybody and likely never will. I don't want to pick on JoeJuan, but
he's not even the worst of the 2nd round scrubs.
What were the 1st round traits that Bill found so desirable in him? He's tall, sure, but there is not a single thing about him that is remarkable beyond his measured height. He
isn't even able to use his length in any appreciable way. Every WR in the league is a mismatch for him. He's the world's tallest midget. Josh Allen knew that, but that's nothing
special. Everybody in the NFL can see it, but we are supposed to pretend until his rookie contract comes to a merciful end.
Granted it wasn't a great year for defensive backs, but you took a poor athlete from a 2nd tier school (Vanderbilt) and it's like fucking groundhog day. Same thing over and over.
Without ranting further, sometimes it is beneficial to take somebody that is good enough to line up on Sunday without getting targeted the second they do so. The world
needs ditch diggers, too. Take a really tough guy who maybe doesn't run great and at least he can hammer somebody once in a while.
If I was the Patriots GM I promise that there would be fewer valueless players on the roster and I would not protect my own reputation by hanging onto stiff draft choices way
longer than neccessary to ascertain they are, in fact, a stiff. In the case of JoeJuan and so many of his day two scrub club brethren it didn't take long.
Quality rant!
i feel like the last line of this should be
"I'M MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE!"
also, i am sooooo bogarting "scrub club"!
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I know how to Bogart that joint, my friend, but I'm lost as to bogarting phrases.Quality rant!
i feel like the last line of this should be
"I'M MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE!"
also, i am sooooo bogarting "scrub club"!
Cheers,
Think there's been a trend lately of getting more dynamic players, such as Dugger, Uche, Baremore. Where in the past they were the "smarter than the average guy", like Jordan Richard, etc.
So that's a plus IMHO.
3 Point Stan
POW! Right in the kissah.
I've started to respond in this thread 3-4 times and it's pretty sobering how hard the job of a GM must be, because every time I start down the path, I realize I am wearing rose-colored glasses. So many scenarios...
Let's say the team had recently been blown up, the previous GM had drafted a blue chip QB, who just played in his rookie or 2nd season, and I am replacing that recently-fired GM. Everyone in this situation has to assess whether this QB is Josh Rosen, a good-but-not great QB like Derek Carr, or a potential generational QB. Unless it's obvious he is Josh Rosen, I have to assume GM's move ahead with the same plan of building around that QB (for better or worse).
In the draft, I'd probably look to build from the lines out, and then (in subsequent drafts) focus on the positions that would command the highest contracts once they reach free agency (edge, CB, LB's, WR - in that preferred order). If top options not available, take the best available player and fill in as best I can via FA.
The fork in the road comes when the QB's rookie contract is up. Is he elite, good-but-not-great, or Baker Mayfield? If he is better than Baker, my cap just shrunk. If he's Baker, we're rebuilding and I might actually be fired (even though I never drafter that player). And if I am not fired, I am probably a lame duck, like my predecessor.
Bottom line: Shopping for the groceries suuuuuuuucks!!!
Let's say the team had recently been blown up, the previous GM had drafted a blue chip QB, who just played in his rookie or 2nd season, and I am replacing that recently-fired GM. Everyone in this situation has to assess whether this QB is Josh Rosen, a good-but-not great QB like Derek Carr, or a potential generational QB. Unless it's obvious he is Josh Rosen, I have to assume GM's move ahead with the same plan of building around that QB (for better or worse).
In the draft, I'd probably look to build from the lines out, and then (in subsequent drafts) focus on the positions that would command the highest contracts once they reach free agency (edge, CB, LB's, WR - in that preferred order). If top options not available, take the best available player and fill in as best I can via FA.
The fork in the road comes when the QB's rookie contract is up. Is he elite, good-but-not-great, or Baker Mayfield? If he is better than Baker, my cap just shrunk. If he's Baker, we're rebuilding and I might actually be fired (even though I never drafter that player). And if I am not fired, I am probably a lame duck, like my predecessor.
Bottom line: Shopping for the groceries suuuuuuuucks!!!
Hawg73
Mediocre with flashes of brilliance
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Good post. Yes, it's very hard to juggle all the things you need to do to be a successful GM, but since I'll never be one, I enjoy the fantasy that I'm smarter than at least some of them based
on my peerless ability to make a correct snap judgement when one of them screws the pooch. It does happen now and then.
