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shasta said:
He's one of the top 10 CB's in NFL who would come in and easily be the best player we have in the secondary. Yes that's worth a 2nd round pick, or maybe I should name off some of the second round picks we have had over the last five years? Or better yet, if you feel like something to eat, there's a good chance you could meet up with one of them working the local drive through window.
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No. He's nowhere near that good. You're out of your mind if you think that he's a top 10 CB.
 
midgar8784 said:
Yeah its true...we do not need gamblers who are aggressive. We need guys that hang back 20 yards and let the receiver catch it underneath and hope we make the tackle so they only get first down after first down instead of something big all at once....that works well.
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I agree, I would rather a guy get beat trying to make a play than sitting 10 yard s off the wr waiting to through themselves at the ground. Samuel "MAKES PLAYS & TURNS THE BALL OVER" anyone that thinks he wouldn't be the best CB on this team hasn't been watching the same team I have.
 
PatsFan09 said:
No. He's nowhere near that good. You're out of your mind if you think that he's a top 10 CB.
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There aren't that many good CB's in the league right now but his exact place dosen't matter, the point is he would easily be the best CB on the PAts by a wide margin.
 
shasta said:
There aren't that many good CB's in the league right now but his exact place dosen't matter, the point is he would easily be the best CB on the PAts by a wide margin.
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On what are you basing this other than his production 4+ years ago? I mean, show me something, anything, that supports the idea that Samuel, known for his gambling, pulling safeties out of position, and lack of tackling is at all better than McCourty or Arrington (who, I don't know if you noticed, was at the top of the league in INT's most of last year), both of whom actually tackle people. Remember how Ellis Hobbs used to get torched because he was man up when he was supposed to have help? Assante's been so worthless in Philly they went out and actively added 2 new CB's to completely phase him out of anything but the nickle corner position (which he refuses to play). It isn't about money, it's about his lack of production! If good CBs are so hard to find, why is Philly to willing to part with him?
 
Grumpy_Bottom said:
On what are you basing this other than his production 4+ years ago? I mean, show me something, anything, that supports the idea that Samuel, known for his gambling, pulling safeties out of position, and lack of tackling is at all better than McCourty or Arrington (who, I don't know if you noticed, was at the top of the league in INT's most of last year), both of whom actually tackle people. Remember how Ellis Hobbs used to get torched because he was man up when he was supposed to have help? Assante's been so worthless in Philly they went out and actively added 2 new CB's to completely phase him out of anything but the nickle corner position (which he refuses to play). It isn't about money, it's about his lack of production! If good CBs are so hard to find, why is Philly to willing to part with him?
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How about this for a start, WAS SAMUEL PART OF THE WORST SECONDARY IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL?
 
shasta said:
How about this for a start, WAS SAMUEL PART OF THE WORST SECONDARY IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL?
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I don't know, but his secondary wasn't good enough to get his team into the playoffs. He also didn't play as well as Arrington did last year, and one could argue whether he played any better than McCourty (who had a bad year).
 
So...the only difference between these two situations in 42 & 46 is in 42, Asante freelanced and Rodney couldn't quite clean up his mess. In 46, at least the safety AND the CB were right on Manningham. If Asante were there, how much you wanna bet he tries to guess EM would go to Cruz or Nicks anyway and wanders over there leaving Chung to hold the bag? I've never liked his mindset/style of play. The 6 or so big plays he makes per year aren't worth the headache of freelancing to me. A freelancer in last year's secondary would have run the odometer past 10 digits.
 
HSanders said:
So...the only difference between these two situations in 42 & 46 is in 42, Asante freelanced and Rodney couldn't quite clean up his mess. In 46, at least the safety AND the CB were right on Manningham. If Asante were there, how much you wanna bet he tries to guess EM would go to Cruz or Nicks anyway and wanders over there leaving Chung to hold the bag? I've never liked his mindset/style of play. The 6 or so big plays he makes per year aren't worth the headache of freelancing to me. A freelancer in last year's secondary would have run the odometer past 10 digits.
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I believe that's why they cut Meriweather, as well.
 
