Preseason Game 2 - Pats vs Eagles Aug. 19, Thurs. 7:30PM

Okay, so here's what I'm puzzling in my little Flagg-head.

Can we assume that barring something pretty catastrophic Mac is the future QB of this team, and that Bill, Josh, etc. know this and are planning around it? I mean, I suppose if Cam suddenly starts getting the ball out right at the end of his drops, if his accuracy suddenly blossoms into command/precision, that sort of thing, it's a totally different conversation. But even in that case we'd still be looking at Mac as QB1 no later than 2022 - because Cam would suddenly be cost prohibitive after a year like that.

Can we also agree that while there's room for some disagreement around the margins, the two QBs seem to be playing more or less comparably thus far?

If both those things are true, what are you gaining (strictly in terms of the 2021 team) by playing Cam? If he's on a short leash, aren't you just counting on him failing and waiting for that to happen? Aren't you essentially assuring yourself of a split locker room, as any given performance will be evaluated by how close to The Cammac Line Cam's performance that day was? Going this route you're assuming either 1) that Cam gives you the best chance to win all year, OR 2) that he will fail at some point to a degree which provides you cover for making the switch to where you want to be, with Mac Jones taking over as QB1.

If you're assuming #2, isn't it better to avoid the split locker room, and the weekly drama of The Cammac Line analysis and start Mac from Week 1? Because you're assuming that you're going to be taking your lumps either way with #2, right? Once the season starts, there's no good way to get Mac good reps or get him in better sync with the starters - you'll need all that practice time for Cam if he's going to be successful. So wouldn't you be better off committing to him as early as possible?

So the only reason I can see that Bill would want Cam to start is because he's assuming #1 above - that Cam gives the Patriots the best chance to win all year. The only alternative I see is that he's willing to just take whatever comes this year as gravy, and he's trying to maximize Mac's effectiveness starting NEXT year. And while I appreciate that Bill plays the long game, I can't reconcile him doing anything that gives him a reduced chance to win any game - and certainly not taking that attitude towards a whole season - with what we know of his personality and outlook.

Maybe...maybe he's just waiting for Cam to get dinged up enough to provide him with the cover he needs to make the switch? Not hoping, but well aware of the likelihood that Cam's style of play will inevitably result in him needing to sit and recover, and that will be Mac's launch point? With the obvious benefit that if Mac is balling he keeps the job, but if he's struggling or needs a little more time Cam coming back provides that cover without damaging Mac's psyche.

I don't know. It's a tricky position to be in, especially given Cam's apparent status/standing in the locker room - there was even discussion that Cam being here influenced some of the FAs we were able to land in the offseason. I just think that the "Cam on a short leash" plan is assuming failure that "allows" for the change to Mac, which seems odd and essentially takes valuable reps away from Mac, potentially damaging both QBs.
Yeah wondering the same. Only thing I can come up with is. Cam=cheap Jones rookie, not ready for big stage, etc etc. Other then that, dont know. Someone mentioned that, say they start jones, and he is just awful, so they put cam in, that could hurt his confidence. If Cam is awful, and they put Jones in, well whatever to cam's confidence I guess. I am sure there is a method to the madness. Do I think Bill thinks Cam is the man and superbowl here we come? No, or Jones I doubt is drafted. As far as locker room, locker room is good when you win. So if Jones comes in and wins, I am sure the locker room will survive.
 
That being said, I agree with Hawg in that Jones is a rookie and Cam is in his second year and Bill has treated Cam very differently than he has treated his past QBs. He knows Cam is a player that needs praise and has to have his tires pumped even when he plays poorly. So benching him is a delicate situation.
How has BB treated Cam differently than other veteran QBs he brought in to start?

What deo you based what BB knows on? Wherever did you get the idea that Cam needs constant praise? If you think BB is worried aobut what players feel, you are so far off base it isn't funny.

Benching Cam is a delicate situation not because BB is afraid how Cam will react--he deliberately puts players in unfavorable positins all the time to see how they react--but because once you demote a starting QB you forever change the dynamic, not so much for Cam but for the rookie. Bench a rookie and you destroy his confidence and creativity. Try to put him back in later and the chances are very high he is tentative in situations that cost him his job.
 
Bench a rookie and you destroy his confidence and creativity. Try to put him back in later and the chances are very high he is tentative in situations that cost him his job.
Does Mac strike you as a mentally weak player?

Tua was just fine last year getting benched and then coming back to start the next game.
 
How has BB treated Cam differently than other veteran QBs he brought in to start?

What deo you based what BB knows on? Wherever did you get the idea that Cam needs constant praise? If you think BB is worried aobut what players feel, you are so far off base it isn't funny.

Benching Cam is a delicate situation not because BB is afraid how Cam will react--he deliberately puts players in unfavorable positins all the time to see how they react--but because once you demote a starting QB you forever change the dynamic, not so much for Cam but for the rookie. Bench a rookie and you destroy his confidence and creativity. Try to put him back in later and the chances are very high he is tentative in situations that cost him his job.
Then wouldnt benching Jones be the delicate situation? Or are you saying If he benches Cam then he might have to Bench Jones afterwards? If BB actually benches Cam, barring injury I cannot see how he would then bench the rookie later.
 
How has BB treated Cam differently than other veteran QBs he brought in to start?

What deo you based what BB knows on? Wherever did you get the idea that Cam needs constant praise? If you think BB is worried aobut what players feel, you are so far off base it isn't funny.