No better example of that could be found than the guy you mentioned-- Rosen.
I heard all the wrong stuff about him during the lead-up to the draft. He was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, was immature, argumentative and was said to be widely disliked by his teammates. He hired Aaron Rodgers to do an "image makeover" video with him to boost his stock which bugged me. He was pretty much the real-life version of Bo Callahan (from the film "Draft Day"). Then, I watched him on Gruden's QB Camp and Jon challenged him hard which resulted in a death-stare from Rosen and an uncomfortable pall descended on the interview. Gruden saw right through his bullshit and I thought "there's a kid that no NFL veteran is going to play with". I wouldn't have had him on my draft board, period.
Everybody agreed he threw a beautiful ball with a sweet release, but nobody really reckoned that those passes would hum just as nicely regardless of which team was catching them. All anybody thought about was the arm, which I think is stupid. His decision-making was as bad as you'll ever see.
When Arizona drafted him 10th overall in 2018 I laughed, but even I never expected he'd be quite as bad as he is. He played for 4 teams in 4 years and I think his last NFL pass was a pick 6 to
Kyle Van Noy. Yet dozens of dozens of scouts and GMs looked at this guy as a great prospect.
OTOH, I watched Mahomes exactly once at Texas Tech and thought he was one of the worst QBs I'd ever seen (in my defense he threw 5 picks that day), so.....what do I know about QBs?
i fell in LOVE with mahomes( personality, leadership. etc.) on his gruden show. i hope gruden goes back to those. they were ALL must watches.
Timely article from TheRinger on the trend of GMs going after mercenary QBs (Brady then Stafford) to take teams to the Lombardi trophy.
More of this will be seen in the near future since Denver, Washington, the Eagles and the Dolphins are good teams waiting for a QB.
www.theringer.com
...when every other team zigs, there’s value in zagging. We’re seeing the zag in the quarterback market unfold before us: It’s now the veteran quarterback market. The Buccaneers grabbed Brady in free agency and immediately won a Super Bowl; the Rams disposed of their rookie contract cheat code in Goff, who had since received a huge extension, and acquired Matthew Stafford from the Lions. Super Bowl for them, too.
It’s easy to track the falling dominos. Teams with rookie quarterbacks get cap space. They use that cap space to sign good, proven, veteran players. When they hit on those signings, they make playoff runs—but, unless their rookie contract quarterback is Russell Wilson, they struggle to survive once that rookie contract runs out. Once they get to the end of those rookie quarterback contracts, they’re faced with a daunting reality: The rest of their team is good. Really good. Maybe even Super Bowl good.
They just need to improve at one position: quarterback.
So the Bucs moved from Winston to Brady. Homegrown talent was a big part of their success, of course—their Lombardi run wouldn’t have been possible if they hadn’t hit on Tristan Wirfs and Antoine Winfield Jr. in the same draft. But the offensive line was shored up with deals for Donovan Smith and Ryan Jensen; the defensive front was reimagined with deals for Jason Pierre-Paul, Ndamukong Suh, and Shaquill Barrett. The Rams did less in free agency and more in trades (acquiring Von Miller and Jalen Ramsey) while also doling out huge extensions to key players Ramsey, Aaron Donald, and Leonard Floyd.
Super Bowl wins will always take everything falling right: a good quarterback, good free-agent signings, good draft picks, and a whole lot of luck. But the late addition of the mercenary quarterback flips the team building order on its head. Instead of being bad enough to get a rookie quarterback, building the whole team for him, and trying to win in his rookie window, teams instead can draft a rookie quarterback, build a really good team around him with the extra money he affords them, and then plug a different quarterback into that environment if the rookie seems insufficient.
We can see teams lining up those dominos as we speak. The Broncos are the clearest example. Denver has tons of early drafted weapons on offense, an offensive line riddled with solid veterans, and a young defense that’s a star or two away from being elite. They also have had cheap players at quarterback in the past couple years, and with the hiring of former Packers OC Nathaniel Hackett, are positioned for a strong run at Aaron Rodgers. Why wouldn’t Denver commit themselves to this build? They were one of the first beneficiaries of a veteran quarterback changing teams in the early 2010s, when Peyton Manning’s neck injury put him on the market and gave Denver an immediate upgrade to a stacked roster that could drag Tim Tebow to the playoffs, but no further.