HSanders said:
So...the only difference between these two situations in 42 & 46 is in 42, Asante freelanced and Rodney couldn't quite clean up his mess. In 46, at least the safety AND the CB were right on Manningham. If Asante were there, how much you wanna bet he tries to guess EM would go to Cruz or Nicks anyway and wanders over there leaving Chung to hold the bag? I've never liked his mindset/style of play. The 6 or so big plays he makes per year aren't worth the headache of freelancing to me. A freelancer in last year's secondary would have run the odometer past 10 digits.
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You mean it would have rolled over the figurative "big bang clock" on the car?
 
Grumpy_Bottom said:
On what are you basing this other than his production 4+ years ago? I mean, show me something, anything, that supports the idea that Samuel, known for his gambling, pulling safeties out of position, and lack of tackling is at all better than McCourty or Arrington (who, I don't know if you noticed, was at the top of the league in INT's most of last year), both of whom actually tackle people. Remember how Ellis Hobbs used to get torched because he was man up when he was supposed to have help? Assante's been so worthless in Philly they went out and actively added 2 new CB's to completely phase him out of anything but the nickle corner position (which he refuses to play). It isn't about money, it's about his lack of production! If good CBs are so hard to find, why is Philly to willing to part with him?
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Well...does he get beat over and over by average wideouts that can go down the field at will? Because that is what we have.
 
dchester said:
I don't know, but his secondary wasn't good enough to get his team into the playoffs. He also didn't play as well as Arrington did last year, and one could argue whether he played any better than McCourty (who had a bad year).
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Our secondary was not good enough to get us to the playoffs, luckily we had a good offense. Did you guys all forget last year or something, its like I am in the twilight zone.
 
midgar8784 said:
Our secondary was not good enough to get us to the playoffs, luckily we had a good offense. Did you guys all forget last year or something, its like I am in the twilight zone.
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With your line of thinking,the offense owes the defense two SB trophies (01 & 03...in 04 the O was fantastic). It is 0/2 so far (42 & 46). Without the "not good enough" secondary in the AFCC the Pats wouldn't have even MADE the SB.
It is my sincere, 100% belief that Asante would not have made EITHER play that Sterling Moore did at the end of the game. Because Sterling did (GASP) what he was coached to do.
 
HSanders said:
With your line of thinking,the offense owes the defense two SB trophies (01 & 03...in 04 the O was fantastic). It is 0/2 so far (42 & 46). Without the "not good enough" secondary in the AFCC the Pats wouldn't have even MADE the SB.
It is my sincere, 100% belief that Asante would not have made EITHER play that Sterling Moore did at the end of the game. Because Sterling did (GASP) what he was coached to do.
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Probably, Although I cannot think of when our offense was 31st in the league, and the O did kinda come through in the 03 superbowl when our D decided to stop covering long passes.
 
I don't go by yards to rank how good O & D units are but I agree with you that the Pats O was never 31st in yards in any of those years.
The GW drive at the end of SB 36>>>>>38. Kasay gave the Pats a short field in 38 and by then TB was TFB. In 01 he was still TB, magnitude greater for him then.
 
HSanders said:
I don't go by yards to rank how good O & D units are but I agree with you that the Pats O was never 31st in yards in any of those years.
The GW drive at the end of SB 36>>>>>38. Kasay gave the Pats a short field in 38 and by then TB was TFB. In 01 he was still TB, magnitude greater for him then.
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We got a short field but we also got a offensive pass interference which drove them back 10 yards, so it was not as short as you think. In the past 10 years, offense has never really been a big issue...we have had some issues in the run game here and there and we have been through quite a bit of receivers, but they have gradually replaced that rather than all at once thing they did with the defense from 07-09...which threw a lot of young guys out there and we lost a lot of leaders on defense...we still have a leader on offense so its been a bit smoother to replace players there. I mean you can throw out a game here and there as when the defense did well, but as a whole, it was not near where Bill wants it to be...they show up at times and do really well, but then they have long periods where it seems we really need a big turnover or 3 and out and its tough.

As far as going by rankings in points and not yards, thats fine, but when you give up a lot of yards you still hurt the team....it takes time away from your offense, and it lets teams dictate the game...The whole idea of the defense is to get the other team off the field as fast as possible, so while you might hold them to a fg, you still let them have a 7 or 8 minute drive, thats not good. Last year the pats were last in average yards given up per drive, on offense they were number one in average yards per drive....we need to get those two numbers closer together.
 
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