Benching Cam is a delicate situation not because BB is afraid how Cam will react--he deliberately puts players in unfavorable positins all the time to see how they react--but because once you demote a starting QB you forever change the dynamic, not so much for Cam but for the rookie. Bench a rookie and you destroy his confidence and creativity. Try to put him back in later and the chances are very high he is tentative in situations that cost him his job.
BB absolutely has favored sCam...not sure why you can't see this. Some players need that apparently though. Ochostinko was another player that BB coddled along. Mazz is correct on this. Put Harry on this list too.
 
BB absolutely has favored sCam...not sure why you can't see this. Some players need that apparently though.
Evidently so. Mazz sure keeps telling us Brady needed to be coddled and left when BB refused to let him run the team. I didn't see it and don't see it with Cam, but whatever.
 
Evidently so. Mazz sure keeps telling us Brady needed to be coddled and left when BB refused to let him run the team. I didn't see it and don't see it with Cam, but whatever.
Almost forgot about Josh Gordon. He was another coddled player.
 
….
How?

He was cut the moment that another suspension was about to happen.


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BB gave him every possible chance imaginable. They favored Gordon over all of the other wr's sans Edelman.

Also, AB too.
 
Evidently so. Mazz sure keeps telling us Brady needed to be coddled and left when BB refused to let him run the team. I didn't see it and don't see it with Cam, but whatever.
When did Mazz say that? When did Brady ask to run the team?
 
This is EXACTLY the reason why BB can take on the "disgruntled players" for the most part and guide them into what is possible (MOST of the time). I'm NOT joking. BB is brilliant at what he does. Way more than just a coach. A successful life coach would be the better term. When I say "coddle", I don't mean that to be a bad word either. Coddle isn't even the right word, but, it's in that same mold though. It's most likely in the psychology dictionary though. BB knows how to figure out most of his players AND most of his competition.

Just another way that BB is the GOAT. It's way beyond X's and O's.
 
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I know, right? I'm not even sure if I believe my own bullshit sometimes.

I still see warning signs with Cam that maybe the better weapons aren't really going to help. That he HAS lost his confidence or still isn't comfortable with all the sight reads required
in our system. That would explain why he seems to hesitate in pulling the trigger.

There are tons of dynamics at play here. To me, it's the most fascinating competition for one position the Pats have ever had including Brady/Bledsoe.

The only thing I know for sure is that it'd be better for the Pats if they both play well and make our air game competitive and I'm willing to look at Jones as sort of a pocket ace that will only
get better the longer the game goes.

I'm not concerned about 2022, but the best case scenario is that Cam does really well, his mojo is revived and he earns a decent contract elsewhere. Another successful Patriot rehab and everything is good. I view him as a one-season placeholder at best. I have to start seeing him set and fire like he really gets it or even that expectation seems unrealistic.

I think if Cam starts the season he'll be constantly looking over his shoulder at Mac. Not ideal. It might even contribute to the "Cam failing" scenario. Sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Add to that the issue Flagg brought up about Mac won't be getting reps in practice if Cam is projected to start that week.

I think the best thing for everyone: Mac, Cam, the lockerroom, etc. is to release Cam before the season starts. If Mac comes back down to earth or gets hurt, that sucks, but it is what it is. I don't think Cam could come in and save the season if that happened. And I'm not sure it's worth the possible division in the lockerroom just to keep him for that possibility.
 
I think if Cam starts the season he'll be constantly looking over his shoulder at Mac. Not ideal. It might even contribute to the "Cam failing" scenario. Sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Add to that the issue Flagg brought up about Mac won't be getting reps in practice if Cam is projected to start that week.

I think the best thing for everyone: Mac, Cam, the lockerroom, etc. is to release Cam before the season starts. If Mac comes back down to earth or gets hurt, that sucks, but it is what it is. I don't think Cam could come in and save the season if that happened. And I'm not sure it's worth the possible division in the lockerroom just to keep him for that possibility.
I prefer that BB just creates a niche in where sCam can be amazing at...while NOT become the starting qb. Somewhat like a hybrid Taysom Hill role. Obviously, sCam isn't exactly like Taysom Hill, but, a role in that direction. A hybrid QB/TE/FB/red zone weapon.

Best of both world's.
 
Seems a long shot to me, BSF.
How many trick plays are out there where Cam could be utilized? How many plays in a season? It wouldn't take teams long to catch on. And he's not a blocker - no way.
Cam has spent his entire football career training from the pov of the QB position to distribute the ball. Paradigm shift for him.
H Back may be a distant possibility but it seems a waste when we have Jonnu Smith who can (hopefully) do it better. Can Cam catch when running a legit route?
Look what happened to Tebow when he tried to become an H Back. Bad. Fish out of water.
I don't envision much opportunity there.
 
Seems a long shot to me, BSF.
How many trick plays are out there where Cam could be utilized? How many plays in a season? It wouldn't take teams long to catch on. And he's not a blocker - no way.
Cam has spent his entire football career training from the pov of the QB position to distribute the ball. Paradigm shift for him.
H Back may be a distant possibility but it seems a waste when we have Jonnu Smith who can (hopefully) do it better. Can Cam catch when running a legit route?
Look what happened to Tebow when he tried to become an H Back. Bad. Fish out of water.
I don't envision much opportunity there.
Well, Big Mac is the future..so, not a yuge loss imo.
 
I think it’s a near certainty that Bill starts the season with Cam and then it will be a case of when not if Mac leapfrogs him and becomes the starter. That will happen quickly enough I think if Cam really shows zero improvement on last season. Bill is not going to stick with him if we’re losing games or the offense shows no improvement.
 
I don't hate sCam (I really don't). If he's on the Pats, I want him to ball out and be amazing. But, I just have a feeling that he's just going to be the same as last year. I hope that I'm wrong about him though, if he starts.
 
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