Washington is on the same precipice. If the Dolphins fix their offensive line, they’re there. The Panthers were there, and then got greedy thinking they could rehabilitate Sam Darnold. The Steelers didn’t have the advantage of a rookie contract quarterback, as they endured the final legs of Ben Roethlisberger’s career—but great cap management and drafting from GM Kevin Colbert has built a playoff roster with the 11th-most 2022 cap space in the league. The Eagles and the Lions are on their way, and both teams represent a critical link in this chain of quarterback movement: the dead cap hits. Of the five biggest single dead cap hits in NFL history, three came last season, and all three were quarterbacks involved in trades.
More of this will be seen in the near future since Denver, Washington, the Eagles and the Dolphins are good teams waiting for a QB.
The New Path to a Super Bowl
The last two Lombardi Trophies have been won by teams with veteran quarterbacks in their first seasons with a new franchise. What effect will the 2020 Buccaneers and 2021 Rams have on team-building around the NFL?
www.theringer.com
...when every other team zigs, there’s value in zagging. We’re seeing the zag in the quarterback market unfold before us: It’s now the veteran quarterback market. The Buccaneers grabbed Brady in free agency and immediately won a Super Bowl; the Rams disposed of their rookie contract cheat code in Goff, who had since received a huge extension, and acquired Matthew Stafford from the Lions. Super Bowl for them, too.
It’s easy to track the falling dominos. Teams with rookie quarterbacks get cap space. They use that cap space to sign good, proven, veteran players. When they hit on those signings, they make playoff runs—but, unless their rookie contract quarterback is Russell Wilson, they struggle to survive once that rookie contract runs out. Once they get to the end of those rookie quarterback contracts, they’re faced with a daunting reality: The rest of their team is good. Really good. Maybe even Super Bowl good.
They just need to improve at one position: quarterback.
So the Bucs moved from Winston to Brady. Homegrown talent was a big part of their success, of course—their Lombardi run wouldn’t have been possible if they hadn’t hit on Tristan Wirfs and Antoine Winfield Jr. in the same draft. But the offensive line was shored up with deals for Donovan Smith and Ryan Jensen; the defensive front was reimagined with deals for Jason Pierre-Paul, Ndamukong Suh, and Shaquill Barrett. The Rams did less in free agency and more in trades (acquiring Von Miller and Jalen Ramsey) while also doling out huge extensions to key players Ramsey, Aaron Donald, and Leonard Floyd.
Super Bowl wins will always take everything falling right: a good quarterback, good free-agent signings, good draft picks, and a whole lot of luck. But the late addition of the mercenary quarterback flips the team building order on its head. Instead of being bad enough to get a rookie quarterback, building the whole team for him, and trying to win in his rookie window, teams instead can draft a rookie quarterback, build a really good team around him with the extra money he affords them, and then plug a different quarterback into that environment if the rookie seems insufficient.
We can see teams lining up those dominos as we speak. The Broncos are the clearest example. Denver has tons of early drafted weapons on offense, an offensive line riddled with solid veterans, and a young defense that’s a star or two away from being elite. They also have had cheap players at quarterback in the past couple years, and with the hiring of former Packers OC Nathaniel Hackett, are positioned for a strong run at Aaron Rodgers. Why wouldn’t Denver commit themselves to this build? They were one of the first beneficiaries of a veteran quarterback changing teams in the early 2010s, when Peyton Manning’s neck injury put him on the market and gave Denver an immediate upgrade to a stacked roster that could drag Tim Tebow to the playoffs, but no further.
Washington is on the same precipice. If the Dolphins fix their offensive line, they’re there. The Panthers were there, and then got greedy thinking they could rehabilitate Sam Darnold. The Steelers didn’t have the advantage of a rookie contract quarterback, as they endured the final legs of Ben Roethlisberger’s career—but great cap management and drafting from GM Kevin Colbert has built a playoff roster with the 11th-most 2022 cap space in the league. The Eagles and the Lions are on their way, and both teams represent a critical link in this chain of quarterback movement: the dead cap hits. Of the five biggest single dead cap hits in NFL history, three came last season, and all three were quarterbacks involved in trades.